Can you help you cut this character down to only 400 points ?

[Tom2405]

Also like i had said during the game that counts as power stunt (with how the power is currently built with no entangle). You can do it once maybe twice (thus a handful of times) but then you need to buy it ( either the power upgraded to have entangle which it then always does or you buy a second power that does the entangle. Your choice there )to be able to use your power continuously that way.

[Ninja-Bear]

Tom iirc you can buy an advantage for desolid to avoid gases. But from a gm/gaming spective I understand if you don't want to allow it. I agree with ine if the rules-hust because it is legal doesn't me it should be allowed.

[Diamond Spear]

you mean isntead of the other 2 powers? then we would have the same situation as before again as we have an autoimmunity against physical attacks,...

(also desolied doesnt work against gasous powers)

 

the mainprob is also with the original idea of basic that it would be autoimmune (the 14- roll is no 14- roll but a skillroll so we can see 18- there after some sessions).

And autoimmune is something that I want to avoid as from experience that always leads to an arms war between the player involved and the gm (have it seen quite a few times

and heard of it in additional cases). also that reminds me a bit too much of mmo's (immune to physical attacks......use the tank to distract him and then use sorcerers only)

 

 

also a desolification trigger + a teleport trigger that are there to avoid damage are in effect a 100DC damage negation or a 100% damage reduction and that for almost no cost

compared with those (and like I mentioned before also all things pc's can do theoretically npc can do and I dont think a pc is happy when he hears "Ok I managed the skillroll of 16- so youra ttack is completely negated because of my trigger" despite the PC hitting him with a roll of 18 with his strongest attack that leaves him unconscious afterwards)

 

One other thing to consider is just not allowing the power, at least not to start. In my experience a lot of times when it takes this much discussion on a defensive power it turns out to be a problem power down the road.

 

Heck, it doesn't even have to be a defensive power; I once let a player argue me into allowing a character with the following combination of powers: Flight, Invisibility with no fringe and a No Normal Defense Attack with invisible power effects. What I failed to realize was that the character could hover safely out of the way, no one could see them and no one could tell where thier attacks were coming from. It was EXTREMELY unbalanceing.

[Tom2405]

@ninja the cost of desolidificate would be much higher though than the 3m teleport if I remember correctly (especially with the not affected by gases modifier). Also

some attacks CAN still affect one (I think there is a affects desolidificate adder somewhere) 

 

 

@Diamond: My problem was not really the strongness of the power itself, as I knew immediatetly how to counter it (and tbh I also saw immedieately how to counter basics whole char) , the problem I saw was

more the low point cost for what he intended to do which was in no relation to other powers AND the applicatiion of one simple rule: Everything that a player can do an NPC possibly also can do.

And I don't think basic would be happy if anyone now or later has a 14- or 16- roll to avoid everything basic can dish out (as I don't think that that is funny for the player). 

That is why I am quite concerned when it comes to powers especially if they can be built differently which causes no concerns (like a +DCV which triggers a teleportation if 

the dcv would be enough to stop the attack). Also one concern I always have is that an arms race between gm and player starts (which is never good and should be avoided where possible,

done it once until I almost one hit killed a player character without intention [was a vampire who got attacked by a crocodile in another system that shocked me into form there^^])

[Basic204]

Well I already changed the power now its armor piercing so I can get thorough stuff that normally blocks me from teleporting. 

[Tom2405]

Well I already changed the power now its armor piercing so I can get thorough stuff that normally blocks me from teleporting. 

Uhm what are you talking about there exactly? (your answer seems in no context to the last few posts)

[Greywind]

Unless something has changed, AP reduces the target's defenses. Nothing more.

[Tom2405]

He talks about teleportation with armour piercing that counters "cannot be escaped with teleportation" but still I dont get the context of what he is talkinga bout currently 

[Greywind]

Teleportation doesn't interact with PD/ED, so I don't know where the idea that AP would bypass a "cannot" comes from.

[Tom2405]

Page 302  Heroes 6th edition book 1. Left column bottom "Armour piercing" there it is stated. Would have been better if they had renamed the advnatage for this so that it doesnt create "uh for real" moments (had one myself when I first heard of the armour piercing advantage) but one can't have everything sadly. 

[bigbywolfe]

Teleportation doesn't interact with PD/ED, so I don't know where the idea that AP would bypass a "cannot" comes from.

AP has allowed Teleport to get through "Cannot Escape with Teleport" materials/Entangles since at least 5E (I believe 4E, but am not sure).

[Lucius]

I thought they dropped that for this edition?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Armor Piercing Palindromedary

[bigbywolfe]

I wouldn't be surprised if my memory was wrong, but considering one post above me where Tom even cited the page he found the rule on...

[Tom2405]

I had looked it up when basic mentioned it so nope wasnt dropped (at least from 6th edition books.....no clue about the champions books maybe dropped there)

[Greywind]

AP has allowed Teleport to get through "Cannot Escape with Teleport" materials/Entangles since at least 5E (I believe 4E, but am not sure).

 

Eh, so it is. Never noticed. Most likely because no one has found need to use it.

[Diamond Spear]

@ninja the cost of desolidificate would be much higher though than the 3m teleport if I remember correctly (especially with the not affected by gases modifier). Also

some attacks CAN still affect one (I think there is a affects desolidificate adder somewhere) 

 

 

@Diamond: My problem was not really the strongness of the power itself, as I knew immediatetly how to counter it (and tbh I also saw immedieately how to counter basics whole char) , the problem I saw was

more the low point cost for what he intended to do which was in no relation to other powers AND the applicatiion of one simple rule: Everything that a player can do an NPC possibly also can do.

