"Side Kick" as a PC

[Christopher]

First of all: Teamwork.

It is incredible what this single skill can do with the Coordinated Attack Maneuver or the Optional Fastball special.

 

I had some weird concepts over the years that might help.

1. Three bodies, one Character:

In this setup I would have one sheet with Persistent Duplication (minor difference Advantage) on it. So I would effectively have three accordingly weaker (but mostly similar) character to control. 3x 8-10 DC attacks combined in a single Teamwork attack might be able to stun even tough foes and get's considerable OCV bonuses (multiple attacker bonus). "Multiple Users" limitation can also be applied to this context.

The original idea was born of the 4-Clone Squad of Star Wars Republic Comando, naturally adapted to the multipliers of Duplication.
Another variant of this would have been to have a squad of Androids that worked and looked similar to the Matrix "Agents".

Prefering ranged combat allows them to boost DCV with cover and allow some avoiding of AoE, but in melee they might dominate simply by having that much more actions to use (2 force an abort to Dodge/block, the third uses a AoE trip or the like).

 

2. Fusion-Ha!

A dragonball inspired concept. Character sheet with Multiform and Duplication in a Multipower. They are still using one sheet with slight differences.
They consider themself to be two seperate characters that just "happen" to have that fusion ability.

I can either run them as two or one that is better.

 

3. Complimentary Sidekick
A weaker Matrial Artist Sidekick to a good martial Artist PC will just appear weak. It's the uncanny valley, aplied to superhero powers.

A weak Mental Sidekick will be exceptional against the same martial Artist (asuming there is no mental char inside and you can get some nice power under the limits).

Think of what makes Robin and Batgirl unique compared to batman, rather then how they are similar.

One concept I had for D&D was a unusual Follower/PC setup. It was a normal species mage following a Liazardfolk, one of the bigger ones in particular.

The PC was brawn. The follower was translator and brains/buffing.

 

4. Complimentary Persistent Duplication:

The 3 man squads from above might also have mindlinks, so if the party had to split up they could guarantee communication between all parts.

I also had written them to either be considered one Character (the Android) or to be a team "together rated as strong as one superheroic character" (the squad variant). In fact there was this whole organisations of those Squad chars, with everyone ranging from "8 make a Superhero aquivalent" to "one honor guard member is more powerfull then most normal supers).

 

5. A man and his god:

Equal part inspired by powergaming and having only one player, my borther once came up the with the Idea of a D&d Rogue/Ranger with a Dog living in the wilderness.

The dog helped with flanking (and thus sneak attack bonus), while also making a lot of sense.

 

 

Playing two character combo of any kind is a lot about "gaming" the system to get proper effects. As such ideas from other media or rulesystems might not translate so well.

You have to see how Multiple Characters in hero can shine using existing rules (that cost you nothing or very little to use) like Combined Attack, helping with skills, the works.

[BoloOfEarth]

So +2 OCV, Melee and Ranged, only to offset Multiple Attack penalty.  What would that run?

 

 

1.  The OCV or CSL's have to be applicable to the actual attack being used. "Only for Multiple Attack" is not a valid Limitation*.

 

Wouldn't this more appropriately be 2x 3-point Offensive Penalty Skill Levels?

[Hyper-Man]

Wouldn't this more appropriately be 2x 3-point Offensive Penalty Skill Levels?

 

No.  Penalty Skill Levels are just codified Limited CSL's and are not applicable to Multiple Attack for the reasons already cited.

[phydaux]

Here's Warbird II:

 

 

WARBIRD II

 

 

10 STR 20

16 DEX 18

10 CON 20

5  INT 15

5  EGO 15

5  PRE 15

25 OCV 8

25 DCV 8

-  MOCV 3

9  MDCV 6

30 SPD 5

6  PD 8/20*

6  ED 8/20*

4  REC 8

4  END 40

10 BOD 20

10 STUN 40

 

SUB TOTAL 180

 

 

Powers

 

5 STR ½ END (1)

17 +2d6 HA 0 END OIF Sap Gloves (0)

 

30 45 pip Multipower, OIHID, Range based on SRT (16m Standing)

3 6d6 APEB 16 Charges

3 4d6 Entangle 16 Charges

3 9d6 Flash

3 4d6 NND (Tazer) 16 Charges

3 7d6 AOE EB 4m Radius 16 Charges

3 3d6 AOE Entangle 4m Radius 16 Charges

3 7d6 AOE Flash 4m Radius 16 Charges

3 2d6 AOE NND 4m Radius (Gas) 16 Charges

3 Darkness Sight Group 4m Radius, Cont.

Charge 1 Turn, 16 Charges

 

10 Rapid Attack

 

24 12rPD/12rED OIF Costume

 

11 +6m Running, (18m total), ½ END (1)

