mayapuppies Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 I know Hero System has no absolutes, but I was wondering what the most effective way to simulate an Immunity to all Drain powers would be? High levels of Power Defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains The Inherent Advantages (+1/4) that can only be taken if the power is Persistent already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted May 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains How does that stop draining a characteristic? Aren't they already Inherent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains How does that stop draining a characteristic? Aren't they already Inherent? I mean the Inherent Advantage on 6E1 334. Has nothing to do with game elements being bought as characteristics or powers. However it can't be applied to characteristics at all (APG II 6). See only two other ways: Power Defense. But that would affect Transforms and AVAD's as well. And you have to account for Armor Piercing and Penetrating. Damage Negation or Reduction, defined as working against Drains could work (see APG I 86 and 87 for details). APG I also has a 100% negation. But overall this a rather meta-gamy effect. Why should a character be immune to anti-con poisions, heatwave and leech effects? Isn't it easier to just find a SFX explanaition why he is affected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains What about a constant always on dispel versus drains? it is power specific and you could pitch it such that most drains would have little or no effect. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains Why not just invoke a house rule to allow a flavor of Damage Negation to be used specifically against Drains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains A metric asstonne of Power Defense really seems like the only way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains If just going with Power Defense you probably need to give it the new defense to Penetrating to cover things like Wonder Woman's Magic Lasso of Truth. Golden Lasso of Truth 6 1) Stretching 16m, x4 Noncombat, Reduced Endurance (½ END; +¼); Limited Power Only for Grabs and Throws (-1), OAF Unbreakable (Lasso; -1), Always Direct (-¼), Limited Body Parts (-¼), Gestures (-¼), Unified Power (-¼) 1 7 2) Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +¼) for up to 75 Active Points of STR (including Martial Grab bonus), Reduced Endurance (½ END; +¼); Limited Power Only for Grabs and Throws (-1), OAF Unbreakable (Lasso; -1), Gestures (-¼), Unified Power (-¼) 1 The Fires of Hestia 13 1) Drain EGO 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +¼), Reduced Endurance (½ END; +¼), Constant (+½), Penetrating (+½), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1); Conditional Power Only to force truthful answers from anyone held within the Lasso (From 6e1, page 44: At EGO 0 the character follows all orders given to him from any source unless he succeeds with an EGO Roll.; -1), OAF Unbreakable (Golden Lasso; -1), Limited Power Only usable vs. target(s) grabbed using Golden Lasso (-1), No Range (-½), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (½ DCV; -½), Unified Power (-¼) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains I know Hero System has no absolutes, but I was wondering what the most effective way to simulate an Immunity to all Drain powers would be? High levels of Power Defense? I, for one, am not a fan of immunity to a game mechanic. That said, Power Defense (lots of it, with Advantages like Hardened and the like) as well as 75% Damage Reduction would go a long way to making one immune to most any Drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains If just going with Power Defense you probably need to give it the new defense to Penetrating to cover things like Wonder Woman's Magic Lasso of Truth. Of course, published HERO statistics for even gods and cosmic entities don't have Impenetrable for their Power Defense (though some of the really powerful ones do have Hardened). If I were the GM it would take a very persuasive argument to get me to OK that for a player character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains Another alternative is to use the Absolute Effect Rule (6E1 p133). Just be sure it won't break the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted May 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains It's not for PC's, it's for an NPC template that can be added to a monster/NPC. So game breakage isn't an issue, neither is GM approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains It's not for PC's' date=' it's for an NPC template that can be added to a monster/NPC. So game breakage isn't an issue, neither is GM approval.