Vondy Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I'm working on a moderately hard science-fiction setting set in the solar system with the caveat that the earth is suddenly not a major player and its colonies are left to survive with their umbilical to the sustaining mother-world cut. This period would be called "the great silence" or "the birthing." I haven't decided exactly why the earth has fallen silent, yet. I'm pondering apocalyptic scenarios to consider which serves my purposes best. But, I did run across a bizarre, out-there scenario that made me laugh and consider impact all at once. I'm 99% certain I won't use this one, but... Quantum Vacuum Collapse Inevitability This one’s simple enough, scientists will destroy the universe. I’m sure you’ve all heard of the Large Hadron Collider. It was in the news last year and was deemed a doomsday device because theorists said that it could destroy the planet. Well they’re wrong, because it could in theory, destroy the entire universe. In quantum physics it is predicted that the universe is filled with something called vacuum energy. Now think of this energy as gunpowder. It’s ready to explode, all you need is a fuse. So scientists built the Large Hadron Collider. They have recently fixed the LHC. One day during a collision experiment, the use of specific elements could trigger the quantum vacuum collapse. Less than a second later the Earth will be wiped out. It’s just gone without a trace. Now a wave of destruction is spreading out through the universe at the speed of light destroying everything in its path. Nothing will stop it until the universe is completely gone. Scientists argue that elements smash into each other in nature all the time, and that the universe is still here so there is no risk of this catastrophe. But what they fail to realize is that the particles they use in the collider are rare. Such as gold. Or they play about with elements that are so unstable they don’t exist in ‘nature’. Who knows what will happen with those ones. So, here's what I'm wondering about. Let's assume we have a localized quantum vacuum collapse that causes the earth, but not the rest of the solar system, to go "poof" and disappear? I know that means the lagrange points are no longer stable points of gravity and the colonies there would float away. Maybe, in theory, if they have positioning thrusters, they could reorient a slow course into a distant orbit, but most would probably be toast. But what about the moon. Is it going to fall into earth's old orbit? Is it going to become a satellite of a larger planet? Or is it going to spin wildly out of the solar system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? There's some fun articles out there on it. Basically in relation to the old "The Moon orbits around the Sun More then it does the Earth!" discussions. The Universe Today article here has a few brainy links in it as well for the rest of the questions.... http://www.universetoday.com/20293/does-the-moon-orbit-the-sun/.... So in a sense, unless there was some significant force involved to shove the moon somewhere (which would do bad things to the moon), it would just start cruising around the Sun directly most likely..... I'm sure one of the brainy people will sound off on it. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Wouldn't the Moon's fate in such a scenario depend on where in its orbit cycle it was when the Earth vanished? If it was heading directly away or towards the Sun, wouldn't it keep going in that direction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Just doing some quick-and-dirty figures (IOW, they might be wrong), the combined Earth-Moon system orbits the Sun at an average of roughly 30kps. The Moon orbits the Earth at roughly 1kps. (Relative to Earth.) So yeah, I'm with Rex on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? I'm not really one of the brainy people, but applying high school physics to it Centripetal Force = mass * velocity^2/ radius with the force being supplied by gravity with its formula of Gravitational Force = Gravitation constant * mass1 * mass2/ radius^2 Set these two equations equal to and the mass of the orbiting object cancels out, so it does not appear that changing the mass from that of the earth plus the moon to just that of the moon would mater with respect to the orbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Wouldn't the Moon's fate in such a scenario depend on where in its orbit cycle it was when the Earth vanished? If it was heading directly away or towards the Sun' date=' wouldn't it keep going in that direction?[/quote'] Nah, doesn't really work that way due to relative velocity/mass and things like that (not to mention the old Gravity/Space Deformed because of Mass stuff). Some good SF out there for it not to mention you can follow the brainy links around all over the interwebz on that first link I tossed out there. Reminds me just in case you want to scale it out for minatures use... http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/solar_system/ ~Rex....lota fun space stuff out there..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? That quantum collapse scenario destroys the whole Universe in a picosecond, not just a measly planet. That's how the next Big Bang gets started. But yes, the Moon ends up in sort of the same orbit around the Sun as it had before Earth went bye-bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Does bring up some interesting Ideas of how to get rid of the Earth without having to wipe out the rest of the universe in a pico second. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Wouldn't the Moon's fate in such a scenario depend on where in its orbit cycle it was when the Earth vanished? If it was heading directly away or towards the Sun' date=' wouldn't it keep going in that direction?[/quote']The moon never actually goes directly towards the sun, but the eccentricity of the moons orbit would probably be affected by where in its orbit around the earth it was when the earth went poof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Yeah but much like spinning a coin across one of those Gravity Well things you see in places, it would settle out into a stable path fairly quickly. My own long term Star Hero game uses a "Earth Went Poof the rest of us are on our Own!!!" set up but in a far different fashion. Still a fun concept for a harder SF kinda game though. Let's hear more! ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Isn't there a conservation of angular momentum issue? I'm guessing that the Moon's rotation rate increases significantly, although I'll be darned if I can dredge up enough mechanics to picture the mechanism of transfer. Lagrange colonies will similarly end up in solar orbit, although if I'm right about the conservation issue, will suffer more significant structural events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Just to throw in another factor: would colonies on the moon survive the tidal forces of the adjustment? And, if the moon has colonies in its own orbit, would they simply follow its path, or fall away or be ripped apart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Just to throw in another factor: would colonies on the moon survive the tidal forces of the adjustment? Actually, it would be the cessation of tidal forces, and I expect the answer is trivially yes, they'd survive. Now, if they were dependent upon a continuous signal feed from Earth or low Earth orbit, they would be in trouble in a different way... And, if the moon has colonies in its own orbit, would they simply follow its path, or fall away or be ripped apart? If they are in close orbits, they would be largely unaffected. But further out, things are more complex, and those would be lost and go into their own solar orbits too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Always good to have smart people like Cancer in the threads, heh, so anything in Orbit should follow what it's orbiting, provided it's not to far out and dependant on other facotors. Looking at the tidal forces stuff out there on the interwebz, best layman's guess is a good sized moon quake when the bulge settles could be some game fun, then not much else since the moon really isn't that tectonically active, though one could SF that as a change, especially working in things like not being tidally locked to the Earth anymore. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Actually' date=' it would be the [u']cessation[/u] of tidal forces, and I expect the answer is trivially yes, they'd survive. Now, if they were dependent upon a continuous signal feed from Earth or low Earth orbit, they would be in trouble in a different way... If they are in close orbits, they would be largely unaffected. But further out, things are more complex, and those would be lost and go into their own solar orbits too. Thank you! Of course, I'm not sure I want a science fiction setting predicated on "whoops!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Heh, there's been some pretty solid SF predicated on "Whoops!" David Brin's Earth comes to mind. ~Rex....same for things like, Stephen Baxter's Moon Seed for example which would make the Earth go Poof.....Even puts a better atmosphere on the moon in that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Thank you! Of course, I'm not sure I want a science fiction setting predicated on "whoops!" Mind you, if the Earth did just instantaneously vanish, the colonies wouldn't necessarily know what the "oops" was, or even if there was one. And once they do, it need not be one that outright destroys the Earth. Perhaps an experiment to access theoretical hyperspace accidentally drew the Earth into it. Attempts to locate the planet, maybe even return it this space, could become a major plotline. As might something coming out of hyperspace when the Earth fell through... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Mind you, if the Earth did just instantaneously vanish, the colonies wouldn't necessarily know what the "oops" was, or even if there was one. And once they do, it need not be one that outright destroys the Earth. Perhaps an experiment to access theoretical hyperspace accidentally drew the Earth into it. Attempts to locate the planet, maybe even return it this space, could become a major plotline. As might something coming out of hyperspace when the Earth fell through... Of course, I can see the inhabitants of the moon, now sitting in earth's orbit, having discovered they now share quantum bi-location with the Earth, saying... "Maybe we'd better leave it where it is." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Actually' date=' it would be the [u']cessation[/u] of tidal forces, and I expect the answer is trivially yes, they'd survive. Now, if they were dependent upon a continuous signal feed from Earth or low Earth orbit, they would be in trouble in a different way... If they are in close orbits, they would be largely unaffected. But further out, things are more complex, and those would be lost and go into their own solar orbits too. A cessation of title forces isn't going to go unnoticed. It is kind of like take taking a rubber band that you have been stretch and then relaxing a bit and suddenly letting go of it all together. There is going to be a snap. The moon is in orbit around the sun first and the earth second, but it is still in orbit around the moon. Say you were holding a ball and were spinning around while standing on the earth which of is itself spinning around also. If you let go of ball it will go right on spinning around the earth, but that does not mean that a bug sitting on the ball won't notice that you let go of ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? In general you're right, but the Moon is nearly rigid now, frozen down to appreciable depths. That rigidity I think will prevent the magnitude of snap you're pointing out. I would have to think carefully about what would happen to a liquid surface ocean if there was one on the Moon, though. Because planetary bodies (the Moon counts as one here) make their own quasi-inertial frame (for the perspective of humans walking on the surface), I am not sure the sudden turn-off of Earth's gravity at the lunar surface would be something someone standing in a suit on the surface would notice. The acceleration of gravity made by the Earth at the Moon is roughly 1/3000 of a gee, and I think that's below the threshold of what people can notice without the benefit of instruments, but I'm not absolutely certain of that. Over time the Moon would relax slowly from its oblong shape into something closer to spherical without the Earth tides that shaped it, but I think that's a geological-time process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Question is though, would it start spinning around on it's axis without being locked to Earth? ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Well, it's got rotation around its own axis now, with a period of about 27 Earth days. That would continue if Earth vanished suddenly, unless the vanishing process put a big torque on the Moon, which isn't what was suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? That I had considered, what I was wondering was that since it's not being doinked about in that Orbiting Earth Pattern it has now, if that particular freed up energy would translate somewhere. In my game I have it rolling around at the 27 day mark, but the players think they can speed it up and get some benefit for something they think they are plotting...... May have to have the Martian's drop another Rock on them. Speak Softly, Drop Rocks when you need other colonies attention. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? The sudden disappearance of Earth gravitational pull would would probably I think put the moon into an elliptical orbit going out past Mars and in closer than Venus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Re: Earth Goes Poof, Wherefore Art Thou Luna? Of course' date=' I'm not sure I want a science fiction setting predicated on "whoops!"[/quote'] Maybe, but that's how the Tralfamdorean test pilot ended that universe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.