UberGeek88 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I'm a 1st time Champions GM and my original team of villains were completely dominated my a PCM empath. While it was a good issue for the players, I'm planning on using Grond as a distraction for VIPER across town. I still want Grond to be a threat, but his 8 ego is a quick victim for a 9 ECV 12d6 mind control. How should I support the strongest one there is? sent from my iPod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... Viper equipped him with some small devices that attach to his temples or such and provide Mental Defense (and also allow them to shut him down if they need to). Requires a Perception roll to notice and is then an OAF to remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... Firstly, considering Grond's usual mindset, any Mind Control command other than 'smash something' is going to be a really high target. Last I checked (5e), Grond is only vulnerable to Ego Attacks, not Mind Control in general. Plus, he's going to be constantly Enraged if not Berserk (don't have access to his stats right now), which *really* hoses any Mind Control command other than 'smash something', even with Grond's 8 Ego. The simplest solution would be to give Grond some Mental Defense. If VIPER is intentionally using Grond as a distraction, they could probably trick him into putting on 'this pretty headband' (and this being VIPER, it'd be painted with green scales, difficult to detect). Alternately, they could have a plainclothes psi-agent or hired supervillain hanging around, cowering behind cover and paralyzed with fear (heh heh), while using Mental Defense Useable By Others and other mental powers to cover him, and possibly steer him in the right/wrong direction ... maybe even using the Mind Control to direct him to smash the good guys more tactically, which could be a tip-off that something's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... Firstly, considering Grond's usual mindset, any Mind Control command other than 'smash something' is going to be a really high target. Last I checked (5e), Grond is only vulnerable to Ego Attacks, not Mind Control in general. Plus, he's going to be constantly Enraged if not Berserk (don't have access to his stats right now), which *really* hoses any Mind Control command other than 'smash something', even with Grond's 8 Ego. While his Complication/Disadvantage is only for Ego Attacks, he has a low Ego and no Mental Defense. I'd say he's pretty vulnerable to any mental powers (even if he isn't Vulnerable to them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... Ego-Mind Blast, Damage Shield Cheers QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... Ego-Mind Blast, Damage Shield Cheers QM Reflection of his rage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... While his Complication/Disadvantage is only for Ego Attacks' date=' he has a low Ego and no Mental Defense. I'd say he's pretty vulnerable to any mental powers (even if he isn't Vulnerable to them).[/quote'] Yes, but ... any command other than 'smash something' is going to be a +30, plus he's likely to get +2 or +4 to his Ego roll for being Enraged or Berserk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... Yes' date=' but ... any command other than 'smash something' is going to be a +30, plus he's likely to get +2 or +4 to his Ego roll for being Enraged or Berserk.[/quote'] He is only Enraged when he thinks he has been tricked (at least according to the 6E version, I don't have the 5E version at work with me). You also make a pretty big assumption that he will definitely start the fight in that condition. His "Psychological Complication: Childishly Naive And Prone To Tantrums (Very Common, Total)" may be problematic, but it hardly makes Mind Control useless and if they know about his fear of fire Mental Illusion could be really effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... He is only Enraged when he thinks he has been tricked (at least according to the 6E version' date=' I don't have the 5E version at work with me). You also make a pretty big assumption that he will definitely start the fight in that condition. His "Psychological Complication: Childishly Naive And Prone To Tantrums (Very Common, Total)" may be problematic, but it hardly makes Mind Control useless and if they know about his fear of fire Mental Illusion could be [i']really [/i]effective. It's Grond, and he's being set up by VIPER as a patsy. Why would he *not* start the fight utterly honked off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... Another Advantage could be a VIPER Clutch Agent using Psionics to Guard/Protect Grond against rival Mentalists. Just my 2 cents. QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opale Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... I'm a 1st time Champions GM and my original team of villains were completely dominated my a PCM empath. While it was a good issue for the players, I'm planning on using Grond as a distraction for VIPER across town. I still want Grond to be a threat, but his 8 ego is a quick victim for a 9 ECV 12d6 mind control. How should I support the strongest one there is? sent from my iPod Hi ! To me, your problem is somewhere else. Though a Mentalist should be indeed a powerful key of a group, he shouldn't be able to do all the job by himself. I question myself about the balance of the so called character. Mind to post it here please ? Opale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberGeek88 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... And