Mental Power Defense

[g3taso]

It seems to me that Mind Link, Telepathy and so forth rely on making mental contact. Is a defense like this viable? Away from my books and don't remember how mental combat works. I was recently using something similar as a cell phone jammer and it occurred to me as a mental discipline it might have merit. 

 

Mental Jamming:  Mental Group Images 1" radius, +/-8 to PER Rolls, Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4) (36 Active Points); Set Effect Prevent Mental Targeting (-1), No Range (-1/2), Physical Manifestation (-1/4)

 

If this isn't viable, how to I make it harder to find a character's mind to "lock on"? How can I make breakout rolls easier?

[Grailknight]

Go with Darkness vs Mental group instead, then you just have to avoid direct LOS. 

[indy523]

What you seem to be doimg is to create fake minds to fool a mentalist..  The 1m radius would mean you are creating one mind that a mentalist mind scanning would pick up.  If the mentslist is fooled by the image then they could waste time mindreading (telepathy), Mind controlling or mental illusioning the fake mind which if it reacts appropriately could fool them more.

 

To appear to be a copy of a specific mind the character who creates the image would have to nave mental awareness to know what minds look like in the mindscape and would have to have seen that mind or somehow know it.  Some kind of mental disguise roll might be needed, etc. to strengthen the image.

 

Not a bad idea however you might need to hide or alter the mind being copied or two versions of the target would be In place.

 

Mental Defense essentially reduces the total points of the dice roll for creating an effect,  This would be misdirection.

 

A neat trick with this is a trigger advantage.  Each time a mentalist looks for or uses a mind power on a character with lots of mental defense and fails then the power activates and the enemy mentalist sees his power affecting the targets mind but it is an illusion.  The mind he sees is a fake.  Perfect for telepathy, Is this guy an assassin trying to murder the king, no just a baker going to market.

 

Another option is to megascale the area and make it appear there thousands of minds in the area to make searching by mind scan harder,

[Cantriped]

Mental Group Images won't prevent the enemy from targeting you. It might reduce the odds by giving them fake minds to target instead, and if they are targeting via Sight than it would be easy to ascertain that the extra minds don't have bodies associated with them (although a player might think he's detected a bunch of invisible ninjas or something... Mental Group Images might be usable to feed the target false data in addition to the accurate data, leaving them to guess which tid-bit is true. Is that really Captain Power, or is it just a deluded Captain Power Fanboy.

 

You can buy Invisibility to Mental Group (or stand in a Mental Darkness Field) to make yourself impossible to find via Mind Scan. However this doesn't prevent them from establishing Telepathy (or using other Mental Attacks) through Sight.

 

Your best bet for reliably not being targeted by mental powers is to have an above average DMCV (and pray nobody has the rare Area of Effect Mental Power)

[g3taso]

I hear ya. You are talking about something like

Darkness to Mental Group 1" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4) (6 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

 

I was also thinking about this

Shrouded Mind:  Invisibility to Sight Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Only To Protect Against Mental Attacks (-1)

 

So far I think Darkness seems to do it best. any comments? suggestions? I'm looking for ways to make it harder for someone to make the ECV roll to target me with mental powers, or mebbe help with breakouts.

[indy523]

Mental Group Images won't prevent the enemy from targeting you. It might reduce the odds by giving them fake minds to target instead, and if they are targeting via Sight than it would be easy to ascertain that the extra minds don't have bodies associated with them (although a player might think he's detected a bunch of invisible ninjas or something... Mental Group Images might be usable to feed the target false data in addition to the accurate data, leaving them to guess which tid-bit is true. Is that really Captain Power, or is it just a deluded Captain Power Fanboy.

 

You can buy Invisibility to Mental Group (or stand in a Mental Darkness Field) to make yourself impossible to find via Mind Scan. However this doesn't prevent them from establishing Telepathy (or using other Mental Attacks) through Sight.

