Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

Actually, I can recall looking at the Geodesics and questioning whether this was the intended power level for starting characters. They were certainly the lowest powered Superteam in the book, and they were the only published villains with no "villain bonus"/xp. If one interprets them that way, the solo supervillains now look like reasonable opposition for a team of four or five starting Supers, especially if we give them a few agent-type Thugs to back them up, rather than being examples of characters on a power level expected to be comparable to an individual player-character.

[steriaca]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

So, the white haired EB is Starlet, the one in Holie's mits? Yep...I always asumed that was Flair.

 

And 8d6? Well, it does depend on the campain. For starting charaters, that would be prehaps the 'top level' till thay start spending XP on there powers and get better. For a street level campain, that could be the level of a well experenced crimfighter. For a cosmic campain, it is extremly laffable.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

Yeah I'd always assumed that was Flare as well.

[Greywind]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

Yep. That's Flare.

[SDarkshine]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

That's Flare, huh?

 

I thought that the pictured lady above was someone else and that THIS was Flare:

 

See attached.

 

I just assumed that since Flare was usually pictured as a blonde instead of white-haired. Perhaps they changed her design along the way; who know.

 

I just thought that the white-haired girl was Starlet, since in the miniature box, Flare was depicted with a CAPE.

 

Thank you all for your help, anyway. Let me know if new information comes up concerning Starlet.

[Orion]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

I always assumed the gal on the cover of Enemies was Howler. Don't know why, just did.

[McCoy]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

The comment on 8d6 being the original average DC is more of a historical note for people reading this who didn't know that. I have played since 1st/2nd edition and had no idea that the original campaigns were at such a low DC. Our first games ranged from DC 6 - DC 16+. We really had no clue what powerlevel to set characters at and many of us just went by what was ok and overpowered in D&D. Some people just went wild.

 

There was a good reason that 3rd edition made so many changes to Power Modifiers. If I was in an Old School mood, I wouldn't go back further than 3rd edition. 3rd was a fairly solid edition of the rules. It fixed most of the issues that we had with 1st and 2nd (1st and 2nd were actually nearly identical, 2nd just fixed some typos and added some writeups IIRC). 3rd added all of Champs II and III into the main rule book and had all of the skills from Danger International, also the Martial Arts too.

 

My Group settled on 12d6 as an average during most of 2nd edition. It seemed like 60-75 pt powers was a sweet spot in the system. More than that the stats needed to be too inflated. It wasn't really damage that inflated our point totals. It was having characters that had skills so they could investigate and not just beat up on Villains. We started to give extra points just for buying skills (usually around 50pts to spend on "non combat" skills. which meant anything but Skill Levels, Martial Arts or Find Weakness).

Yeah, that sweet spot. When I started playing in 1982, most of the EP's in my group had a 75 point multipower (because of how reduced END worked then). This usually included a 15d6 "Full Power" blast, a 7d6 0 END setting, and some 10 or 12 die slots with advantages. Bricks for the most part had 60 STR, HTH attacks could be haymakered and the extra points were needed for defenses. Embarrassing looking back, but fun at the time.

[assault]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

Yeah' date=' that sweet spot. When I started playing in 1982, most of the EP's in my group had a 75 point multipower (because of how reduced END worked then). This usually included a 15d6 "Full Power" blast, a 7d6 0 END setting, and some 10 or 12 die slots with advantages. Bricks for the most part had 60 STR, HTH attacks could be haymakered and the extra points were needed for defenses. Embarrassing looking back, but fun at the time.[/quote']

 

What's embarrassing about it? These kinds of characters worked, and weren't too ridiculous in terms of the source material.

 

Of course I realise that you haven't mentioned the real abuses in the characters....

[McCoy]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

What's embarrassing about it? These kinds of characters worked, and weren't too ridiculous in terms of the source material.

 

Of course I realise that you haven't mentioned the real abuses in the characters....

The character with the 5d6 RKA who only used it on inanimate objects? She called it "the doorknocker." We learned to dread the phrase "Let me knock." Her favorite tactic was to blast the door in, fly in, and Presence attack.