because I'm new to forums in general and have never been good at posting things to any boards - how would I do so? I tried using Hero Boards export format and it didn't utilize any of the the html coding - just copypasta'd it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... I have no idea what you were trying to do ... but it didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... Hi ! To me, your problem is somewhere else. Though a Mentalist should be indeed a powerful key of a group, he shouldn't be able to do all the job by himself. I question myself about the balance of the so called character. Mind to post it here please ? Opale It's probably not an issue; Grond is (and has always been) a fairly easy target for Mentalists, though the modifiers for trying to manipulate him when he's massively honked off can make it difficult. The first post says 9 ECV, 12d6 of Mind Control, which is certainly not ridiculous in any standard superhero game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... When the PC's arrive, Grond has picked up a bus filled with people. Threaten innocents immediately so they can't just mind control him without running a terrible risk if they fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberGeek88 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... To me, your problem is somewhere else. Though a Mentalist should be indeed a powerful key of a group, he shouldn't be able to do all the job by himself. I question myself about the balance of the so called character. Mind to post it here please ? Opale Starlet 26 EGO 14- ECV: 9 Emotion Control: Mind Control 12d6 (Human class of minds), Telepathic (+1/4) (75 Active Points); Set Effect (Only To Control/Inflict Emotions; -1/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... Here's the character with a board friendly export: Starlet Player: Bri Conley Val Char Cost 10 STR 0 14 DEX 12 16 CON 12 10 BODY 0 13 INT 3 26 EGO 32 20 PRE 10 22 COM 6 4/14 PD 2 4/14 ED 1 4 SPD 16 10 REC 10 45 END 7 30 STUN 7 7"/14", RUN 2 2" SWIM 0 2" LEAP 0 Characteristics Cost: 120 Cost Power 30 Empathy: Elemental Control, 60-point powers 20 1) Read Emotions: Telepathy 12d6 (Human class of minds) (60 Active Points); Empathy All Emotions (-1/2) 30 2) Emotion Control: Mind Control 12d6 (Human class of minds), Telepathic (+1/4) (75 Active Points); Set Effect (Only To Control/Inflict Emotions; -1/2) 20 3) Induced Euphoria: Ego Attack 3d6 (Human class of minds), Continuous (+1) (60 Active Points); Requires A Power: Mentalism Roll (-1/2) 20 4) Instill Fear: Drain PRE 2d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense applies; +1) (55 Active Points); Requires A Power: Mentalism Roll (-1/2) 24 5) Distracted by the Sexy: Sight and Mental Groups Flash 5d6, Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense applies; +1) (60 Active Points); Limited Power Does not work is there is nothing for the target to be attracted to (-1/4) 12 6) Empathic Healing: Healing STUN 6d6 (60 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage (Starlet Takes 1/2 Damage Healed); -1/2), Others Only (-1/2), Requires A Power: Mentalism Roll (-1/2) 10 Mental Defense (15 points total) 17 Force Field Belt: Force Field (10 PD/10 ED), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (25 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) 11 Hoverboots: Running +7" (7"/14" total), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (17 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) [Notes: Actually, Hover-Stiletto Heels] Powers Cost: 194 Cost Skill 1 Acting 8- 2 CK: Argentopolis, VA 11- 2 KS: The Superhuman World 11- 0 Language: English (idiomatic) (4 Active Points) 2 PS: Fashion Designer 11- 3 Persuasion 13- 7 Power: Mentalism 16- 3 Seduction 13- 3 Streetwise 13- 2 TF: Skiing (snow), Small Planes 1 Trading 8- Skills Cost: 26 Cost Perk 4 Money: Well Off 2 Contact: Corrina Cadeau, Pitchwoman for the Superheroes 11- 4 Contact: Ralph Polarewski, Superteam Techspert (Contact has very useful Skills or resources) 11- Perks Cost: 10 Total Character Cost: 350 Pts. Disadvantage 15 Enraged: When Attacked by Aliens (Common), go 11-, recover 14- 20 Hunted: Hephaestus 11- (As Pow; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find; Harshly Punish) 20 Hunted: Various Conservative Groups 8- (Mo Pow; NCI; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find; Mildly Punish) 20 Psychological Limitation: Glory-Hound (Very Common; Strong) 20 Psychological Limitation: Greedy (Very Common; Strong) 10 Psychological Limitation: Protective of Disadvantaged Women (Common; Moderate) 10 Psychological Limitation: Mistrusts Aliens (Uncommon; Strong) 5 Reputation: "Mercenary" Superhero, 11- (Known Only To A Small Group) 10 Rivalry: Professional (Cavalier for Contracts; Rival is More Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry) 10 Social Limitation: Famous (Frequently; Minor) 10 Susceptibility: Effected by Emotional Control 2d6 damage Instant (Uncommon) Disadvantage Points: 150 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 0 Total Experience Available: 0 Experience Unspent: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... How about giving Grond +5 Ego breakout rolls when Enraged? He's still an easy target if calm, but when he gets enraged then his mind pops out of any lasting mental effects. The turmoil in his mind just makes it hard to keep a lock on him. Also you could interpret his "enraged when Tricked" as also when he's mind controlled or Mental Illusions are used on him. Unless the egoist wastes some of their roll on "Will not remember actions +10" then Grond is going to know who Tricked him with their mental powers and take it out on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opale Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... It's probably not an issue; Grond is (and has always been) a fairly easy target for Mentalists' date=' though the modifiers for trying to manipulate him when he's massively honked off can make it difficult. The first post says 9 ECV, 12d6 of Mind Control, which is certainly not ridiculous in any standard superhero game.