Rebuilding DEMON

[Lord Liaden]

GM: Guys, you see a carnivorous beetle crawl out of the corner of his mouth. And another, and another...He seems to be vomiting up beetles and blood. What do you do?

 

 

Sorry, one last response.

 

I might pour water down his throat and try to drown the beetles. Or if I have Mind Control effective against animals, I'd command the beetles to stop. Or if it's obviously magic at work I'd throw my biggest Dispel or Suppress spell if I have one. Or if it's detectably a Mental attack I'd try putting more Mental Defense around him, or between him and the source. Since the Uncontrolled attack is supposed to be stopped by something reasonably obvious, I would expect one of these to be effective.

[Cassandra]

When dealing with the Devil, remember, he can't do anything for you or to you unless you agree to it.

[Lord Liaden]

When dealing with the Devil, remember, he can't do anything for you or to you unless you agree to it.

 

Depends entirely on your interpretation of the Devil. The Faust/Daniel Webster deal-maker is only one tradition. And even if he exists he may only be "a" devil, not "The" Devil. In the CU some devils may bargain with you, while others might just squash you like a grape.

[Badger]

I'll solve this Luther Black business

 

 

Somewhere in Japan.......

 

Light Yagami writes a name in a notebook the name reads........Luther Black.

 

 

Note:  Actually I know the problems with this, (likely both of CU and Death Note varieties) I just had to poke a little fun at this.

[Ninja-Bear]

Nope, Sloth should be in charge of entertainment media. Television, movies, music, gaming, Internet. Turn people into passive consumers, complacent absorbers of amusements. Sheep primed to be herded however DEMON wants.

Like Disney? (Who knew mouses were so evil) just kidding.

[Shiva13]

Here's the crux of my whole arguement here. I do not like the Luther Black version of DEMON at all. I prefer the original depiction from the original sourcebook.

 

So that is why I chose the direction that I did.

[pinecone]

Here's the crux of my whole arguement here. I do not like the Luther Black version of DEMON at all. I prefer the original depiction from the original sourcebook.

 

So that is why I chose the direction that I did.

 I gotta agree, I don't like any "Uber-mega-stompy, Cosmic yadda yadda"  Villians at all. "Back in the day" I ran Demon as even more fractured, with traditional mages, Lovcraftian cultists (with Alien sponsors), and a Necromancer/ Demonologist "secret masters" cell structure all of whom sponsor and manipulate the "front" org....

[Lord Liaden]

Here's the crux of my whole arguement here. I do not like the Luther Black version of DEMON at all. I prefer the original depiction from the original sourcebook.

 

So that is why I chose the direction that I did.

 

As you have every right to.

 

If you'd like input from us, what kind would you find helpful?

[Shiva13]

As you have every right to.

 

If you'd like input from us, what kind would you find helpful?

 

DEMON is supposed to be an enigma. As should be all arcane organizations. Mystery is a huge part of what makes magic fearsome and what it is. It's that sense of the unknown that needs to be preserved;. So having too much of the background of DEMON revealed goes counter to that.

 

The Luther Black version of DEMON has no mystery to it at all. All of its goals are outlined in specific detail. There are no mysteries to it. Just overwhelming power. And honestly, that's not good for a GM and not good for making fun memorable stories for your players. They will just be waiting for that big hammer to fall. Where is the fun in that?

[assault]

Of course in theory the players shouldn't know about Luther Black and his plan.

 

The goals are outlined *for the GM*, and, naturally, can be modified. In fact, they should be modified, if the players show any sign of knowing "what is really going on".

 

For the record, my problem with LB's plot was that it couldn't be stopped by the PCs. Even specialist mystics would be lucky to know what was going on, let alone what to do about it.

 

This was, oddly, reflected in the version of the outcome of the plot intended for use in Galactic Champions campaigns. Heroes had essentially nothing to do with the outcome.

