The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

[hancock.tom]

You know the archetype. Like the trills in star trek (Jadzia Dax), or the Shollarans from Star Hero's terran empire. An alien race exists as a small, sometimes insect like parasite, but has a human-like intelligence, and has a psychic connection to some larger organism which allows it to interact with the humanoid world.

 

The Shollarans in TE are built with zero end telepathy, zero end mind control, small size, a follower creature (ape-like) to "live in" and a bunch of disadvantages for being basically sentient millipedes.

 

BUT: I'm finding the "follower" thing a bit of a cop out. It doesn't really explain where the creature exists in/on the host. If I'm a centipede riding a gorilla's back and telepathically controlling him, mind control and a follower doesn't seem to capture that. Follower assumes the follower is going to generally do what you want most of the time anyway because your interests are aligned - I guess you just fudge that you have low level telepathy with him and suggest he does what you want? It also isn't clear on whether the alien is inside the host, or riding on his shoulder. Unless I buy some clinging or something it seems a bit odd.

 

Couple problems with that build. First, I don't want to have to roll my mind control or telepathy several times a day (I guess I could buy it with predetermined effect, constant, and make sure the follower ape is dumb enough to ensure it works) and second, it seems that this character type is treating the follower construct almost like a multiform or something- using the follower's increased mobility, manipulation, etc. to get around the character's disadvantages, when its just a follower.

 

This has me wondering if there is a more elegant build for this type of power. Anyone have any alternate builds for this? I read this morning that there is a "possession" power in the APG, which I own but haven't read that section, I think that might be a more accurate way to describe the fact that the parasite alien is inside the host. Maybe use that with some disadvantage to show the alien isn't actually desolid.

 

I've also seen many posts about this statting it out as a major transform using mental attack values. That makes some sense but doesn't really capture the physical aspects of it, plus what if you leave the ape for some reason? He has been transformed into a mindless host so that doesn't really capture it.

 

Another thing I've been toying with is a cumulative ego drain so the longer you are together the more difficult it is to resist. This would make a lot of sense and eventually get it to where you didn't need to roll mind control at all.

 

Multiform is an interesting alternative

 

Anyone got any alternate builds?

[hancock.tom]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

I'm amused that the HERO board things "Old School feminists to the rescue" is one of the "similar threads"

[Sean Waters]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

I never like the 'one character in another character' build with some sort of desolid and clinging. Messy. Mind you there are so many different examples of how it works it is difficult to comment generally on the right way to do it. Another issue is whether the symbiote/parasite is going to be a PC or NPC.

[gojira]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

I would just buy the symbiote and the host as a single character.

 

For example, you mention trills from Star Trek. Dax is an example of a trill with a host, and I'd buy her as a single character. The trill is just a special effect of "she has a lot of knowledge skills." It's pretty much that easy to me. All the rest -- the relationship with the host, the telepathy, the mechanics of the control -- those are all just background story and flavor. If it's possible for you to lose control, pick a disadvantage like Berserk or Enraged or maybe make something up that causes the character to slump in a heap or try to run away or something.

[psyber624]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

I agree with Gojira, except possibly adding some form of Resurrection Only healing with the limitation "Only if Host Dies" to simulate the ability to switch bodies. Of course that only works with symbiote species. Parasite species I personally would build with Mind Control and Ego Drain, and either as a GM (Or with GM's permission if I was an NPC) state that once Ego reached negative base EGO (similar to dying by negative body) They are considered "brain dead" and can no longer make breakout rolls. If this was for a PC it would of course be designed to take quite a while to reach that level, and there would be side effects for leaving a host (to prevent host hopping).

 

just my 2 cents

[Sean Waters]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

Changing hosts is your basic occasional 'radiation accident', really.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

I agree with gojira and psyber624. I think duplication might work better than resurrection. hancock.tom in the Men of mars series, there was marian race that evolved animals to look like men-without the shoulders and they rode the top like a puss covered head. I think that might be the inspiration for the TE race you mentioned.

