Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

[steriaca]

Just a deep question...is there room for more than three voulmes for this series? If so, what theams could you see for V4 or V5 to make it difrent than, say V1-3?

 

Hear is my thinking (your might be difrent).

Volume 4 should focus on super agents of VIPER. In other words "hear be Dragons (branch)". V5 might be a start of a yearly or bi-yearly update colecting official Champions Online villians which got the OK from Cryptic and Atari, and if any villian improved there stats/added new powers.

[name_tamer]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

Based on statements Darren made in this thread about the sales of CV1 and CV2, I suspect DOJ will not be eager to do a CV4.

[PamelaIsley]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

I would be surprised if we even saw books collecting various hero teams, which I was hoping for in the same format as CV1 and CV2. Frankly, at this point, I'll count myself lucky if I ever get CV3.

[hartm1967]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

I was just thinking the other day that it would be quite handy to have a book of superheroes (as opposed to villains) or superhero teams. I doubt there's sufficient interest in such books to make them worthwhile. As for more supervillains, to me they are like monsters for a fantasy RPG -- I can always use more. Maybe a book of several different villain themes: horror-themed, high-tech themed, secret organization themed, etc.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

I would like to see the superheroes previously published in the new format, too. And more! I don't expect that, though. Le sigh.

 

I will go out on a limb and predict that we'll see more supervillains in Book of the Empress. Call me crazy, but that's how I see it.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

Steve Long has remarked on a few occasions that the space-based villains mentioned in Champions Beyond would fill a book if they were fully written up. I have some hope that sales of CB will be enough to justify such a book.

 

If there are any more Villains volumes, I doubt they'll be color hardcover books like the trilogy. From Darren's comments I suspect they're just too expensive for the company to commit to.

 

We've been told repeatedly that "hero" books don't sell that well. I think the best we might see is some of the older hero write-ups updated to 6E and collected in a PDF -- something relatively easy for Steve to do in his "copious spare time." But I don't want to imply that Steve or Darren have ever publicly endorsed that idea, because they haven't.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

We'll probably see more villains as they appear in other books, but we probably won't see another full blown "Enemies" book...at least in the near future. Not a huge deal I guess....as there's enough existing Hero material to last through literally hundreds of campaigns.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

Perhaps the Return of Digital Hero or Haymaker or another E-Zine is needed to supply the demand.

 

We do not want to shut down anyones enthusiaum after all.

 

QM

[Steve Long]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

At this point I don't think it's likely that we would need a CV4; the whole point of the CV trilogy was to make it so large and comprehensive that we wouldn't have to publish multiple villain books (because, among other reasons, villains published in later books tend to be "marginalized" compared to "core" villains). At most, I could see the possibility of a book like Evil Unleashed, that compiles all the villains from various published supplements into one book for easy reference, but that'd be years down the line.

 

Nor do I foresee any sort of a "book of NPC heroes." As opposed to villains or even other sorts of NPCs, books of NPC good guys don't seem to be of much interest to the average Hero consumer.

[McCoy]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

This has probably been covered elsewhere, but just to throw out the thought.

 

Maybe there might be enough demand for some of the more marginal supplements if they were published PDF (or maybe a print-on-demand arrangement) rather than the hard copy plus. Not having to deal with the printer and paying them up front might be a better RoI. I'm sure this has already been considered.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

At this point I don't think it's likely that we would need a CV4; the whole point of the CV trilogy was to make it so large and comprehensive that we wouldn't have to publish multiple villain books (because' date=' among other reasons, villains published in later books tend to be "marginalized" compared to "core" villains). At most, I could see the possibility of a book like [i']Evil Unleashed,[/i] that compiles all the villains from various published supplements into one book for easy reference, but that'd be years down the line.

 

Nor do I foresee any sort of a "book of NPC heroes." As opposed to villains or even other sorts of NPCs, books of NPC good guys don't seem to be of much interest to the average Hero consumer.

 

There was some great stuff in Digital Hero in the way of NPC heroes from the past, that I would like to see updated. Maybe as some kind of PDF. Is that on anyone's mind?

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

Game Magazine Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/86688-Game-Magazine-Resources

[TotalerKrieg]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

Won't happen, CV3 isn't even here yet, so don't count on it. My faith in HERO is diminished to say the least.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

Everything DoJ has said regarding sales of the two volumes released to date indicates sales have been marginal. I'm not convinced that's because these are villain books or because they are largely reprints, but a lot of the releases for 6e to date have a significant reprint component, and the two Villains books are noted as the two worst sellers of the 6e line to date.

 

I'd expect the 6e core books to be good sellers. If Star Hero, for example, does not perform up to expectations, that may indicate an issue with reprint material. I'm curious how the two villains books compare in sales to the 5e villain books (ie were they also marginal compared to the genre books), or whether their poorer sales are a new development. The latter might indicate the reprint issue is more significant than the content being villains, and a book composed primarily or exclusively of brand-new villains might fare somewhat better.