[Ninja-Bear]

What if Luthor Black is a boogyman promoted by the p.r. wing of DEMON? He doesn't really exist but to scareand be a red herring for the heroe?

[bubba smith]

that idea could work

[Lord Liaden]

DEMON is supposed to be an enigma. As should be all arcane organizations. Mystery is a huge part of what makes magic fearsome and what it is. It's that sense of the unknown that needs to be preserved;. So having too much of the background of DEMON revealed goes counter to that.

 

The Luther Black version of DEMON has no mystery to it at all. All of its goals are outlined in specific detail. There are no mysteries to it. Just overwhelming power. And honestly, that's not good for a GM and not good for making fun memorable stories for your players. They will just be waiting for that big hammer to fall. Where is the fun in that?

 

Okay, I really don't want to sound disrespectful and sarcastic, and I apologise if I come across that way; but to be frank, I don't get this argument at all. DEMON: Servants Of Darkness lays out everything in detail for the Game Master. Players, and their characters, shouldn't know any of this information, at least at the beginning of a campaign. Moreover, the different layers of DEMON are deliberately kept in the dark about all the mysteries of the organization. The people DEMON recruits are typically brought into the cult believing it to be some other type of group. The Initiates, Brothers, even the Morbanes, have been deliberately misled as to what DEMON is about and the powers it serves. Individual Demonhames have their own priorities and ways of operation, often keeping a low profile while masquerading as something else. The Inner Circle and their minions are purposefully kept separate from the rest of DEMON's structure and operations, and don't know what they're ultimately intended for. The Inverted Trinity are rarely seen acting directly, and the Edomite is only a rumor to any below the Inner Circle. The Trinity and Luther Black are the only beings who know DEMON's real purpose, and if a GM doesn't like that purpose he can easily leave them out and use all the other diverse elements of the organization as desired.

 

Are you saying that you wish to replace all of that with a group who, as per Organizations Book II, uses uniformed high-tech soldiers and costumed magic-mace-wielding Morbanes to conduct smash-and-grab thefts of powerful mystic artifacts? If so, I'm sorry, but I have trouble seeing how that inherently leads to more "mystery."

 

EDIT: All that aside, I ask again, would you like our assistance in developing your version of DEMON? Or is your intent to argue the appropriateness of your choice?

[Lord Liaden]

For the record, my problem with LB's plot was that it couldn't be stopped by the PCs. Even specialist mystics would be lucky to know what was going on, let alone what to do about it.

 

This was, oddly, reflected in the version of the outcome of the plot intended for use in Galactic Champions campaigns. Heroes had essentially nothing to do with the outcome.

 

Well, this was carrying through the plot from the point where the background of the book leaves it, without any further complications. There are a number of avenues given to PCs to prevent it reaching its climax; and even at the climax it can (and should) be PC heroes who thwart it.

 

Black is eminently eliminatable in a direct confrontation. Doing that before the culmination of his grand scheme would still leave a large, complex, powerful organization for the GM to take in a preferred direction.

[Marcus Impudite]

Looking at Black's sheet, I'm amazed none of his underlings have pulled a Starscream on him yet; 150-point VPP or not. Cut him off from any supplies of human sacrifices he may have, wait for him to run out of mana, and then trash the life support machines that are keeping him alive; that would be the end of him PDQ.

[Lord Liaden]

The only ones who know where Black is, and what his condition is, are the Inverted Trinity. Two of them are slaves to Luther's will, and the Left Hand believes his "father's" apotheosis will enhance his own power and glory. But Lefty's ego is increasingly problematic, and Black fears he may have to eliminate the Hand before he becomes uncontrollable. (I've considered some scenarios for an internal overthrow of the Edomite.)

[TheQuestionMan]

Apotheosis Now! = Hellgate London with Superhumans.

[TheQuestionMan]

Hmmm... Post Apocalyptic Champions.

 

Hmmm...

 

QM