[Asperion]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

Here is the way that I would go about handling this situation:

 

Is the parasite/simbite internal (ala trill)? Then simply write the character up as norm like the other posters above have stated. The simbite would be the reason for the char having knowlege that he should not normally possess (such as personal history from before he was born) or powers/weaknesses that normally do not exist in that race. They tend to develop long-lasting relationships with thier hosts since they stay bonded together for the life of both (onless one has a shorter lifespan than the other then the longer one will get a new host when the old one dies).

 

Is the parasite/simbite external (ala a leach)? These are actuaccly the easiest to work with, but also the most vulerable to attacks. They will move quickly from host to host and need some form of mental domination to take control of the new host (unless the host is for some reason willing), in addion to all their other abilities. Ususlly these simbiates are used as villains but nothing says that must be the way, there can be heroic members in this catageory.

 

Hopefully this helps you determine and not cnfuse you further.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

To me Follower implies an independent personality, or at very least a high level pet that would have to be written up separately. In most cases I would agree with the other posters that this is just a sfx and you should just draw the character up as a single entity.

 

If the parasite can readily hop between hosts, then you have to write up the mind control aspect of it. For this kind of thing I would probably go with a Mind Link and a Major Transform to make the host slavishly loyal so that the parasite doesn't have to make regular Mind Control rolls to keep the host dominated.

[gojira]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

If the parasite can readily hop between hosts, then you have to write up the mind control aspect of it. For this kind of thing I would probably go with a Mind Link and a Major Transform to make the host slavishly loyal so that the parasite doesn't have to make regular Mind Control rolls to keep the host dominated.

 

 

Thinking about this, if the parasite just can randomly have a new body once in a while, that might be just Multiform. For example if Joe-the-Parasite has three or four bodies back in the base he can choose to inhabit, he's got a Multiform (or maybe VPP) with a "only switch powers at base" limitation.

 

If Joe-the-Parasite can mind jack bodies on the fly, especially enemy NPCs, then I think you get into Mind Control. I might try to link Multiform to the Mind Control, so the Multiform only works if the Mind Control does.

 

If Joe-the-Parasite has BOTH of the abilities above, I think that's two separate Multiforms. One that always works and require a lim "only switch in base," and one that's linked to Mind Control. Whether the GM allows the player to buy those powers in a Multi-power or VPP or requires two separate powers not part of any framework would probably depend on the style and power levels of the campaign.

[RexMundi]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

I tend to go the build a single character route and then the critter as all the sfx with complications and limitations based on such. In my old Stargate game, it even went so far as to having additional Stats to represent which was cruising at the moment, the Host or the Critter. Could do that with a really hacked up Duplication as well.....

 

~Rex

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

To me Follower implies an independent personality' date=' or at very least a high level pet that would have to be written up separately. [/quote']

 

Reading this, I thought though about the argument that you pay for an advantage. So in this case, I can see the argument that if I paid the points for a follower, then the follower for this case should just be loyal without breakout rolls.

[taenia]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

I have done a character something like this using multiform. The primary form had a multipower with both a high level telepathic mind control and the other slot was a multiform with a small limitation, requires specific body to activate (like a focus almost) The main form was built to be very small, to represent the crystal in this case and the other was his "possessed body".

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

I just was rereading the rules for automonons and they can be bought as followers but have not resistance to ego attacks. So perhaps that is what they had in mind?

[Sean Waters]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

For a completely off the wall idea, where the parasite changes and controls the host completely, how about a transform - I KNOW, but this time it works. Transform host into a vehicle then, literally, drive it. A severe transform can make a host into an almost unstoppable robot that the parasite then climbs inside and operates. Probably not going to be as smooth as other options, but it is one more to add to the list of possibilities. I suppose, if you got your GM drunk enough, you could persuade him to let you transform the host into a focus...

[Grailknight]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

This sounds more like what Possession was made for in APG1. Maybe make it with visible outside of mental group in some cases and limitations on how easy the possessor can leave the host.

