Attacking with a Blast, with Range Self (or No Range), and AoE

[MuensterCheese]

In my group, I have a member who wants a pretty simple Power.  He wants the ability to emanate a sonic blast from himself in all directions.  Clearly it's Blast, Perceivability is Obvious, and Duration is Instant (which are default attributes of Blast).  But I also see how Area of Effect--Radius applies.  The Range is questionable.  I can see a Limitation for No Range, but not a Limitation for Self.  I guess I could make one up.  And it also stands to reason that Cannot Use Targeting applies, because we've decided to use Hit Locations.

 

All this is fine, until I imagined this in combat.  The rules state that the character needs to attack.  But why, in this case?  The power emanates from him, so he has no need to Target an opponent, the ground, or anything.  The effect would affect everyone around him in the radius that he purchased, wouldn't it?  Why should he roll attack dice?  Just because the rules say so?  Or should I add an Advantage?

[Durzan Malakim]

Combat almost always requires attack rolls, but there are some options to either make the roll easier, change the combat value used, or make it conditional:

• You could make the Area of Effect Accurate to target the hex DCV 3.
• You could make a Damage Shield to apply damage anytime someone makes contact
• You could make the attack No Normal Defense (Hearing Flash Protection).

[Netzilla]

Area effect attacks must roll to hit the target point (DCV 3 normally but 0 in this case because it's within 2 meters). If you miss, the attack scatters. The most it can scatter by is 1/2 the distance to the target. Half of 0 is 0, therefore, in this instance, the attack roll is a formality.

[BoloOfEarth]

According to 6E1-320:

 

 

If a character has a No Range Area Of Effect attack, he still must make an Attack Roll (against DCV 0, since the target point’s either himself or a point adjacent to himself) to hit the target point unless the GM rules otherwise. If he misses, the attack has no effect on anyone whatsoever — since the power has No Range, the normal rules for determining the “location” of a missed Area affecting attack don’t apply. The GM can interpret this in whatever way he sees fit. For example, it could be that the power failed to work somehow, that something protected the potential targets, or the like.

 

Personally, I ignore this rule and don't have the attacker make a roll.

 

Note that the character is going to need to add Personal Immunity (or Hole in the Middle) to this power to avoid taking damage himself.

[MuensterCheese]

6E1 is the one book I'm missing that I really think I should get.  But I just bought 6E2 so I'm going to have to wait.  That rule from the book really helps.  And I like the Personal Immunity/Hole in the Middle modifiers.  Maybe, if I don't want the player to make an attack roll, I could add the inverse of the Requires a Roll limitation (make it a + instead of a -).

[steriaca]

You don't actually need a Personal Immunity or Hole In The Middle for a No Range attack. But be aware that the opponent could deflect or reflect the attack.

 

If you add Area Of Effect on it, well that depends on the area (a dragon needs no Personal Immunity for his breath weapon, but that is a cone).

[Lucius]

 

Given that he has to roll to hit a DCV of Zero, I wouldn't worry about it. Even if you DID require the roll, it won't miss often.

 

I wouldn't think it needs an Advantage to always hit.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I need an advantage to avoid being hit by this palindromedary...

[BoloOfEarth]

You don't actually need a Personal Immunity or Hole In The Middle for a No Range attack. But be aware that the opponent could deflect or reflect the attack.

 

If you add Area Of Effect on it, well that depends on the area (a dragon needs no Personal Immunity for his breath weapon, but that is a cone).

 

As to your first sentence, if it's a single-target attack, you're right.  However, since the OP stated it was a Blast radiating in all directions, AoE Radius is a given, as is No Range.  So PI or HIM would definitely be needed to avoid taking damage yourself.

 

I agree that a No Range AoE Cone would not require PI either. Which is another, perfectly valid sonic power for that character.

 

6E1 is the one book I'm missing that I really think I should get.  But I just bought 6E2 so I'm going to have to wait.  That rule from the book really helps.  And I like the Personal Immunity/Hole in the Middle modifiers.  Maybe, if I don't want the player to make an attack roll, I could add the inverse of the Requires a Roll limitation (make it a + instead of a -).

 

As Lucius says, I don't think you need to require another Advantage.  Note that my above quote of the rule states, "unless the GM rules otherwise."  So you hand-wave it and say a no-range AoE Radius always hits. 

 

(Also note that I'd make a no-range AoE Cone still require a to-hit roll, mainly to make sure it's pointed in the right direction.)

[Ninja-Bear]

According to 6E1-320:

 

Personally, I ignore this rule and don't have the attacker make a roll.

 

Note that the character is going to need to add Personal Immunity (or Hole in the Middle) to this power to avoid taking damage himself.

I agree with Bolo especially about Hole in Middle.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Note that the character is going to need to add Personal Immunity (or Hole in the Middle) to this power to avoid taking damage himself.

 

 

I ignore that particular rule for powers that are always 0 range and using the character as a point blank center of an AE.  Yes, if you buy an AE and use it on top of yourself, you need hole in the middle to protect yourself from its effects.  But if the power always works that way, and is designed to, you don't blow yourself up any more than an energy blast from your eyes melts them when you use it.

[JmOz]

I would consider AVAD hear as well (Flash Defense Hearing)

[Tom]

I may be misremembering from an earlier version, but I thought hitting an adjacent hex (or your own hex) was considered automatic.

 

Given the attack the SFX of the attack I'd rule the character didn't need to make an attack roll.

 

Since the attack is AOE, he will be affected by his own attack unless he buys PI or HiM (though if it is an NND, I'd probably just buy the defense if it met concept).

 

Side note on the AOE-Cone example for breath weapon, I normally just assumed the attack started in the adjacent hex which wouldn't put the the attacker in the AoE.