Ice Slides

[Uthanar]

Trying to construct Ice Slides that carry people along, or Telekinetic Flight where you carry others with you. One option is with UBN, the other that I thought about is Stretching, Does Not Cross Intervening Space and +Str to go with it. Wondering what folks generally use for it. Thanks!

[Grailknight]

My vague memories of an ancient board flame w ... uhh debate is that the best power to model Iceman was:

 

Tunneling, leave hole open, usable as an alternate movement type(flight or gliding) with the physical manifestation limitation. Since he almost never has passengers I would go with Flight with Physical manifestation for his personal use and use Barrier for the evacuation slides or bridges he creates for others.

[Uthanar]

Interesting thought on the Tunneling, but I don't remember seeing him use it to go through materials. I'm certain there are times, but just not something that I was thinking of.

 

I guess the having passengers depends on what comics it is that you are reading. Back in the X-Factor 1-70 run, he used to pull people along with him all the time.

[Beast]

I'd go with Telekinesis ,Physical Manifestation,Does not cross barriers,Limited Range(active pts in hexes or x2 meters)

Just have him tow people along while he moves

He has also use it to catch those falling to a certain death

[Cassandra]

Flight Usable With Others, maybe with a limitation that it can only be 10 hexes above ground level (-1/4).

[steriaca]

You should know by now that their is no "best way" to do things in the Hero System, simply multiple ways. I have seen ice slides writen up as eather running or flight, physical manifestation, limited power (must be ancored, -1/4), in a multipower with eather AOE or UBO. Snowblind, over on page 258 of VV3 has Running, Usable As Flight, Physical Manifestation, and Side Effects. (Appertaintly she can't make them big yet).

[Guest Goradin]

I did my ice slides like thus, I think one of the powers books gave me the idea. Delete if necessary, I do not want to violate copyrights. Multipower with 2 slots. This let's you run or make ice ijn front of you during a fall. Hope it helps.

 

Ice Slides: Multipower, 19-point reserve, (19 Active Points); all slots Side Effects (Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; Leaves big chunks of ice around the enviroment; -1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

 

a. Ice Slides: Gliding 13" (13 Active Points); Side Effects (Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; Leaves big chunks of ice around the enviroment; -1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

 

b. Ice Gliding: Running +7" (13" total), x4 Noncombat (19 Active Points); Side Effects (Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; Leaves big chunks of ice around the enviroment; -1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

 

[bigbywolfe]

Can someone explain to me why Tunneling is even in this equation?

[Guest Goradin]

mulitple post sorry.

[massey]

Can someone explain to me why Tunneling is even in this equation?

Nope. Not a clue.

[Grailknight]

Can someone explain to me why Tunneling is even in this equation?

It's ridiculous on 1st and even 2nd glance but it fits the mechanics. Usable as an alternate lets it move through air or water(easier to visualize there) and by leaving it open behind you it allows others to use it.

[Lucius]

Grailknight - thanks for the explanation, that actually makes sense, sort of.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

 

The palindromedary starts singing "Slip-sliding away....."

[Armitage]

In Champions Powers, personal ice slides are built as a Multipower with Running and Gliding, both with Physical Manifestation.

The ability to create ice slides to carry people to the ground was built as Flight, Area Effect-Line, Usable As Attack, Physical Manifestation, but that was a Defense power specifically intended to catch falling people or otherwise allow people to safely travel from a height straight to the ground. It was built with Only To Slide People To The Ground (-¼).

[Christopher]

What do you actually want here?

Do you want to carry people along as you move? UBN (especially the Transport varriation) is a way. But so might be jsut having enough STR to "carry" them. Things like "Grab" and "carring people" can be seen abstract: Being tripped while flying doesn't mean you fall out of the sky, but you still suffer Prone penalties until you spend a 1/2 Phase to "adjust" yourself.

I use a STR approach from stuff like "Green Latern expy carries his super-friends in an energy ball". They often already have a + STR slot for "power punches", but using STR instead of HTH-Attack gives me all the more utility.

Also don't forget that you can sacrifice movement to improve your STR in certain Situations.

 

Do you want something like "Plane emergency evacuation ramp"? Set it up, able to do other stuff? 6E Barrier is the way to go. You might have to use it twice.to make a stable Ramp, but otherwise it seems to be doably. If the GM wants it to be hard, he could request a Power Skill Roll for it.

 

Also, there are personal Ice-Slides in 6E1:

Ice Slides:

running +20m, usable as Flight(gliding) (+¼) (28 active points); physical Manifestation (-¼),side effects (leaves big chunks of ice around the environment; -0). total cost: 22 points.

[bigbywolfe]

It seems this response was eaten during the thread's down time.

It's ridiculous on 1st and even 2nd glance but it fits the mechanics. Usable as an alternate lets it move through air or water(easier to visualize there) and by leaving it open behind you it allows others to use it.

 

But I've never seen an Ice Slide used to Tunnel. Ever. So it doesn't fit the Mechanics. Buy Flight or Running Usable as other form of movement and you can use it in the air, on land, and in the water as well.