[Sean Waters]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

One way you can do it is simply with Multiform, in a VPP, linked to some sort of killing attack. Effectively you destroy the potential host then change into that host (although it would not look like a two stage process, it would look like you were squirting yourself in there somehow, but the host dying and you assuming the host powers and abilities as the upshot). I have issues with VPP multiforms, but this does not seem like too bad a use.

 

Things to think about: can the parasite survive outside a host body? Is the parasite physical or non-corporeal?

[MorpheousXO]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

In the case of Joined Trill, the symbiont is just the SFX for various knowledges, and the source of a possible weakness since the Host Trill will die if the Symbiont is removed for an extended length of time. I don't really think there needs to be any form of resurrection, really, in that case. I guess a Symbiont is more of a package deal that Trill characters can take that grants them knowledges, and excuse for your next character to have a clue what's going on if the GM lets you have another character with the same symbiont.

 

Now, if it's not like Star Trek's Joined Trill, they can be whatever you want them to be, really. I suppose the follower would make sense if the symbiote/parasite was something you could actually be in communication with. If it's the parasite that's the actual main character, and they can switch, then perhaps a multiform VPP would be in order, with strict limits on changes.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

I think that the big thing here is getting a really good handle on what the relationship here is between the entities. Is it host and parasite, where the host is damaged and the parasite gains, is it commensalism where the host is not harmed and the other organism benefits or is it a mutualistic relationship whereboth organisms benefit?

 

You need to know the basic relationship and you need to get an idea of how often the organism moves between hosts.

 

Once you have that you have the basics of knowing how it is going to need to work.

 

You want to know what the visiting organism can and cannot do when it is outside a host. Is it helpless, does it have abilities to move, attack, defend itself etc.

 

You need to compare the organism outside the host with the merged entity. That way you know what the merging provides in the way of abilities to the visiting organism. You also need to consider what the host will lose or bring to the merged entity.

 

Only after that can you really decide which of the routes above you want to take. Everyone sees a difference scenario. I was immediately thinking of the vehicle or focus options mentioned by Sean. I am sure there are situations where each example would provide a different but better solution to the quandry.

 

This is HERO. You KNOW the first thing you have to do is sit down and clearly define what it is you want to achieve...

 

Doc

[Tasha]

Re: The "parasite" or "symbiote" alien race

 

This is HERO. You KNOW the first thing you have to do is sit down and clearly define what it is you want to achieve...

 

Doc

 

This is the most important sentence in this entire thread IMHO.

 

One of the hardest things to learn when making characters in Hero is how to learn how to describe what you are doing. You often have to Look beyond the obvious. Look beyond what it IS. You have to ask yourself what it does for the character. If you know what something does for the character, the best way to write the effect up becomes obvious.

 

In this case the obvious thing would be to write each up as separate characters. Though if you really think about it, this is often the wrong way to go about it (also it's expensive for little to no gain). Instead ask yourself questions. Some I have listed below.

 

Does the Symbiote operate separate from the host often?

If the answer is yes, then you have to worry about writing up the Symbiote as a separate character. If no, then you go onto the next question.

 

Who's driving the body?

Is it shared where both consciousnesses merge (ie Trill joinings), or does the Symbiote Drive the body (ie Goa'uld Symbiote) or does the Symbiote trade off duties (ie Tok'ra Symbiote). The Merge of Consciousness is the easiest to do, as the symbiote is just a special effect for the Knowledges and other powers the symbiote gives the host. If the Symbiote has control of the body and no access to the Hosts memories, you could either ignore the host's mind as a special effect or even an "Accidental change" when the symbiote goes unconsicous. If both consciousnesses switch off at will then a multiform is in store. You could also set up a list of skills that are unique for each character and limit each set (Only for consciousness A -1/4, Only for Consciousness B -1/4) that may be the better way to go about it than a Multiform or a Multipower.

 

There's many right ways to do it. L