Uncontrolled RECovery

[Lucius]

Uncontrolled is an Advantage that lets me use a Power, including whatever requisites the Power has  - expend a half phase and make an Attack roll for example for an Attack Power - and then get the benefit of the Power phase after phase, with the caveat that there is some way for someone else to "turn it off."

 

Is there any reason I'm not seeing why I can't put Uncontrolled on RECovery, take a recovery, and then regain that REC value each phase thereafter?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I already have the palindromedary's opinions

[Grailknight]

Sure as long as you are 0 DCV and don't take any damage.

[Hyper-Man]

Uncontrolled Healing vs. Stun and Endurance is what you are really looking for.

[Scott Baker]

Recovering is an action, not a power.

[Lucius]

Sure as long as you are 0 DCV and don't take any damage.

 

I see the point about not taking damage. Why do you say 0 DCV when the rules say taking a recovery puts a character at half DCV?

 

Recovering is an action, not a power.

 

Obviously, And obviously no one can put an Advantage on an action. I can't put the Uncontrolled Advantage on the Strike maneuver, either. I CAN put an Uncontrolled Advantage on an Attack Power, such as STR, and then hit someone with it using the Strike maneuver.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

the palindromedary says I forgot someone

[Lucius]

Uncontrolled Healing vs. Stun and Endurance is what you are really looking for.

 

That may be what I am looking FOR, but it is not what I am right now looking AT.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Making the palindromedary happy

[Scott Baker]

I see the point about not taking damage. Why do you say 0 DCV when the rules say taking a recovery puts a character at half DCV?

 

 

Obviously, And obviously no one can put an Advantage on an action. I can't put the Uncontrolled Advantage on the Strike maneuver, either. I CAN put an Uncontrolled Advantage on an Attack Power, such as STR, and then hit someone with it using the Strike maneuver.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

the palindromedary says I forgot someone

You really seem to want to belabor this.

 

Lets go with uncontrolled powers use END from a pool and Recovering costs no endurance. And there's that big old Stop Sign on the advantage cautioning GMs to look out for abusive builds. So, never in my game.

 

Cue the reply about adding the Costs Endurance limitation to the REC....

[Lucius]

You really seem to want to belabor this.

 

Lets go with uncontrolled powers use END from a pool and Recovering costs no endurance. And there's that big old Stop Sign on the advantage cautioning GMs to look out for abusive builds. So, never in my game.

 

Cue the reply about adding the Costs Endurance limitation to the REC....

Thank you.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary, Costs END only to Activate

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah a Heal to Stun and END would be better.

 

This kind of reminds me of when you got back points from drains based on your recovery score; something I actually prefer, but it had a hideous trap.  If you drained someone's REC to 0 they never healed anything back.  I even came up with a monster that was the result of dying from this effect in my Fantasy Hero game.

[Lucius]

Yeah a Heal to Stun and END would be better.

 

This kind of reminds me of when you got back points from drains based on your recovery score; something I actually prefer, but it had a hideous trap.  If you drained someone's REC to 0 they never healed anything back.  I even came up with a monster that was the result of dying from this effect in my Fantasy Hero game.

A long term Drain on REC is STILL a hideous trap, but not as cheap as it used to be.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Buying Power Defense against anyone trying to Drain Palindromedary

[Hyper-Man]

A long term Drain on REC is STILL a hideous trap, but not as cheap as it used to be.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Buying Power Defense against anyone trying to Drain Palindromedary

 

Yep - it's the base mechanic of suffocation so it should be considered nasty.

[Tech]

Uncontrolled is an Advantage that lets me use a Power, including whatever requisites the Power has  - expend a half phase and make an Attack roll for example for an Attack Power - and then get the benefit of the Power phase after phase, with the caveat that there is some way for someone else to "turn it off."

 

Is there any reason I'm not seeing why I can't put Uncontrolled on RECovery, take a recovery, and then regain that REC value each phase thereafter?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I already have the palindromedary's opinions

 

I can think of a way to do this, and still keep it rules legal: +50 Recovery: spread out over the course of a turn (-1/4).

 

Of course, the RECovery number is arbitrary but this works. You take a recovery and you get a REC value on each of your phases.

[Lucius]

I can think of a way to do this, and still keep it rules legal: +50 Recovery: spread out over the course of a turn (-1/4).

 

Of course, the RECovery number is arbitrary but this works. You take a recovery and you get a REC value on each of your phases.

As far as I know, no one has determined that Uncontrolled REC is NOT rules legal. What you're proposing sounds like Damage over Time.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

There's nothing in the rule book that says a palindromedary can't play.

[IndianaJoe3]

As far as I know, no one has determined that Uncontrolled REC is NOT rules legal. What you're proposing sounds like Damage over Time.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

There's nothing in the rule book that says a palindromedary can't play.

 

It does seem to follow RAW. Good luck getting approval from the GM.        ⚠

[Hugh Neilson]

Well, let's look at the rules.

 

To be eligible for Uncontrolled, the power must first be Constant.  You activate it, and it starts working, until either the END you fed it runs out or its reasonably obvious and common shutoff condition occurs.  Extreme wariness is suggested if it costs no END.

 

Characteristics are Persistent (6e v1 p 178).  It remains Turned On and draws END as long as END is available.  As it costs no END, it remains turned on until the character decides to turn it off, or dies.

 

Since REC is not Constant, but Persistent, you cannot apply Uncontrolled without first Limiting your REC to be Nonpersistent.  This seems very dangerous - if you shut off your uncontrolled REC, or someone triggers its fairly common and obvious shutdown condition, you have to turn it back on again.  If you cannot, perhaps because you are not conscious, then you have no REC, and can never regain consciousness barring outside healing.

