Dodgeball question

[quozaxx]

In our pbp game, we are playing dodgeball. (it's a teen game). Now, a ball is being thrown at you and you want to catch this ball.

 

Now, kids do this all the time, and it doesn't seem "too" hard to do (so I don't think it would be a tremendous minus), But what do you go by? Block? Grab? Grab By? Dive for Cover?

 

Grab would seem most appropriate, but the minus on a moving small ball would probably be pretty large, (and their OCV's are not that high being teens and all)

 

Block would seem appropriate, but the word "Block" is throwing me off. Can you "catch" a ball to "block" it?

 

The ball is moving, so would Grab By be more appropriate, even though it's the ball and not the character that is moving?

 

Or perhaps (suggested by a player), it is a Dive for Cover move. The name "Dive for Cover" seems like you are trying to avoid the ball, not catch it.

[Christopher]

Re: Dodgball question

 

I think the most common actions are:

Dodge

Dive for Cover

Block (Special effect of Dodge)

Holding an Action to Grab (this is what you are after)

 

I don't see much of a penalty. Sure, it is a small movign target. But it is also flying directly towards you. That makes the relative velocity for OCV/DCV purposes rather low.

Maybe make it a OCV contest between attacker and catcher/grabber would help?

 

 

In a teen champions game Bricks are normally at a disadvantage (Lower OCV and DCV), since they prefer to "soak up" damage, not void it.

Perhaps allowing them the "Spread" the Attack with the ball to some degree helps them. Special effect would be to "throw it so hard/fast, it's difficulty to grab/dodge".

Also they might have more "practice" in not dodging, but grabbing stuff comming towards them.

 

One thing to check is how you value comabt luck/superdodge PD/ED. Technicalyl those should make it hard to hit them at dodgeball as well.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Dodgball question

 

I'd call it a Block.

[Escafarc]

Re: Dodgball question

 

Reflection?

[phoenix240]

Re: Dodgball question

 

Block seems most appropriate.

[esampson]

Re: Dodgball question

 

With mundane activities you always have to fudge around a bit. Otherwise the odds of a normal human being hitting a baseball become astronomical (massive DCV from both its size and speed).

 

Hitting and dodging are both probably pretty straightforward. OCV minus range penalties verses target's DCV. Blocking (if you have more than 1 ball in play) is also pretty straightforward. The main problem becomes catching which I would probably do as some sort of competing stats. Either OCV vs. OCV similar to blocking or else a skill roll vs. skill roll. Probably lean more towards the first than the second which would make it like a block but I would probably change the modifiers somewhat (since its easier to block the ball with another ball than it is to catch).

[Badger]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

What about my strategy as a kid? (stand behind teammates using them as a human shield)

[L. Marcus]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

Only works if there are bigger kids than you.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

You could combine Grab and Block into one maneuver for this purpose; take the penalties for Grabbing (-2 OCV, -1 DCV IIRC), which makes you more likely to get hit (which makes sense, since you're trying to grab the ball instead of avoid it), but gives you the chance for the 'instant out'.

[Tasha]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

A typical rubber dodge ball is at most a 4 DCV for size being a ball around 18 -24 inches in diameter. It may pickup a couple of extra points of DCV from the Velocity of a particularly fast throw.

 

I would use Grab. It makes sense for this.

 

From what I can remember a game would look like this:

Thrower picks person they think can't dodge the ball nor catch it. Throws the ball

The Target either dodges (either by aborting or by using their delayed phase)

If the target has a Delayed phase they can instead try to catch the ball. I would have Thrower and Target Dice off vs Dex to see who goes first (because sometimes the target isn't fast enough to catch the ball).

Since the ball is coming right at the target, I would rule that velocity has no effect on DCV. THe Target would take the penalties for the grab regardless.

Assuming that the Target rolled higher on the dex off, they would roll their OCV vs the Ball's DCV to grab the ball.

[esampson]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

...It may pickup a couple of extra points of DCV from the Velocity of a particularly fast throw...

 

An object travelling at between 24-47 mph is at DVC 5. I don't think 24 mph qualifies as a particularly fast throw, even on the playground (maximum range at that speed is a bit over 30 feet and I'm sure I remember kids able to throw those balls farther than that).

 

That means that according to RAW the ball has a DCV of around 9. With no modifiers at all your average person needs to roll a 5 to catch it which is about a 4.5% chance. With the penalty for Grab the odds of a successful catch goes from slim to pretty much non-existent.

[Christopher]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

A typical rubber dodge ball is at most a 4 DCV for size being a ball around 18 -24 inches in diameter. It may pickup a couple of extra points of DCV from the Velocity of a particularly fast throw.

There is one problem with asinging it a DCV:

It's not supposed to have one.

DCV's are for things that actively try to resist being hit. A character, even one that only has half DCV, is still avoiding being hit by whatever means possible. A ball is not actively trying to resist anything. A ball on the ground has a DCV of less than 0 - it can be picked up without a Grab.

The other thing is that if Velcoity DCV applies (I agree that it propably should not), it replaces the normal DCV. It does not adds to the existing DCV.

 

 

 

Most so far seem to agree that it should be some sort of OCV contest. That makes the most sense - the attacker might throw in a way that is hard to catch (target the legs).