4 +8m Leaping (12m total) (1)

4 +8m Swimming (12m total) (1)

8 24m Swinging, OIF Grapnel (1)

 

3 Night Vision, OIF Visor

3 5 pip Flash Defense OIF Visor

 

7 Radio Hearing & Transmit OIF Ear Bud

 

1 Extended Breathing, 1 END/Minute OAF Rebreather

 

 

 

SUB TOTAL 154

 

 

 

 

Skills

 

3 Acrobatics

3 Acting

3 Breakfall

3 Charm

3 Climbing

3 Concealment

3 Contortionist

3 Conversation

3 Deduction

3 Demolitions

3 Lockpicking

3 Paramedics

3 Persuasion

3 Security Systems

3 Shadowing

3 Stealth

3 Streetwise

3 Teamwork

 

2 AK: Home City

2 KS: Superheroes

2 KS: Supervillians

- LS: Native

2 PS: Superhero

- TF: Automobile

 

SUB TOTAL 62

 

 

Perks

 

3 Striking Appearance

 

SUB TOTAL 3

 

 

Disadds

 

20 Secret ID

20 Code Against Killing

5 DNPC Mother (Warbird I)

5 Reputation (“Original Warbird was a Whore”)

10 Hunted by Dr. Impossible

5 Hunter of Viper

5 Hunter of Argent

5 Harmful Secret – Father might be a supervillian

 

SUB TOTAL 75

 

 

STATS 180

POWERS 154

SKILLS 62

PERKS 3

UNSPENT 1

 

TOTAL 400

 

DISADDS 75

[Hyper-Man]

First Impressions....

 

Consider Lowering STR to 15 and getting rid of Reduced END on STR (not needed as rounding works in PC's favor with a 15 STR)

Add Only for Ranged (-1) to Rapid Attack (since the character seems most effective at Range).

 

The Flash attack in the Multipower could take Charges.  Change all the charges to the next step down the chart (12 or 8 I think) and the Limitation becomes valid for the Multipower Reserve.  However, I'm not sure why the Multipower has Charges (which severely impacts the character's staying power if in more than one combat).  I would consider dropping them.

 

Here's some modifications to consider (not sure what the SFX is but Restrainable seems to go hand in hand with Range Based on STR).

 

28    Warbird II Powers: Multipower, 45-point reserve, all slots Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (56 Active Points); all slots Restrainable (-1/2), OIAID (-1/4), Range Based On STR (-1/4)

[Notes: Final END Cost = 3 per attack with 15 STR to 'Throw' them.]
2f    1)  Blast 7d6, Armor Piercing (+1/4) (44 Active Points) - END=2
2f    2)  Blast 6d6, Penetrating (+1/2) (45 Active Points) - END=2

 

That gives you 15+ points to put towards some sort of Martial Arts package (I would go with a Ranged one to begin with) and maybe one CSL with the Multipower.

 

I would strongly recommend getting yourself a copy of Hero Designer.  It is by far the best $25 you'll ever spend on a HERO product and makes this process so much easier.

 

HM

[phydaux]

The Flash attack is SUPPOSE to have the 16 Charges limitation.

 

I think that, even if she IS throwing them 2 at a time, having 144 charges of things to throw is enough.  If she runs low in a long fight, well, that's the concept.

 

I'm TOTALLY adding Restrainable to the pool cost of the multipower.  Good call.

 

Depending on how many points that leaves me with, I may drop the Sap Gloves and pick up a MA package.

 

On reflection the character isn't about combat effectiveness.  That's what the 12DC Bricks & Power Projectors are for.  This character is about stealth, and skills, and capturing mission objectives, and occupying the big nasties, keeping them tied up & out of the fight, until the 12DC characters can take them out.   

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[Hyper-Man]

Hunted by Dr. Impossible?

 

That's incredible!

 

 

HM

[phydaux]

Hunted by Dr. Impossible?

 

That's incredible!

 

 

HM

 

I just finished Soon I Will BE Invincible.  Check it out, it's worth your time.

 

Another good one is Confessions of a D List Supervillian.  But avoid the two sequels.  

[phydaux]

Actually Confessions of a D List Supervillian was WAY BETTER than Soon I Will BE Invincible.  

[bigdamnhero]

No.  Penalty Skill Levels are just codified Limited CSL's and are not applicable to Multiple Attack for the reasons already cited.

In fact 6e1 p84 specifically says PSLs can't be used to offset "the standard OCV penalty imposed by a Combat Maneuver." So You're clearly right under RAW. But I've honestly never understood the rationale behind that. If a character's shtick is making multiple attacks, why shouldn't they be able to buy off that OCV penalty in some way? I've allowed PSLs for that exact purpose, and it's never felt unbalanced.