[/quote'] To me the prblem is not Grond, but how a mentalist could unblanace the game versus a group of opponents. But maybe I misunderstood. And yeah, Sure is not exactly the best foe to aim with a mentalist... kinda very dangerous to do so, especially if there are potential innocent bystanders around. Plus he will KNOW whoever used mental powrs on him, except imposing oneself a +10 modifier on the effect to counter that. just I say..if your PCs are so powerful that your only solution is to toss greeny Grond at them, there might be another problem. But if it's your campaign choice, so be it ! woot ! Opale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... As previously stated its your campaign, but some villains aren't appropriate for some PC groups. To note if your Mentalist dominated the previous adventure I would definitely not put someone at all susceptible to Mental Powers as the focus of the next one. That really isn't good GMing. All of your PC's should get a chance to shine and if any one PC is allowed to dominate frequently you could have a problem. Maybe shelve Grond for this battle and find someone else to be the patsy this time? You can always bring Grond out later. If you do use him make sure that whatever method you use to reduce the effectiveness isn't easily overcome (otherwise the Mentalist still winds up under the spotlight). And you can look at the math to determine what you need to do to make Grond tougher in that fight if you do decide to use him. 12d6 averages 42 and wont stray to far from that. Grond has 8 EGO so an average roll is going to be EGO + 34 for him. Her power only affects emotions so pretty much anything but "anger" should be at least +20, and anything passive in nature should be +30. However +20 is REALLY easy for her to get, and +30 will happen more often than not, so if you use MD you are going to need quite a lot (15 MD or more to make non-passive emotions less likely, and probably at least +10 to ensure the Mentalist can't pull him out of the fight). 10 MD also reduces her Continuous EGO attack to a level that shouldn't knock him out too quickly (around 11 STUN per phase) And since using either of those unsuccessfully against him should really get his attention, her 14 PD makes her a juicy target for him so she should be wary. Of course alot of this depends on how much info you give your players in a combat and how well they know the CU. (If they know Grond, and know he should be a pushover for a mentalist, then when her Mind Control fails they will be looking for a reason. If you don't tell them whats going on (or how much damage he is ACTUALLY taking from her EGO attack) then they may not look for an "MD" source at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... an alternative to MD is Damage Reduction vs Mind Control powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberGeek88 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... To me the prblem is not Grond, but how a mentalist could unblanace the game versus a group of opponents. But maybe I misunderstood. And yeah, Sure is not exactly the best foe to aim with a mentalist... kinda very dangerous to do so, especially if there are potential innocent bystanders around. Plus he will KNOW whoever used mental powrs on him, except imposing oneself a +10 modifier on the effect to counter that. just I say..if your PCs are so powerful that your only solution is to toss greeny Grond at them, there might be another problem. But if it's your campaign choice, so be it ! woot ! Opale The empath succeeded at a +30 mind control to incite fury in the villain team's martial artist (a former All-American - from Champions Universe) at the energy projector. Between the entangle and martial arts beat down down went the projector while removing the martial Artist for nearly a turn. The villains are also just starting out as a team and have yet to bond with each other. By the next time the two teams meet, the Succesion Squad (thanks Hero Boards!) will be better trained and equipped to handle the PCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayinde Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... is viper aware that your pc team will be dealing with ground ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberGeek88 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... VIPER is playing the odds that as they subtly raid the Naval Base on the city's Eastern shore, Grond will attract any and all law enforcement and superhero interlopers. VIPER is aware of the new superhero team in the city as they have been on the news repeatedly in their short time as an active group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Re: But I don't want Grond to be a pushover... just I say..if your PCs are so powerful that your only solution is to toss greeny Grond at them, there might be another problem. Nobody said that. Anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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