shuddemell Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hi, I am a little new to the boards (posting anyway), but I have been wondering if some of the great discussions here might have an impact on non-hero players on other boards. I tried starting some on rpg.net and had some limited success and thought maybe that sort of advocacy would be the way to get more people into Hero. I see a lot of people with misconceptions and bad experiences that might not be valid if only enough people with Hero savvy were to dispel them. Just a thought on helping Hero overcome and become more recognized in the larger RPG market. What are everyone's thoughts about this, and is it unwise to pursue any further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... It's most definitely unwise to pursue it further. HERO System discussions on RPG.net go quite well these days. Not so long ago, there was a gang of usual suspects who would drop into every -- and I do mean every -- Hero discussion thread to flame it up. The moderation staff there figured it out and a bunch of them got permabanned, and the rest either learned to be good or left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Yes. Hero System on rpg.net has "history." I tend to post there organically. That is, I post in threads where I have something to say, and otherwise I stay out. I don't go over there and try to "preach Hero System" at them, or something like that. They know about us, and when it's appropriate, HS gets mentioned. Personally, I'd prefer to not be the reverse of the trolls Chris mentioned. Let's not wear out our welcome over there. When Champions Complete is released, I intend to post a review/mini-review with my own thoughts. I think that's appropriate, being a new product and all. Until there's news though, I don't want to stir up their rpg.net pot. It seems kind of poor manners, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Though rpg.net is something of a different beast, because it's not specifically dedicated to the games of a particular company, I think actively pushing Hero discussion beyond the organic (good term gojira) threshold of tolerance for it probably wouldn't be productive. Partially, I think people don't want to hear why your game is better than their game. And partially I think may just be poor manners. After all, I doubt we'd have lots of love if there was an organized influx of people coming here to advocate why we should all switch to playing Pathfinder or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Though rpg.net is something of a different beast' date=' because it's not specifically dedicated to the games of a particular company, I think actively pushing Hero discussion beyond the organic (good term gojira) threshold of tolerance for it probably wouldn't be productive. Partially, I think people don't want to hear why your game is better than their game. And partially I think may just be poor manners. After all, I doubt we'd have lots of love if there was an organized influx of people coming here to advocate why we should all switch to playing Pathfinder or something... [/quote']I agree with the sentiment, but there is a distinct difference. This is the Official Hero RPG Discussion forum. RPG.Net is not the Official Pathfinder forum (unless something happened when I wasn't looking). That said, I still don't think a virtual case of the Church of the Latter Day Hero is appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuddemell Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Well, I certainly didn't intend to engage in a my game is better than your game sort of thing. As a matter of fact, I don't really believe it is for everyone anyway, a lot of people don't want to put in the work required for Hero. My only point was that on generic sites, rather than those dedicated to a particular system, some sort of positive representation could be helpful. Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Well' date=' I certainly didn't intend to engage in a my game is better than your game sort of thing. As a matter of fact, I don't really believe it is for everyone anyway, a lot of people don't want to put in the work required for Hero. My only point was that on generic sites, rather than those dedicated to a particular system, some sort of positive representation could be helpful. Just a thought...[/quote'] And it would be. Unfortunately, gamers like to argue. IME, threads about Hero tend to attract not only people curious about Hero, but also people whose only interest in Hero is to insult it. So you get some people insulting it (often based on misconceptions), which leads to fans of the game trying to defend it or correct the misconceptions, and that back-and-forth can easily turn into (or seem like, to someone unfamiliar with the game) an argument over whose game is "better." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... If you have something to post, like a Hero game you are running, or you want to ask for other Hero players, or something like that, go ahead and feel free. A few of us will probably chime in. But expect some arguing too. You need a really light touch with certain folks over there. One of the best tactics is just to decline politely to argue ("That really isn't the topic I intended.") and then move quickly to something that is on topic to direct the conversation elsewhere. Anyway, I think what I'm saying is if you want to make some posts go ahead, but I think a call here for all of us to pile on rpg.net is inappropriate. If you'd like to mention, here, posts you've make at rpg.net I think that would be ok for some moral support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Well' date=' I certainly didn't intend to engage in a my game is better than your game sort of thing. As a matter of fact, I don't really believe it is for everyone anyway, a lot of people don't want to put in the work required for Hero. My only point was that on generic sites, rather than those dedicated to a particular system, some sort of positive representation could be helpful. Just a thought...