And I don't think basic would be happy if anyone now or later has a 14- or 16- roll to avoid everything basic can dish out (as I don't think that that is funny for the player). 

That is why I am quite concerned when it comes to powers especially if they can be built differently which causes no concerns (like a +DCV which triggers a teleportation if 

the dcv would be enough to stop the attack). Also one concern I always have is that an arms race between gm and player starts (which is never good and should be avoided where possible,

done it once until I almost one hit killed a player character without intention [was a vampire who got attacked by a crocodile in another system that shocked me into form there^^])

The more I think about this power the more it concerns me since it comes off very much like the player is trying to never take damage. I'm not sure if that's what's happening here but I've played with people like that before and it seldom ends well.

 

@Basic. How does this power tie in with the rest of the character concept? Why would it manifest? What is your intention in including it? How upset would you be if it were disallowed? Would you be willing to drop it for now and buy it with experience later once both you and Tom are more familiar with the rules? If not why not?

 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm just trying to figure out how important the power is to the character as well as you as the player.

[Basic204]

I was just getting power from the book under the teleport power. After the GM said it makes it look like I would never take damage. I dropped it and changed it already to something else. It now has armor piercing so I can use to escape from stuff that says I can't teleport through it.

 

 

 Also for future reference this is the power from the book that I took.

 

REFLEX TELEPORTATION

Effect: Teleportation 10m, Trigger (after

Teleporting or using a Teleportation-

related power)

Target: Self

Duration: Constant

Range: Self

END Cost: 2

Description: To give himself some extra combat

flexibility, the teleporter has learned how to

activate a short-range Teleport at the end of other

uses of Teleportation or various Teleportation

tricks. This is particularly handy for (a) getting

away from opponents in HTH Combat range, and

( not having to return to the character’s starting

location with powers like Teleportation Boxing.

 

Game Information: Teleportation 10m, Trigger

(whenever character wants to after after Teleporting

or using a Teleportation-related power,

activating Trigger takes no time, Trigger immediately

automatically resets; +1). Total cost:

20 points.

Alexander Frost Spatial Manulipulation Superhero updated 5-31-14.pdf

[Tom2405]

that one still functions differently then you understood it.

 

THAT one triggers AFTER someone activates a teleportation related power. thus you use such apower you can teleport for 10m afterwards. 

[Basic204]

that one still functions differently then you understood it.

 

THAT one triggers AFTER someone activates a teleportation related power. thus you use such apower you can teleport for 10m afterwards. 

 

 

Or use one of my attacks like teleport boxing

[Tom2405]

didnt mean someone meant your own powers (thus inlcluding teleport boxin) 

[Basic204]

Concept of characters costume. Still working on it but this is what i got so far. Thinking he might have a eye mask he uses and a helmet as back up for other stuff. hmmm gonna change a few more things. I gave him a sword because swords are cool. Thinking about changing the color maybe to a grey or a dark purple/ green. I thought about a cape but no on that. Thinking maybe when he has time he will build a HUD in the helmet. 

 

[Tasha]

Character looks like a villain... esp with that sword.

[Greywind]

Sword isn't a danger. Easy to disarm. He's got a loose grip on it.

[Hyper-Man]

AP has allowed Teleport to get through "Cannot Escape with Teleport" materials/Entangles since at least 5E (I believe 4E, but am not sure).

 

Yep.

 

From Hero System 6e

Volume 1: Character Creation Chapter Five page 173

Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation (+¼):

Ordinarily, a character can escape from an englobing Barrier by Teleporting out of it. Characters cannot Teleport out of an englobing Barrier with this Advantage — unless the Teleportation is Armor Piercing, which cancels out this Advantage. (Characters may buy multiple levels of Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation to prevent this if desired, or multiple levels of Armor Piercing to counteract that.)

 

 

The change in 6e that folks might be thinking of is the separation of defenses for Armor Piercing and Penetrating.

In 5e and earlier both were stopped by Hardened.  In 6e, Hardened only stops Armor Piercing and Impenetrable is the new defense vs. Penetrating.

 

If a character with teleportation powers had an ability to teleport others at range (built with Teleportation UAA & Ranged*) and tried to use the ability vs. a target behind a Barrier built with the CBEWT Advantage above as well as Hardened then the Teleportation would need Armor Piercing & Indirect to get past the Barrier.

 

*Ranged in this case defines how far away something/someone can be from the character and still be affected by the Usable As Attack ability.  How far they can be teleported if affected at all is still figured by the Teleportation power itself.  These 2 ranges are usually the same (think Star Trek transporters) but they don't have to be.  JLU:Animated had an episode where the Martian Manhunter responded to an emergency transporter request from Green Arrow and Black Canary (they were on a motorcycle in a subway tunnel about to collide head-on with a train)  they were transported outside to the nearby body of water (NOT the JL spacestation).

[Basic204]

Character looks like a villain... esp with that sword.

 

I did the sword because I think swords are awesome. Also this a prototype. So far thinking I will change the color of the costume also. Hmmm thinking a dark purple.with green. Hmmmm any color plate suggestions ?

 

What makes him seems like a villain ?