 

An alternate interpretation would be that Persistent and Uncontrolled are the same advantage, so you can't both remove Persistent and put it back with Uncontrolled (just as you cannot purchase a Ranged Hand Attack because you can't have both No Range and Range on the same power).

 

You are also assuming Uncontrolled makes it work every phase.  Where does RAW provide this information?  An Uncontrolled Power which is an attack acts every phase, but nothing says what happens to non-attack powers.  REC, when persistent, provides you with a Recovery at PS 12 and in each other phase you dedicate to taking a recovery.  It seems like Uncontrolled Recovery would do the same thing.  If you do nothing else, and accept halving your DCV, you get a recovery.

 

It seems a poor choice to apply the -1/4 Nonpersistent limitation to add the +1/2 Uncontrolled advantage and end up with a weaker version of REC, but the math often does not work perfectly in reverse, and this looks like one of those constructs - you could, but why would you?

[Lucius]

Well, let's look at the rules.

 

To be eligible for Uncontrolled, the power must first be Constant.  You activate it, and it starts working, until either the END you fed it runs out or its reasonably obvious and common shutoff condition occurs.  Extreme wariness is suggested if it costs no END.

 

Characteristics are Persistent (6e v1 p 178).  It remains Turned On and draws END as long as END is available.  As it costs no END, it remains turned on until the character decides to turn it off, or dies.

 

Since REC is not Constant, but Persistent, you cannot apply Uncontrolled without first Limiting your REC to be Nonpersistent.

So by this reasoning, I couldn't apply Uncontrolled to STR either.

 

This seems very dangerous - if you shut off your uncontrolled REC, or someone triggers its fairly common and obvious shutdown condition, you have to turn it back on again.  If you cannot, perhaps because you are not conscious, then you have no REC, and can never regain consciousness barring outside healing.

Then there would be a separate purchase of Nonpersistant Uncontrolled REC, instead of applying the modifiers to the character's base REC score. Unless it's part of the character conception that the character needs outside intervention to recover from unconsciousness.

 

An alternate interpretation would be that Persistent and Uncontrolled are the same advantage, so you can't both remove Persistent and put it back with Uncontrolled (just as you cannot purchase a Ranged Hand Attack because you can't have both No Range and Range on the same power).

 

You are also assuming Uncontrolled makes it work every phase.  Where does RAW provide this information?

 

 

6th edition vol 1 3rd sentence of the 2nd paragraph under Uncontrolled: "The uncontrolled Power runs for as long as there's END to power it." If "runs" doesn't mean "works" I don't know what it means.

 

But you do make a very powerful argument which I've bolded:

 

An Uncontrolled Power which is an attack acts every phase, but nothing says what happens to non-attack powers.  REC, when persistent, provides you with a Recovery at PS 12 and in each other phase you dedicate to taking a recovery.  It seems like Uncontrolled Recovery would do the same thing.  If you do nothing else, and accept halving your DCV, you get a recovery.

 

It seems a poor choice to apply the -1/4 Nonpersistent limitation to add the +1/2 Uncontrolled advantage and end up with a weaker version of REC, but the math often does not work perfectly in reverse, and this looks like one of those constructs - you could, but why would you?

I find it hard to argue with the position that since REC is by default Persistent, the way it would run - or work - while Uncontrolled would be about the same as how it operates (runs, works,) by default.

 

Darn it. If I can't find a logical way to refute that then I may have to concede that you're right.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

the palindromedary wonders if that's true about not being able to put Uncontrolled on STR....

[Christopher R Taylor]

Recovery is kind of weird, because while it will automatically activate when you are at rest or unconscious, it doesn't work while you're busy doing anything else.  In fact, you have to consciously mean to recover in combat even if you're 0 DCV and doing nothing else.

[Lucius]

 

Can anyone else see a way around Hugh Neilson's logic? I gave up.

 

 

 

And now I HAVE looked at Healing Uncontrolled, and didn't like what I saw there.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Uncontrolled palindromedary

 

 

[Lucius]

We can't delete posts anymore?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Feed it to the palindromedary

[Lucius]

If I can't put Uncontrolled on REC, I can apparently put it on Posting

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Help! My palindromedary is out of control!

[L. Marcus]

What a good Lucius! Question application in triplicate!

[Christopher R Taylor]

Uncontrolled essentially means you don't have to act to make a power take effect; no attack roll, etc.  So that would suggest the usual requirements to activate a power  are waived, such as 1/2 DCV and taking a full phase, but that would be up to the GM.

[Steve]

At the GM's option, there is another possible way to do this per APG 1.

 

1) Regeneration can be bought up to once per Phase (18 points) or once per Segment (20 points).

2) Instead of having it work versus BODY, have it work versus STUN. You would then recover 1 point of STUN every Segment for every 20 points spent.

3) You can add the advantage "Multiple Regeneration" for +1/2 and do two characteristics at once (like STUN and END).

 

So for 30 points, you could Regenerate 1 point of END and STUN each Segment.

 

I think that would mean 1 character point's worth of END and STUN, which would mean 5 END and 2 STUN per Segment, which would be pretty good.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Instead of having it work versus BODY, have it work versus STUN. You would then recover 1 point of STUN every Segment for every 20 points spent.

I would argue that you're recovering character points with regeneration, so 1 body = 2 stun in character points.  This also allows you to regenerate other drained abilities faster (1d6 blast would take 5 times as long, for instance).

[Steve]

I would argue that you're recovering character points with regeneration, so 1 body = 2 stun in character points. This also allows you to regenerate other drained abilities faster (1d6 blast would take 5 times as long, for instance).

Yes, I think so. I made that point at the end of my post.