[/quote'] The positive representation I try to bring is being friendly and helpful on HERO System related threads over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... And it would be. Unfortunately' date=' gamers like to argue. IME, threads about Hero tend to attract not only people curious about Hero, but also people whose only interest in Hero is to insult it.[/quote'] This is less so in the past two or three years than ever before. The moderators have clamped down hard on people doing that. Edited to add: Also, I think some of us -- I know I have, for sure -- have developed thicker skins about that sort of thing. And everyone knows at some point the "you need a math degree to play" gets brought out -- and almost always, very lightly shot down even by people who aren't HERO partisans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuddemell Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Yes, I agree that all of us piling on there as you suggest would be counter productive at best, and it isn't really what I was suggesting. I was mainly interested in those that seem to post here and only here broaden their sphere of influence a bit. I know that most of you that have responded do indeed post elsewhere, and I ran into Derek on rpg.net myself. I was hoping with a little more effort we can win hearts and minds. I don't solely play Hero myself, though it is the only game I GM. In any case, thanks for you input, it tends to reinforce what I have seemed to notice... and that is few people are willing to change from the comfortable, even if the promise of something better is there. Well, I don't really want to spend what precious little time I have tilting at windmills.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barwickian Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... I think advocacy is probably the wrong approach, and going out of your way to promote Hero may end up annoying people. It looks pushy at best, spammy at worst. But mentioning Hero when it's appropriate certainly won't hurt. I got into Hero thanks to a couple of people (one of them being Vondy) posting about it on the Harn Forum, on a thread specifically asking peope what systems they used. Both the posters were people who'd had a number of interesting things to say on other topics, and I was interested enough in what they had to say about Hero System to give it a try. At that time both were posters of some years standing, and though they'd mentioned using Hero System before, neither of them proselytised for it. That being said, Harn Forum posters, like Hero Boards posters, are generally well mannered and intelligent. I also picked up The Riddle of Steel and, recently, Burning Wheel as the result of recommendations from the Harn Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Yes' date=' I agree that all of us piling on there as you suggest would be counter productive at best, and it isn't really what I was suggesting. I was mainly interested in those that seem to post here and only here broaden their sphere of influence a bit. I know that most of you that have responded do indeed post elsewhere, and I ran into Derek on rpg.net myself. I was hoping with a little more effort we can win hearts and minds. I don't solely play Hero myself, though it is the only game I GM. In any case, thanks for you input, it tends to reinforce what I have seemed to notice... and that is few people are willing to change from the comfortable, even if the promise of something better is there. Well, I don't really want to spend what precious little time I have tilting at windmills....[/quote'] The boards here have a long history, and some folks have been posting here for 13 years or more under various incarnations of board software and company ownership. If there weren't an active community I could see trying to build one up over there, but what we've got works well enough. Edited to add: And with the history over there, despite the much improved current atmosphere some of us (me for sure, probably others), are reeeeeeeeeeeally gun shy about pushing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuddemell Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Well Chris, I would say that were true concerning those already sold on Hero. If you concede you can't win anyone else over, then yes it does work fine. I am not advocating pushing things, I am saying a presence, albeit an organic one can be good. I really don't mind if people are intent on harshing my gig anyway, I know what I like. But you are right in that, considering the tendency of people to be antagonistic towards new ideas, then it would probably only breed animosity. I had hoped, since the gaming community is aging (I myself started gaming in 1978) that it would also be maturing... Guess not... I suppose what I am seeing is the decline of the hobby in general, and Hero in particular, and