 

Edit: and yes, I've read the Word Of Steve answers linked to above. I just don't understand the rationale.

[bigdamnhero]

My first thought is to use Acrobatics every Phase and get the +1 OCV from Surprise Move.

Depending on how liberal your GM is with allowing the Surprise Move bonus repeatedly, one possibility is to buy CSLs/OCV with Requires An Acrobatics Roll.

 

The side kick can also do Stun/End Aid on the heroes or other similar boosts. And if the fight isn't going well he can dragged KOed heroes to safety or grab the Macguffin while the more powerful heroes take on the villain. If there are civilians around he can help shoo them away so they don't get hurt.

Yeah, if she was an actual sidekick, I was going to suggest variations on Aid Others: Only When I'm Getting My Ass Kicked. But it doesn't sound like that fits the character.

 

This character is about stealth, and skills, and capturing mission objectives...

Then I would say consider buying up your Skill Rolls; 13- isn't much for someone who's supposed to be a skill monkey. Honestly, leaving out Martial Arts seems like an odd choice for this character if versatility is the goal. Consider a Penetrating attack, so you can be assured of always getting at least a couple of points through? And I'm not sure Rapid Attack is the best choice at this point; as you alluded to above, 2 x 0 = 0.

 

Eventually converting the MP into a Gadget VPP seems like it might be the way to go, but you probably don't have the points to make that work yet.

 

You could also play up the Legacy aspects of the character more: drop the Slut Shaming, and instead give her a few Perks to reflect all the people she knows through her mom, or can call on because they knew her mom. Nothing makes you the belle of the ball like "So I called Dr. Evil - yeah I know he's a bad guy, but he owed my mom a favor - anyway he said this guy has a hideout over on 3rd St, and his weakness is sonic powers. Who's got something for that?"

[bigdamnhero]

I just finished Soon I Will BE Invincible.  Check it out, it's worth your time.

 

Another good one is Confessions of a D List Supervillian.  But avoid the two sequels.  

I just saw "D List" had a couple sequels, and was considering picking them up - thanks for saving me the time & money!

 

"Soon I Will Be Invincible" was okay - decent concept, but clunky execution IMO.

[Amorkca]

5 Harmful Secret – Father might be a supervillian

 

What type of Complication is a Harmful Secret?  I've never heard of it but like the concept!

[Hugh Neilson]

A couple of comments:

 

First, when I see a limitation as a GM, I read "please make sure this comes up in the game on occasion"

 

OIAID means you will be caught outside that ID on occasion. If being without the MP and the OIF for a combat will mean you are useless, you may not enjoy these limitations cropping up. Martial Arts might be a good choice, especially with maneuvers like Trips which will allow you to have an impact if you are not in the right ID and have no focus.

 

16 charges (for 144 individual uses) means "I expect, at some point, to be in a situation where I cannot recover these, long term, and I start running out of charges for various slots, requiring judicious choices of when to use those last few charges".

 

Second, you are expecting to toss two charges at once. Note that, since your MP has only enough reserve for one slot at a time, you cannot use two different slots in a single phase, so you could not toss, say, a Flash and an Entangle as a Rapid Attack.

[Hugh Neilson]

For the concept, I'd probably focus on unusual attacks that some opponents, at least, will lack defenses against. Flash is good, as is Entangle. Normal damage? Meh...

 

Now Drains from a Gas Bomb which reduce the opponent's ability to attack my teammates - that has some promise. CON drain makes you easier to stun. STR drain means my teammates take less damage. END drain means you may not have a lot of staying power. STUN drain is STUN that does not come back with your big REC, and REC drain is just mean in a long combat.

[steriaca]

What type of Complication is a Harmful Secret? I've never heard of it but like the concept!

In 6ed, the complication is called Social Complication.

[Hyper-Man]

In fact 6e1 p84 specifically says PSLs can't be used to offset "the standard OCV penalty imposed by a Combat Maneuver." So You're clearly right under RAW. But I've honestly never understood the rationale behind that. If a character's shtick is making multiple attacks, why shouldn't they be able to buy off that OCV penalty in some way? I've allowed PSLs for that exact purpose, and it's never felt unbalanced.

 

Edit: and yes, I've read the Word Of Steve answers linked to above. I just don't understand the rationale.

 

The best rational I can give is how it would fundamentally change some character concepts.

 

Take my version of John Wick (from the Keanu Reeves movie).

 

Here are his current list of combat related Skill Levels:

 

6    +2 with Handguns

10    +2 with Small Arms

20    +2 with All Attacks

24    +2 Overall Skill Levels

12    +4 to offset Hit Location modifiers with all attacks 

[Notes: This could be replaced with the Deadly Blow or Weapon Master Talents if Hit Locations are not being used.]

