Chuckg Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 > So, I guess it was regular Army that knew how to remove > Spike's chip? That surgeon didn't know how to remove Spike's chip. He'd come to town to to remove Riley's implants, for which the original specs were presumably still in his medical records. They closed down the project. They didn't kill everyone who used to be in it. Re: fandom... well, I *used* to be a fan. Ever since season 6, and season 4 of Angel, I have been really, really pissed with the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 zornwil -- re: guns... well, Buffy might be personally contemptuous of them, but Wesley thinks they're a really dandy accessory to go along with his swords and axes. And has been using them fairly recently for the past several years. (And gotten at least one fairly significant demon kill with them.) Then again, Wes is the same guy who once solved the problem of a wave of attacking vampires by breaking out a flamethrower, and figured out how to kill a demon by dropping liquid nitrogen on it... Wes is cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Originally posted by Chuckg > So, I guess it was regular Army that knew how to remove > Spike's chip? That surgeon didn't know how to remove Spike's chip. He'd come to town to to remove Riley's implants, for which the original specs were presumably still in his medical records. They closed down the project. They didn't kill everyone who used to be in it. Re: fandom... well, I *used* to be a fan. Ever since season 6, and season 4 of Angel, I have been really, really pissed with the show. Why are you pissed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Originally posted by zornwil Why are you pissed? I hope you don't mind if I don't answer that one... 'cause if I got started on that, we'd be here all week. Seriously. I will, however, mention that I was a die-hard Soulless-Spike Redemptionist, and a big Cordelia fan, and a sentimental old Angel/Cordy 'shipper... and you can probably figure it out from there. Edit -- oh yeah. Redeemed!Faith fan as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Rand Posted November 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 How's this? PRIMUS and the DOSPA, and, probably other federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies, know about vampires and Hellmouths, but, unless asked for help, only share intel with the Slayers and the Trismegistus Council. Superheroes generally also share intel and get involved only when asked. The Millennium City Vamp-hunting team consists of a Slayer, her mother, who taught her martial arts, her Watcher, a researcher, who, like Giles, doesn't like computers, a computer expert and a sorceress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 I suppose that could work. Thought that occurs to me -- Did PRIMUS tell the local cops, so that cities without Slayers can at least have police response that knows when to grab the holy water, the wooden stakes, and the cross? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfly Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Chuckg, I was referring to the General (the surgeon wasn't shown) that removed Spike's chip in the demolished Initiative caves [in Season 7, The Killer In Me] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfly Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Originally posted by Mark Rand How's this? PRIMUS and the DOSPA, and, probably other federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies, know about vampires and Hellmouths, but, unless asked for help, only share intel with the Slayers and the Trismegistus Council. Superheroes generally also share intel and get involved only when asked. The Millennium City Vamp-hunting team consists of a Slayer, her mother, who taught her martial arts, her Watcher, a researcher, who, like Giles, doesn't like computers, a computer expert and a sorceress. Awesome!! Excellent Integration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Rand Posted November 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Good question Chuckg. I'm sure they did. With maybe 4,000 slayers in the world, there are probably two or three in each state. The Secret Service, FBI, PRIMUS and the DOSPA may have a few on their payroll. The revamped Initiative probably has a Slayer with each team, too. On the international scene, UNTIL probably knows about them, as do foreign governments. Some probably even have either Slayers or military vamp-hunting teams on their payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Originally posted by Nightfly Chuckg, I was referring to the General (the surgeon wasn't shown) that removed Spike's chip in the demolished Initiative caves [in Season 7, The Killer In Me] OK, /that/ one I hadn't seen. My mistake. Still, the same reasoning that was gone through with Riley's surgeon applies... they shut down the Initaitive project and debriefed all the people, but they didn't *eliminate* all the people, so they'd still have the surgeons around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Originally posted by Chuckg I hope you don't mind if I don't answer that one... 