 

OK, you're talking about the Brick with 60 STR who would do the Pushed Haymakers. Back then 30 CON bought you massive amounts of END and REC. Especally if you had a 3 SPD.

[assault]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

Heh. Assault's favourite trick was to throw cars through doors, before presence attacking. It caused more property damage than just smashing the doors down.

 

Oh yeah. That's why I liked the character so much...

 

These days, alas, I would insist on a character who could fly as well.

 

Looking at my screen, I can see my (Australian) Captain Atom avatar. I might have to write him up as a variant on Assault... He wouldn't vary much between 1e, 2e and 3e, I suspect.

 

As always with me, disads would be the tricky part. I might have to think outside the box, and take stuff I normally wouldn't.

 

Naturally, I'm going to go with a homage - Atom Man, not Captain Atom. Apart from anything else, the original character had things in his origin that I would rather change than use. My first draft is a nice little 286 points. That's before accuracy checking (I'm working without reference to the rules), and applying OIHID. I also don't have disads yet, so I'm not sure quite how many points I'm aiming at. Either way, I should be able to hit the 225-250 range. The character is pretty much "original version of Assault + flight".

[Christopher]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

When I started playing in 1982' date=' most of the EP's in my group had a 75 point multipower (because of how reduced END worked then). This usually included a 15d6 "Full Power" blast, a 7d6 0 END setting, and some 10 or 12 die slots with advantages. Bricks for the most part had 60 STR, HTH attacks could be haymakered and the extra points were needed for defenses. Embarrassing looking back, but fun at the time.[/quote']

I just built an EP with a similar Concept and a 45 AP Multipower

1) 7d6 Blast, 1/2 END, STUN only

2) 9d6 Blast

3) 5d6 Sight Flash, Indirect ("Grenadelauncher"), Explosion

4) 2d6 RKA, Armor Piercing

Add to that:

20m Flight

40 END, 8 Rec Endurance Reserve.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

Lol...what?!? Ignorable? If I wanted her to be ignorable, I wouldn't have posted this thread! I wanna know (and no, I do not mean the Starlet from Wings of Valkyrie).

 

Here are some pictures of her:

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and one more thing, I wanted to change the title of the thread to compensate for the interesting discussions about the 8d6. Anyone have any ideas for the title?

 

She's also on the cover of Super Agents. Quick question, when the supplement in this case refer to agents being built as 50 points or 75 points, is it assume to be 50 base and 50 with disadvantges? Just wondering.

[Ranxerox]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

I always assumed that it was 50 or 75 total. Agents were meant to be one or two punch canon fodder.

[assault]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

Agents in Super Agents are PC grade.

 

They are (mainly) built on 50 or 75 points + disadvantages. They use Danger International style disads, though, not Champions ones, which means they get fewer points for them. 50 points worth of DI disads is a lot.

 

These characters aren't much like the NPC mook agents they are originally inspired by.

[assault]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

Here we go: a 1st edition character. Basically compatible with 2nd and 3rd as well, and obviously easy to convert to later editions. He would need skills in the latter case, of course.

 

I kind of like him, cheese and all.

---

Atom Man

(Adam Mann)

 

Val Char Cost

60 STR 50

20 DEX 30

33 CON 46

15 BODY 10

13 INT 3

10 EGO 0

20 PRE 10

12 COM 1

27 PD 15

27 ED 20

4 SPD 10

24 REC 10

66 END 0

62 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 205 Points

 

Cost Powers & Skills

5 Detective Work

15 Damage Resistance - all killing attacks

30 Flight 15"

5 Instant Change [One Set of Clothes]

15 Reduced Endurance - 1/2 END cost on Strength

Total Powers & Skills Cost: 70 Points

 

Total Cost: 275 Points

 

100+ Disadvantages

10 DNPC: Sheila Hack, Investigative Journalist (romantic interest) (11-, Normal)

25 Hunted: Doctor Emile DeVille (Single person, Supervillain 11-)

30 Hunted: VIPER (large group, uses supervillains, 11-)

20 Psychological Limitation: Code Against Killing (Common, Total)

20 Psychological Limitation: Seeks Justice (Common, Total)

15 Secret ID (Adam Mann, Police Detective) (Frequently, Major)

10 Susceptible to Radiation (Uncommon, 2d6 per phase)

15 3d6 Unluck

20 Vulnerable to Surprise Attacks (Common, 2x STUN)

10 Vulnerable to Radiation Attacks (Uncommon, 2x STUN)

Total Disadvantage Points: 275

 

History: Caught in an Atomic Bomb blast, ace police detective Adam Mann gained incredible strength, resistance to damage and the ability to fly. Wanting to use these new abilities for the greater good, Mann changes into his alter ego of Atom Man when things get too hot for a normal man to handle.