10    +4 to offset Hit Location modifiers with all attacks  (12 Active Points); Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4)

[Notes: From 6e2 p200 - Characters normally use One-And-A-Half-Handed Weapons (“1½H”) with two hands; their listed STR Minima assumes two-handed use. However, if necessary characters can use them one-handed without too much difficulty. If a character uses the weapon with only one hand, increase its STR Minimum by +2 (or impose a -1 OCV penalty for weapons for which the STR Minimum Cannot Add Damage). 1 Handed use with guns means only +3 vs. Hit Locations. 1 Handed use with Martial Arts means 15 base STR or +3 vs. Hit Locations.]

4    +2 to offset Recoil modifiers vs. a single target when using autofire or multiple attacks with a gun

[Notes: HSEG6e p103 & DC5e p194 - The Recoils Rules impose an additional cumulative -1 OCV penalty for each shot after the first fired with Autofire or a Multiple Attack when made against a single target.]

6    +3 to offset the DCV penalty for being prone

[Notes: Defensive Penalty Skill Levels.  6e1 page 85.]

 

 

As is, he is much better with Handguns than he is Judo (by 4 CSL's).  The high total CSL numbers are primarily there to offset the Multiple Attack and Autofire penalties.  If PSL's were usable vs. Multiple Attack Penalties it would potentially save him 4+ Points and/or make his Judo more effective than it already is. 

 

Fundamentally It is a change that would remove granularity from the game and as such is an unneeded IMO.

 

HM

 

[Hyper-Man]

In 6ed, the complication is called Social Complication.

 

From:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090619173015/http://www.cellularsmoke.net/rpgs/ml_social.php

 

Under Social Limitations

 

Harmful Secret

Occasionally, Minor 5pts. / Occasionally Major 10pts. / Occasionally, Severe 15pts. / Frequently, Minor 10pts. / Frequently, Major 15pts. / Frequently, Severe 20pts.

A character with this Disadvantage has a secret that would harm the character and/or those close to him (friends, family, etc.) if revealed to society. The frequency of this Disadvantage is defined by the probability that someone discovers the secret. At Occasionally, the secret can only be discovered by someone who has access to a special media that reveals the secret (a file, a tape). At Frequently, the secret can be discovered by someone who does a serious research into the character's past (or the one near him). At the Minor level, the secret is something that would ruin the character's life, job, and/or reputation. At Major, the secret affects not only the character but also those around him (family, friends, teammates). And at Severe, the secret affects the character's entire society. Characters should only take the Severe level in case the secret involves someone or something related to a government.

 

[Amorkca]

From:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090619173015/http://www.cellularsmoke.net/rpgs/ml_social.php

 

Under Social Limitations

 

This is an amazing web site!!!  Thanks

 

I've bookmarked it!!

[Hyper-Man]

This is an amazing web site!!!  Thanks

 

I've bookmarked it!!

 

Yep.  The live version is not working but the WaybackMachine saved it.  It's what I used for John Wick's Complications as well.

 

HM

[bigdamnhero]

The high total CSL numbers are primarily there to offset the Multiple Attack and Autofire penalties.  If PSL's were usable vs. Multiple Attack Penalties it would potentially save him 4+ Points and/or make his Judo more effective than it already is.

Couldn't you say the same thing about the +4 to offset Hit Location Penalties? Not trying to be argumentative (and conceding that RAW says you're right); I just don't see this as any different and I'm trying to understand.

[Hyper-Man]

Just speculating...

 

PSL's can never increase a character's OCV.

CSL's with Multiple Attack could theoretically give a character a higher OCV when performing that maneuver than when not.

 

Multiple Attack is in some ways MORE effective than having a higher SPD.  It doesn't need any discounts.

 

I might think of more later...

 

HM

[phydaux]

OK, so I'll be dropping the Sap Gloves and adding Restrainable to the multipower.  I'll use the points to pick up a martial arts package.  I've decided that I'll also drop Rapid Attack and up my OCV & DCV by 1 each.

 

I've decided to drop the name Warbird and use a different name for the original character - Nightwalker.  

 

Part of this is because Nightwalker sounds like a cool name for a street-level superhero who uses stealth.  I also like the name because nightwalker is an old-style euphemism for a prostitute, and that fits my vision for the character's mother.  By adopting the name the PC is both taking on to herself the role of superhero and the taint of her mother's reputation.  I eventually see the character outgrowing both, reinventing and renaming herself Shadowhunter, that being the name of my recurring street-level vigilante PC, 

[Amorkca]

Yep.  The live version is not working but the WaybackMachine saved it.  It's what I used for John Wick's Complications as well.

 

HM

 

Is this why I can't get it to open on my iPad?  Mac works fine but not the iPad...

[steriaca]

Is this why I can't get it to open on my iPad? Mac works fine but not the iPad...

Do not work on my cellphone web browser also.