'cause if I got started on that, we'd be here all week. Seriously. I will, however, mention that I was a die-hard Soulless-Spike Redemptionist, and a big Cordelia fan, and a sentimental old Angel/Cordy 'shipper... and you can probably figure it out from there. Edit -- oh yeah. Redeemed!Faith fan as well. Fair enough. Anytime the storyline is less rewarding than the loss of favored characters (or their "status") is punitive (as one of the tactics of fiction is usually to develop our empathy for or at least identity of these characters), people have a right to be pissed, whether anyone else sees it there way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by Chuckg First off, Sunnydale has the population most determined *not* to notice anything in the entire US -- it's been a core premise of the series. Second off, has Joss never heard of something called the silencer? > authorities would be called... sorta defeats her whole > mission. *heh* Now I /know/ Joss is putting us on. When the hell have the authorities in Sunnydale ever noticed *ANYTHING*? I mean, cripes, in season 5 Riley Finn blew up a vampire lair in the cemetery with a goddamn hand grenade, and nobody ever showed. Vampires killed people every night, and the cops just closed their eyes. The entire graduating high school was using *flamethrowers* and *dynamite* in broad daylight, and the cops just called it a gas leak. When the cops in Sunnydale ever notice anything, it's the exception -- not the rule. And they had to be called in specifically by one of the Mayor's stooges (Principal Snyder) to do even that little. "In case you haven't noticed, the police in Sunnydale are profoundly stupid." -Principal Snyder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfly Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by James Gillen "In case you haven't noticed, the police in Sunnydale are profoundly stupid." -Principal Snyder As if they're geniuses anywhere else, heh heh. Sunnydale woulda made a great home for Chief D. Gates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Even worse, IMO. Chief Gates' people at least actually went to crime scenes. They might have acted horribly incompetent once they got there, but at least they still went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 When the cops in Sunnydale ever notice anything, it's the exception -- not the rule. And they had to be called in specifically by one of the Mayor's stooges (Principal Snyder) to do even that little. "In case you haven't noticed, the police in Sunnydale are profoundly stupid." -Principal Snyder I have a theory.... You don't live in Sunnydale for any length of time without realizing that there really is something going on. It is the cops' business to know what's going on in Sunnydale, and cops don't get too far by living in denial about their town. They are most emphatically not stupid. They're not-stupid enough to know that when something supernatural is going on, they'd best not poke too closely into it or they'll get killed. So they don't. They also know that as long as this "Slayer" chick isn't killing any humans, that she'll probably take care of whatever is, because hey, the rate of mysterious deaths has gone down since she came to town, for the first time in Sunnydale's recorded history. And besides, who in their right mind would believe a police report stating that, in the professional opinion of a law enforcement agent in the employ of the City of Sunnydale, this young woman was killed by a vampire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by Mark Rand Good question Chuckg. I'm sure they did. With maybe 4,000 slayers in the world, there are probably two or three in each state. The Secret Service, FBI, PRIMUS and the DOSPA may have a few on their payroll. The revamped Initiative probably has a Slayer with each team, too. On the international scene, UNTIL probably knows about them, as do foreign governments. Some probably even have either Slayers or military vamp-hunting teams on their payroll. If you figure a total Earth population of ~6 Billion, then you would get a Slayer for every 2 Million or so people, assuming a base population coverage. Since you would have certain "hot spots" that would need more attention, things wouldn't be quite so neat. Though "Scooby Gangs" to back the Slayer would defnitely make her more useful, esp. when you add some official backing and access. Being able to flash a genuine badge at the locals and get the ball rolling would be really nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by archer And besides, who in their right mind would believe a police report stating that, in the professional opinion of a law enforcement agent in the employ of the City of Sunnydale, this young woman was killed by a vampire? 1) Anybody with enough of a security clearance to know about the US Army's anti-supernatural activities 2) A lot of the cops in LA, who have seen shit that's even weirder. (Seriously, the show 'Angel' has gone into some damn-ass weird places...) Edit -- and after season 4 of Angel, well, the *entire damn world* ought to know about the supernatural... what with the sun going out over LA, and Jasmine taking over the world temporarily, and all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfly Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Chuckg, I dig your point (especially about L.A. 