 

The blast was engineered by the nefarious Dr Emile DeVille, a mad scientist who occasionally works with VIPER. Thwarted by Atom Man's unexpected appearance, he has sworn revenge.

 

Investigative journalist Sheila Hack seeks to discover Atom Man's secret identity, a quest which has caused her to cross paths with Adam Mann, who has been assigned to solve the same mystery…

 

Atom Man's already energy filled body reacts badly to further doses of radiation (eg x-ray doses, radiation based attacks). True blue hero that he is, he can often be incapacitated by surprise attacks.

 

Sometimes unfortunate and unexpected things happen to him.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

Agents in Super Agents are PC grade.

 

They are (mainly) built on 50 or 75 points + disadvantages. They use Danger International style disads, though, not Champions ones, which means they get fewer points for them. 50 points worth of DI disads is a lot.

 

These characters aren't much like the NPC mook agents they are originally inspired by.

 

Thanks, that's what I was thinking.

[Armitage]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

I also think the number of starting pts. has gotten out of hand. There's been a power-level creep-up from edition to edition that I haven't enjoyed. Just a matter of taste: I like lower power levels for starting PCs.

 

I've always viewed the increase in starting points as partially the result in a change in the character design paradigm over the years.

 

Enemies I: Utility had one 3-point Skill, plus Martial Arts, Combat Skill Levels, and Skill Levels.

Enemies II: Professor Muerte, Dr. Destroyer Jr., had no Skills. None, zero, zilch, nada.

 

In 4th Edition, they increased to 12 and 27 points respectively.

 

A 5th Edition generic Viper Agent had 34 points of Skills, plus Martial Arts and Combat Skill Levels. In 6th Edition, it increased to 37 plus Martial Arts and Levels.

 

Character design has shifted to giving characters more extensive non-combat Skills, with the total points increasing in response.

[Tasha]

Re: Who the Heck are These?!? Questions about some of the Old SuperHeroes

 

I've always viewed the increase in starting points as partially the result in a change in the character design paradigm over the years.

 

Enemies I: Utility had one 3-point Skill, plus Martial Arts, Combat Skill Levels, and Skill Levels.

Enemies II: Professor Muerte, Dr. Destroyer Jr., had no Skills. None, zero, zilch, nada.

 

In 4th Edition, they increased to 12 and 27 points respectively.

 

A 5th Edition generic Viper Agent had 34 points of Skills, plus Martial Arts and Combat Skill Levels. In 6th Edition, it increased to 37 plus Martial Arts and Levels.

 

Character design has shifted to giving characters more extensive non-combat Skills, with the total points increasing in response.

 

Because the characters in E I and E II were built using the base Champions rules. Which didn't include skills beyond Detective Work, Acrobatics and Martial Arts. Skills were introduced in Champions II. Skills became an official part of the core rules in Champions 3rd edition (powder blue perfect bound edition). So as things like skills were added to the system, point values eventually were increased. Unfortunatly, that didn't really happen till 5th ediiton. We played 1/2nd edition at 200ish (100+100disads) character points, 4th edition at 250pts(100+150 disads). Those points were required to buy our character's powers. It was nearly impossible to buy any amount of meaningful skills. So our group started to give an extra 50 points to fill out those skills. Eventually that was codified into 5th edition when starting points were officially raised to 350pts. (ie 200+150 disads).

 

You are right. In the games I have played in there really hasn't been any powercreep. In fact we started with characters who threw up to 18+DC attacks and then reined everyone in with a limit of DC12 that has stood till this day.

 

So good points!