 

Also, "leaving it open behind you" most certainly does not allow others to "use it". When a power is "Usable as another form of Movement" it acts as the other Movement Power when used that way. You can't buy Tunneling Usable as Flight as a cheap alternative to Flight Usable By Others.

[psyber624]

It seems this response was eaten during the thread's down time.

It's ridiculous on 1st and even 2nd glance but it fits the mechanics. Usable as an alternate lets it move through air or water(easier to visualize there) and by leaving it open behind you it allows others to use it.

 

But I've never seen an Ice Slide used to Tunnel. Ever. So it doesn't fit the Mechanics. Buy Flight or Running Usable as other form of movement and you can use it in the air, on land, and in the water as well.

 

Also, "leaving it open behind you" most certainly does not allow others to "use it". When a power is "Usable as another form of Movement" it acts as the other Movement Power when used that way. You can't buy Tunneling Usable as Flight as a cheap alternative to Flight Usable By Others.

Especially since it flat out doesn't work. The rules state that when you use a "Usable as a Secondary Movement" advantage the rules of the Alternate movement power take effect and replace the rules of the Main power. So Tunneling Useable as Flight would not "Leave it open behind you", that's a rule of the tunneling power (which cannot tunnel through gases or liquids) which would not apply if you were using it as Flight.

[Christopher]

It seems this response was eaten during the thread's down time.

It's ridiculous on 1st and even 2nd glance but it fits the mechanics. Usable as an alternate lets it move through air or water(easier to visualize there) and by leaving it open behind you it allows others to use it.

 

But I've never seen an Ice Slide used to Tunnel. Ever. So it doesn't fit the Mechanics. Buy Flight or Running Usable as other form of movement and you can use it in the air, on land, and in the water as well.

 

Also, "leaving it open behind you" most certainly does not allow others to "use it". When a power is "Usable as another form of Movement" it acts as the other Movement Power when used that way. You can't buy Tunneling Usable as Flight as a cheap alternative to Flight Usable By Others.

It would be a nice idea, but seems obviously against RAW. In fact it is explicitly not allowed by RAW:

"Characters may not Tunnel through air or liquids; Tunneling only works on solid substances, such as soil."

[bigbywolfe]

Grailknight, I see you asked Steve if Tunneling could be used to travel through water or air with the Usable as Other Form of Movement Adder. We never said it wasn't. Of course you can add that Modifier to pretty much any Movement Power and the way you worded the question misses the point entirely. When you use Running or Tunneling or Swimming that has UaOFoM as Flight, then it follows all the rules of Flight. If you add Usable as Flight to your Running you don't get to have No Turn Mode on your Flight for free just because Running doesn't have a turn mode. Likewise if you use Usable as Swimming and Flight on your Tunneling you don't magically make "tunnels" through the air and water that other people can walk on because it acts like Swimming and Flight respectively when used those ways.

[Grailknight]

Grailknight, I see you asked Steve if Tunneling could be used to travel through water or air with the Usable as Other Form of Movement Adder. We never said it wasn't. Of course you can add that Modifier to pretty much any Movement Power and the way you worded the question misses the point entirely. When you use Running or Tunneling or Swimming that has UaOFoM as Flight, then it follows all the rules of Flight. If you add Usable as Flight to your Running you don't get to have No Turn Mode on your Flight for free just because Running doesn't have a turn mode. Likewise if you use Usable as Swimming and Flight on your Tunneling you don't magically make "tunnels" through the air and water that other people can walk on because it acts like Swimming and Flight respectively when used those ways.

I agree with your argument for accepting the rules of the power being simulated but your example is a poor one. By RAW, tunneling is the ONLY movement power that can be used as flight as it is the only one that is more expensive. 6e1 p.158

[Christopher]

"I agree with your argument for accepting the rules of the power being simulated but your example is a poor one. By RAW, tunneling is the ONLY movement power that can be used as flight as it is the only one that is more expensive. 6e1 p.158 "

This is not a proper interpreatation of the Rules. Granted the original sentence can cause your confusion: "To use this Advantage, a character must apply it to the more expensive of the Movement Powers he wants to use."

This rule doesn't affect equally priced movement Powers. It only means you cannot buy Leaping or Swimming, Useable as Flight/Running. Because leaping/swimming (by default pricing 1 CP/2m) is less expensive the Flight or Running (1 CP/1m).

If you wanted Swimming and Flight in one power, you would have to buy "Flight, useable as Swimming". The book even has multiple examples of equally priced Movement Powers having Useable as oFoM

[bigbywolfe]

Grailknight, I see you asked Steve if Tunneling could be used to travel through water or air with the Usable as Other Form of Movement Adder. We never said it wasn't. Of course you can add that Modifier to pretty much any Movement Power and the way you worded the question misses the point entirely. When you use Running or Tunneling or Swimming that has UaOFoM as Flight, then it follows all the rules of Flight. If you add Usable as Flight to your Running you don't get to have No Turn Mode on your Flight for free just because Running doesn't have a turn mode. Likewise if you use Usable as Swimming and Flight on your Tunneling you don't magically make "tunnels" through the air and water that other people can walk on because it acts like Swimming and Flight respectively when used those ways.