'n Angel), but even Kate Lockley didn't (ever to my knowledge) list Vampire as cause of death, even though she was hip [to the truth] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Rand Posted November 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Good point, Black Rose. Thank you. On a side note, when I said Millennium City vamp-hunting team, I should've said campaign city vamp-hunting team. That is, of course, if I don't figure out a way to keep the Sunndydale earthquake from happening when the Hellmouth closes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starblaze Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by Nightfly The show, nor Joss, are politically anti-gun (quite the opposite), but it is a show about prowling graveyards in the dark of night. Joss has said gunfire would surely wake up the straights, porch lights would kick on, authorities would be called... sorta defeats her whole mission. Also most Jossverse Vamps don't go in for technological devices for combat, they prefer the thrill of HTH (instead of RKAs) There are exceptions to this rule. I seem to remember Darla using twin autos on Buffy during the first season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Rand Posted November 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Why do I always forget things? When I was describing my idea, I forgot to add that each hotspot, including the Hellmouths, would have their own Slayer and her team. My interest in using Sunnydale as a campaign setting comes from the story Rainbow Over Sunnydale, which is a crossover between the Buffyverse and the Jack Ryan universe. It can be found at fanfiction.net. In another fanfiction crossover story, Giles, realizing that since woman with the potential to become a Slayer became one, there are now between 3,000 and 5,000 Slayers worldwide. It would also be possible, in a superhero world, for a mage to cast a spell that would permit the Chinese Slayer to read, write, or speak fluently in any language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Rand Posted November 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Why do I always forget things? When I was describing my idea, I forgot to add that each hotspot, including the Hellmouths, would have their own Slayer and her team. My interest in using Sunnydale as a campaign setting comes from the story Rainbow Over Sunnydale, which is a crossover between the Buffyverse and the Jack Ryan universe. It can be found at fanfiction.net. In another fanfiction crossover story, Giles, realizing that since woman with the potential to become a Slayer became one, there are now between 3,000 and 5,000 Slayers worldwide. It would also be possible, in a superhero world, for a mage to cast a spell that would permit the Chinese Slayer to read, write, or speak fluently in any language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Rand Posted November 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Oops. The third paragraph in the above posting should read: In another fanfiction crossover story, with West Wing, Giles realizing that any woman with the postential to become a Slayer would, stated that there are between 3,000 and 5,000 Slayers worldwide. As far as the earthquake goes, yes, there was one. However, outside of the school, only glass shattered. Inside the school, everything breakable broke, the doors fell out of their frames and a lot of stuff was knocked over. If you want a sappy ending, Spike regains his humanity and marries Buffy, Anya becomes human again and marries Xander, who never lost an eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Originally posted by archer I have a theory.... You don't live in Sunnydale for any length of time without realizing that there really is something going on. It is the cops' business to know what's going on in Sunnydale, and cops don't get too far by living in denial about their town. They are most emphatically not stupid. They're not-stupid enough to know that when something supernatural is going on, they'd best not poke too closely into it or they'll get killed. So they don't. That's a good point, too. I seem to remember another bit of dialogue: Snyder: Give the usual explanations. Detective: What? Gang activity, PCP? Snyder: Would you rather have them know the truth? Detective: Right. Gang activity. PCP. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 As I said, it was pretty much made explicit in season 3 that Mayor Wilkins -- who was the supervillain Big Bad *of* season 3 -- had been deliberately hand-picking the Sunnydale PD for years, to find just the right mix of apathetic schlubs who'd never bother to actually serve or protect the town. Made it much easier for the Mayor to hide his own goings-on. That's the same reason the sewer system of Sunnydale is such a convenient underground highway for vampires... Sunnydale was *built* to provide vamps with a town that they could more easily prey upon. (Mayor Wilkins' being about 100 or so years old, after all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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