 

However, it seems likely villain books would have lower sales. They cater to a single genre, and only GM's are likely to want the villain writeups. Then we subtract the GM's who are happy with their own writeups and don't want CU villains, whether for direct use or inspiration for their own writeups, and we have a relatively small market compared to, say, a book that helps both players and GM's build and grow their Champions characters, much less a book with cross-genre appeal.

 

Similar issues result in low sales of scenarios, a market DoJ more or less removed itself from (other than Hero Plus .pdf's) a long time ago. Perhaps villain books, as opposed to bestiary-type books, may also be on the way out.

[torchwolf]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

There was some great stuff in Digital Hero in the way of NPC heroes from the past' date=' that I would like to see updated. Maybe as some kind of PDF. Is that on anyone's mind?[/quote']

Everything DoJ has said regarding sales of the two volumes released to date indicates sales have been marginal. I'm not convinced that's because these are villain books or because they are largely reprints' date=' but a lot of the releases for 6e to date have a significant reprint component, and the two Villains books are noted as the two worst sellers of the 6e line to date.[/quote']

I think there might be some potential for a collection of more in-depth CU material updated for 6E - maybe pulling out sections of the histories of Fab Five, Sentinels, the optional Profesor Muerte, etc (all from Digital Hero);

as well as portions of CU: News of the World and Champions Worldwide, maybe like a companion piece to the 6E Champions Universe. That might hold more interest for fans of the Champions Universe in general.

Still, this might have the same problem as the CV trilogy - most of the villains have already been published for 5E and can in most cases be used as-is.

[steriaca]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

Basicly, I miss the Enimies books (I thought that the CV's would be the 'new' format for the Enimies books till I learned that it was in hardcover and expencive).

 

The problems with theas books are:

1) Price. The more expencive the book, the less likely we are to buy it.

2) Finding them. I tried looking them up a Borders, but quit when I couldent. In Milwaukee, there is only one RPG store left, and thay are concentrating on DnD and bord games. While it is proably better to order directly from the source, it might not be posable (for out of print books, for example).

3) Reprint factor. Just how many times can the bad doctor be writen up?

4) Unorigonality factor. Whats new, and how much same do I have to wade through to get to new?

5) Fealing of a locked universe. The HERO Universe use to have the feal of anyone can get published if thay had a good colection of villians or a set of adventurs. Now we worry about what Cryptic and Atari would say, unless we go indipendent. But if we go indi, we lose the conection with the Champions Universe.

[Guest Goradin]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

I definitely felt as the 6E villians were not as comprehensive as the 5E versions. I think although they split up characteristics the 5E seemed to have more skills. Since I didn't the solo villians other than a PDF. I have stuck to 5E as 6E doesn't feel complete to me. I have the books but the villain books are iconic to me and without the system does not feel the same. I thought Champions Beyond was great other than the lack of skills which seems system wide.

 

I am still hoping to get this as a book. If it does not come out, I may do the unthinkable and switch to mutants and masterminds. I buy all the books simply for ideas already. But their books are coming out slow too. Very discouraging to a 34+ year gamer seeing my hobby die before my eyes. I hope the economy improves and the gaming cycle picks up again.

 

Steve and Darren 5E was a thing of beauty and the amount of published material for it was amazing. Regardless it was a hell of run and you both have my loyalty in the future.

[Guest dan2448]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

Basicly' date=' I miss the Enimies books[/quote']

 

My grandfather was an Admiral in the US Navy. His son (my uncle) was a Hippie. They didn't get along, and didn't agree on much. But they both agreed that you shouldn't have control over the country's nuclear arsenal if you pronounced, "nuclear," as "nuk-u-lar."

 

I'm afraid I feel the same way about "enemies" books....

[Guest dan2448]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

I definitely felt as the 6E villians were not as comprehensive as the 5E versions.

 

Maybe so. But Enemies I and Enemies II (each from 1981) were 24 pages long, and Enemies III from 1984 was 32 pages in length.

 

"Champions Villains I : Master Villains" was 288 pages, and volume 2 was 300 pages.

 

How much more comprehensive can anyone reasonably want a villains compendium? I bought v1 and v2 in hard copy, and they were both more than I personally wanted or needed.

[Zen Archer]

Re: Champions Villian Voulms Beyond 3: Is There Room For More?

 

My grandfather was an Admiral in the US Navy. His son (my uncle) was a Hippie. They didn't get along, and didn't agree on much. But they both agreed that you shouldn't have control over the country's nuclear arsenal if you pronounced, "nuclear," as "nuk-u-lar."

 

I'm afraid I feel the same way about "enemies" books....

 

I concur. Anyone who would pronounce "enemies" as "nuk-u-lar" shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an RPG.