[esampson]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

Oh yeah, just to get even sillier with trying to force mundane activities into the base rules, I just realized you can work out exactly how fast a normal human 'should' be able to throw a ball. A regulation beach volleyball is about .28-.29 kg. Since a dodgeball is a little bit lighter we can round that down to .25 kg. According to the throwing chart you use 8kg at 1 strength and then each 1/2 weight is 5 strength less. 5 division is -25 strength so it takes a -24 strength to lift a dodgeball. Assuming the thrower has a 10 strength they can throw it about 56m or around 672m per turn, so that's DCV 9 and an additional DCV 4 for size which means DCV 13.

 

Remembering to add the -2 for Grab and even a superhero has a pretty awful chance of trying to catch a dodgeball thrown by an average person (and noting that even if we increase the weight of the ball slightly and decrease the strength to represent a child you will probably only drop 2 points in velocity based DCV so that it is pretty difficult for a superhero to catch a dodgeball thrown by a small child).

[Christopher]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

Other idea:

You could adapt the rules for "Grabbing a Falling Character" (6E2 140).

Or the rules to stop a moving Object on 6E2 26 (of course the Ball has no STR, and you have to figure out a value for the velocity*).

Or just use whatever rule you use to Grab a thrown weapon. Because despite being soft, the Ball in Dodgeball is nothing different from a throwing spear.

 

 

*You have the same problem with Velcoity DCV. How about using the maximum Throwing Distance (based on the STR of the Attacker) as a basis for this?

[Hermit]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

What about my strategy as a kid? (stand behind teammates using them as a human shield)

 

That's Cover

 

with a possible complication of "hunted by the meatshield after class 8-"

[mattingly]

Re: Dodgball question

 

With mundane activities you always have to fudge around a bit. Otherwise the odds of a normal human being hitting a baseball become astronomical (massive DCV from both its size and speed).

 

Digital Hero had an analysis of baseball. Ball size, pitch speed, base distance, and other aspects.

[Tasha]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

There is one problem with asinging it a DCV:

It's not supposed to have one.

DCV's are for things that actively try to resist being hit. A character, even one that only has half DCV, is still avoiding being hit by whatever means possible. A ball is not actively trying to resist anything. A ball on the ground has a DCV of less than 0 - it can be picked up without a Grab.

The other thing is that if Velcoity DCV applies (I agree that it propably should not), it replaces the normal DCV. It does not adds to the existing DCV.

 

 

 

Most so far seem to agree that it should be some sort of OCV contest. That makes the most sense - the attacker might throw in a way that is hard to catch (target the legs).

 

Of course it can have a DCV. It starts as a 0 being an object, but like all objects either gives the attacker a Bonus or Penalty to OCV. So instead of saying that the ball has a -4 OCV to hit. I moved the value to DCV where it is more naturally should be. BTW you should try to pick up a ball on the ground while trying to dodge. It isn't as easy as taking your time out of combat to do the same thing.

[quozaxx]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

My player came up with a really good question. "I'm not sure what skill is applicable - what governs catching or throwing a ball? Acrobatics? PS: Ball Skills?"

 

The character wants to be a football player in the game. Catching and throwing a ball. So what would help him do that (especially catching a ball, since that is kinda hazy)

[Escafarc]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

PS:Football (HS6-Skills page 254)

[Christopher]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

The same things that help you catching and throwing a weapon:

OCV, OCV, and OCV.

Note that most gaming balls (unlike many imporvised weapons) are built to be thrown.

Also note that most of the throws acre actually passes. They are aimed to be catchable by the "target". Only intercepting them is a problem. Or if the guy passing is somehow hindered.

 

Of course doing that professional entails a lot more. Things like Teamwork, how Formations and Tatics work.

He can be anywhere from PS: Football, to Teamwork, Tactics and PS: Football

[Christopher]

Re: Dodgeball question

 

Just re-read the throwing rules. Aside for throwing for damage, they also deal extensively with "throwing sombody something" (car keys across a chasm is noted).

 

Here is what I think:

Picking the ball up from the ground would ikely work wihtout roll. In most cases even as part of the Attack action you use to throw it.

A ball in games where throwing it is common, should be treated like throwing a "noresisting, balanced and aerodynamic" Projectile: +/- 0.

The thrower may be limited by his throwing distance and must compete with range modifiers. On the other hand I woudl consider the Balls DCV to be 0 (or at tops 3 for as for a AoE).

Some balls might be to heavy or not designed for throwing. Some penalty might apply then.

 

Catching the Ball (6E2 82):

If an object is thrown too you with the intent that you catch it (car keys. a Pass in msot games) and the attack succeds, the rules say that catching is either a "0-phase" or taht it can be done "off phase" but you need to spend a half phase to "ready" the object in your next phase (alternatively you could have held a half-phase to catch it). I would tend towarsd letting it cost a half phase at least (people never try to catch balls while on a dead run).

 

The rule say there is now default way to catch a thrown weapon - that needs a power. I think this simply means there is no way to catch them without being hit by them (so it makes so little sense in most games, that there are no rules for it). I think things like Refelction only exist so you can catch thown weapons savely. Without any danger from the thrown object, I would use the basic rules (Block/Ranged OCV vs HTH-OCV contest; does not works when you abort to it) but leave the need for the power out.