If you are dealing with two movement powers that are differently priced like Leaping and Running you can not put the advantage on the cheaper one. That in no way, shape, or form means that they have to have different prices.

[bigbywolfe]

Grailknight, I see you asked Steve if Tunneling could be used to travel through water or air with the Usable as Other Form of Movement Adder. We never said it wasn't. Of course you can add that Modifier to pretty much any Movement Power and the way you worded the question misses the point entirely. When you use Running or Tunneling or Swimming that has UaOFoM as Flight, then it follows all the rules of Flight. If you add Usable as Flight to your Running you don't get to have No Turn Mode on your Flight for free just because Running doesn't have a turn mode. Likewise if you use Usable as Swimming and Flight on your Tunneling you don't magically make "tunnels" through the air and water that other people can walk on because it acts like Swimming and Flight respectively when used those ways.

Here's the passage you reference Grail (with bold parts emphasized by me):

 

Usable [As Second Mode Of Movement] (+¼): A

character can use this Advantage, which requires

the GM’s permission, to make his main Movement

Power function as a second mode of movement.

Examples include: Flight that’s usable underwater

as if it were Swimming; and ice slides defined as

both Running and Gliding Flight (so the character

can create one when he’s falling and “skate”

to the ground safely). When used as the second

mode of movement, the power is subject to all

rules governing that Movement Power, instead of

the rules for the primary Movement Power. For

example, Running usable as Gliding Flight has

a Turn Mode when the character Glides, even

though Running itself doesn’t have a Turn Mode.

 

So that clears up the whole "leaving a whole in the water/air that others can use" thing you mentioned. Right on the page you told me to look.

 

To use this Advantage, a character must apply

it to the more expensive of the Movement Powers

he wants to use. He can’t buy the cheaper one and

then use the Advantage to make it function like

the more expensive one.

 

I put it in bold but I'll re-emphasize it. The more expensive of the Movement Powers he wants to use. That does not mean you have to purchase two forms of movement that have different costs, that means if your two forms of movement have different costs you have to apply it to the more expensive one. The reason for this ruling is pretty obvious and there is an example in the very next sentence.

 

For example, he can’t buy

Swimming (which costs 1 Character Point per 2m)

and then use the Advantage to make it function

like Flight (which costs 1 Character Point per 1m)

— he has to buy Flight and make it function like

Swimming.

[Grailknight]

Grailknight, I see you asked Steve if Tunneling could be used to travel through water or air with the Usable as Other Form of Movement Adder. We never said it wasn't. Of course you can add that Modifier to pretty much any Movement Power and the way you worded the question misses the point entirely. When you use Running or Tunneling or Swimming that has UaOFoM as Flight, then it follows all the rules of Flight. If you add Usable as Flight to your Running you don't get to have No Turn Mode on your Flight for free just because Running doesn't have a turn mode. Likewise if you use Usable as Swimming and Flight on your Tunneling you don't magically make "tunnels" through the air and water that other people can walk on because it acts like Swimming and Flight respectively when used those ways.

I stand corrected and apologize for my error. For some reason my mind is stuck on Flight costing 2pts. per +1".

[Grailknight]

"I agree with your argument for accepting the rules of the power being simulated but your example is a poor one. By RAW, tunneling is the ONLY movement power that can be used as flight as it is the only one that is more expensive. 6e1 p.158 "

This is not a proper interpreatation of the Rules. Granted the original sentence can cause your confusion: "To use this Advantage, a character must apply it to the more expensive of the Movement Powers he wants to use."

This rule doesn't affect equally priced movement Powers. It only means you cannot buy Leaping or Swimming, Useable as Flight/Running. Because leaping/swimming (by default pricing 1 CP/2m) is less expensive the Flight or Running (1 CP/1m).

If you wanted Swimming and Flight in one power, you would have to buy "Flight, useable as Swimming". The book even has multiple examples of equally priced Movement Powers having Useable as oFoM

See my apology above.

[bigbywolfe]

Grailknight, I see you asked Steve if Tunneling could be used to travel through water or air with the Usable as Other Form of Movement Adder. We never said it wasn't. Of course you can add that Modifier to pretty much any Movement Power and the way you worded the question misses the point entirely. When you use Running or Tunneling or Swimming that has UaOFoM as Flight, then it follows all the rules of Flight. If you add Usable as Flight to your Running you don't get to have No Turn Mode on your Flight for free just because Running doesn't have a turn mode. Likewise if you use Usable as Swimming and Flight on your Tunneling you don't magically make "tunnels" through the air and water that other people can walk on because it acts like Swimming and Flight respectively when used those ways.

It happens. Though even if it was you still could of had Flight be the base power with Usable as Running and Swimming.