I wanted to spark some interest. I have watched this board for a while now, and there are a lot of good, reasonable, creative people here. So much so that I really think this community has a lot to offer, unfortunately it is being overlooked by the naysayers at such places and those that concede defeat. I don't believe I am the sort to overbearingly push my ideas as better than anyone else's... so I think it seems like everyone believes I was wanting to hit people over the head with Hero to knock sense into them, which I am not. I am talking about a subtle thing, but it seems that maybe it is a naive hope on my part if you all believe any kind of advocacy would come to naught. Sad really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... There are a number of us who do post over there, probably half a dozen or more names from here do pop up over there in Hero threads. We do try to keep it pretty low key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... If talking about Hero on other forums is being considered, I would personally only do it in 3 situations. 1. Someone has a question about the system, or an egregious untruth is being spread. I'd give a plain, factual answer, with no comments. 2. Someone asks about the system used for a certain genre, or what you've played in the past. I may do some advocacy in order to explain why I choose one system over another, but often may not. 3. They have a specific sub-forum for discussion of Hero, or at least for other systems being used. I generally am far more interested in genre and setting discussions than I am in the rule sets, so rarely give more than a brief mention of Hero outside this forum. And given my low tolerance for flame wars, trolls, snide comments, and such, what I have heard of the rpg.net forums have generally scared me away from them. Of the gaming fora I frequent, this is the least friendly, which says a lot about how picky I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... What other gaming fora do you frequent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... A recent example of a supers discussion on RPG.net: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?643903-Supers-Recommend-a-system I think it helps to be a regular participant on the forum. Folks get used to seeing you around and learn your opinions, and you get used to the opinions of other folks on the forum. It helps both parties. I'm still careful not to be a fan-boi, but expressing an opinion on a thread is fine, and participating in more than just advocacy is important too. Don't be afraid to have a bit of fun. What other gaming fora do you frequent? Good question. I don't read anything game related other than on Hero Games and RPG.net. Anyone else got fora they like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... I spend a lot of time at RPG.net and Story Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... I spend a lot of time at RPG.net and Story Games. You traitor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... What other gaming fora do you frequent? 1. The HarnForum (http://www.lythia.com/forum/). Discussion of the Harn campaign setting, the HarnMaster rules set, and occasional forays into related matters. While politics, religion, personal life, etc aren't banned, off-topic stuff is rarely brought up. We stay pretty much on topic. 2. Battletech (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/). Discussion of real life religion and politics are strongly discouraged. I think it is officially banned, but not 100% sure. Mention of almost any historic event since about 1900 will usually get a warning from a moderator. If it is a controversial topic (Holocaust, 9-11-01, etc.), there is a guaranteed mod notice and the thread is locked if anyone else continues. There is actually a shared alternate universe event that people use in their fan fiction just so they can reference a Very Bad Event, because saying Holocaust or Hitler can get the post removed. The mods will step in if a discussion gets even a tiny bit heated. I think they go too far, but it does ensure people stay on the topic of Battletech, and stay nice to each other. Overall, I'd much rather put up with overzealous moderators than bad posters, so most of the time I don't mind. Now the hunting forums I used to read are another matter. Some of those get downright toxic in regards to politics and religion, and posters regularly force their opinions into threads about hunting and guns. I've pretty much given up on them until after the election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hancock.tom Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... I agree totally with Chris. I'm a frequent reader, sometimes poster on RPG.net. It is a site with an active D&D / Pathfinder community, and an "open roleplaying" board which is almost entirely rules light style gamers. Thats why over the years there have been times when HERO wasn't received very nicely over there, people who hated complex systems ran the place. That is starting to change a lot and we don't want to be over there making people get annoyed with how frequent and preachy we are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhaierr Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Re: Advocacy on other sites... I had the chance today to plug Hero on Slashdot, of all places. I wish I'd logged in beforehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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