[/quote'] Take the 100% Damage Reduction from APG I and define it to work against Drains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains I know Hero System has no absolutes, but I was wondering what the most effective way to simulate an Immunity to all Drain powers would be? High levels of Power Defense? Sure..How often will Power Def (20) to (25) not be enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains OK, coming at this the wrong way, probably, but you are immune to drains? So you can't be affected by poisons that make you weak, or light interference patterns that make you stupid, or increases in friction between air molecules that make it more difficult to move, or a magically summoned invisible leprechaun that keeps on tripping you and knocking things out out your hands, making you less Dextrous, or... You can't be immune to all drains because you can't think of a good reason why you would be: they are not one effect, they are a plethora of effects, and I'm going to be handing out rep to anyone who can come up with a reasonable reason why you can be immune to drains that makes any kind of game-sense. Having said that, adjustment powers in Hero should be completely overhauled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains You can't be immune to all drains because you can't think of a good reason why you would be: they are not one effect' date=' they are a plethora of effects, and I'm going to be handing out rep to anyone who can come up with a reasonable reason why you can be immune to drains that makes any kind of game-sense.[/quote'] You are a sheet for a mook group. Having one body affected is not relevant enough for game efficiency. It would only need some thinking about Area of Effect Drains (like "should AoE be excluded?") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains Well, yes, but drains still affect a group, they just have to do it one at a time or (as you say) with AoE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains Immovable Object, meet Unstoppable Force. Even when there's absolutes, there's probably a way around it. But... If you're a God - it's possible to say (within the context of a Game World) that nothing can reduce your abilities, nothing. Or - as the OP stated - the NPC God cannot have their abilities reduced, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains The only mechanical way to be immune to drains is to buy everything with 'inherent', and even then you are still vulnerable to Transform, which can do, apparently, much the same thing. A GM can always make an NPC invulnerable, if they like, but the same considerations that might apply to drains also apply to damage - and truly invulnerable characters don't exist in Hero unless you subscribe to '100% damage reduction', which I think is mathematically unsound. The thing is you can't find a way to justify buying something that can not be drained, or if you are going to with a 'deus ex', all powerful type explanation, well, it is easy to build something that players seem to be unable to hurt if you have infinite points. Even the 'all powerful' explanation only works if there is only one all powerful being. Of course by definition, like the immovable object/unstoppable force, you have to either come to the conclusion that: 1. They can not both logically exist, unless 2. They never interact, or 3. Someone needs to look up the definition of 'immovable' and 'unstoppable', and why not look up 'unsinkable' while you are at it? I suppose I'd have to ask WHY you want a character that can not be drained. It just seems so unnecessary. Even 'inherent' powers, to make sense, tend to be stuff that the character has no relationship to (like 2. above). You can have inherent LS: No need to breathe if you simply do not respire, because you have no need to (maybe you are a robot that runs off an internal nuclear fuel cell, or a really tightly wound spring); that would leave a character that could not be drained of anything as nothing. Hmm. Deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains Hmm. Cannot be drained. I am an avatar of antimatter. My creator has sent me to this world to assess its value. Drains are an application of anti-matter and so may even strengthen me. As a construct, poisons and gases do not effect me. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains Hmm. Cannot be drained. I am an avatar of antimatter. My creator has sent me to this world to assess its value. Drains are an application of anti-matter and so may even strengthen me. As a construct, poisons and gases do not effect me. Doc What about anti-friction? Or, as we like to call it, lube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains This sounds like an attempt to show a player that drains are not the uber-weapon the GM has let them become. Of course, I could be wrong...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains Of course' date=' published HERO statistics for even gods and cosmic entities don't have Impenetrable for their Power Defense (though some of the really powerful ones do have Hardened). If I were the GM it would take a [i']very[/i] persuasive argument to get me to OK that for a player character. Well, the source material has several examples of her using it successfully vs. gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains Super-Plumber: "Of course, I have personal immunuity to drains. I carry a plumber's helper and a stopper!" *Rimshot* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Re: Immunity to Drains Hmm. Cannot be drained. I am an avatar of antimatter. My creator has sent me to this world to assess its value. Drains are an application of anti-matter and so may even strengthen me. As a construct' date=' poisons and gases do not effect me.[/quote'] And what if I hit you with Matter instead? Well' date=' the source material has several examples of her using it successfully vs. gods.[/quote'] I would think that either "gods aren't what they used to be" (thier powerlevel is close to the superhumans they fought) or that they had a Vulnerability to "god built" artifacts like the Lasso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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