 

Your best bet for reliably not being targeted by mental powers is to have an above average DMCV (and pray nobody has the rare Area of Effect Mental Power)

 

This is true but if we are only talking about mind scan then if the subject in question has mental defense high enough to beat the mind scan roll is that not the same thing as invisible because the power failed?  Just asking not sure how the rules work on that.

[Cantriped]

A successful Attack Roll with Mind Scan confirms the existence of the target mind in the scanned area and makes "contact" with it, so you'll know they were there even if the Effect Roll fails. A failed Effect Roll indicates that you were unable to Lock-On to the target, and thus you are unable attack the target mentally through said Mind Scan Lock.

However, being a Sensory Power which functions in many respects as a Targeting Sense; Mind Scan cannot make contact with, or establish a Lock-On, to a target who is Invisible to Mental Group senses (of which Mind Scan is a member).  

[bigdamnhero]

Remember tho that while Darkness vs Mental will block Mind Scan, it does zilch against a character who has LOS on you.

 

The easiest way to make ECV Attack rolls harder is to buy up your DMCV and/or Mental Skill Levels. The easiest way to boost Breakout Rolls is to buy additional EGO, only to add to Breakout Rolls. (Hmm...seems like you could also use Mental Skill Levels for that? And/or PSLs?)

[Lucius]

Breaking Free: (Total: 14 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) +7 with single Characteristic Roll: EGO (14 Active Points); Limited Power Only for Breakout Rolls (-1/2) (Real Cost: 9)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Break out the palindromedaries

[g3taso]

A successful Attack Roll with Mind Scan confirms the existence of the target mind in the scanned area and makes "contact" with it, so you'll know they were there even if the Effect Roll fails. A failed Effect Roll indicates that you were unable to Lock-On to the target, and thus you are unable attack the target mentally through said Mind Scan Lock.

However, being a Sensory Power which functions in many respects as a Targeting Sense; Mind Scan cannot make contact with, or establish a Lock-On, to a target who is Invisible to Mental Group senses (of which Mind Scan is a member).  

So you are saying that for maximum protection I should have both for maximum protection?

Darkness to Mental Group 1" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4) (6 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

Shrouded Mind:  Invisibility to Sight Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Only To Protect Against Mental Attacks (-1)

[Grailknight]

So you are saying that for maximum protection I should have both for maximum protection?

Darkness to Mental Group 1" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4) (6 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

Shrouded Mind:  Invisibility to Sight Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Only To Protect Against Mental Attacks (-1)

 

Yeah that combo will do it.

[Cantriped]

So you are saying that for maximum protection I should have both for maximum protection?

Darkness to Mental Group 1" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4) (6 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

Shrouded Mind:  Invisibility to Sight Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Only To Protect Against Mental Attacks (-1)

You don't need both Darkness and Invisibility, you can buy just Invisibility to both Sight and Mental (and partially limit the appropriate part to Only Protect Against Mental Attacks). Of course, that isn't really absolute protection either. Someone could still establish LoS through Targeting Smell or Hearing, and even if you bought it to cover every sense group, some oddball might still have Spatial Awareness or Detect Minds as a unique sense not tied to any sense group. 

 

For most purposes, just straight DMCV is going to be the cheapest and simplest, while still remaining reasonably effective. It is also worth noting that none of these methods will protect the character from a Area of Effect Mental Attack that happens to hit where you are standing.

[Steve]

I'm not sure if it's legal, but perhaps you could buy an Explosion advantage on DMCV that would make it hardest for AoE mental attacks to hit your hex and then make it progressively easier to target hexes further away. I could see that explained as some kind of mental scrambler field.

[DasBroot]

Watch out with Darkness. Lot of grumbling in my group when the big bad built Darkness to Mental Group into his secret base to prevent someone from going 'He's over there' at the start of the game.

 

Mind Scan at a useful level isn't cheap.  Darkness to a single sense group IS.  While there are other examples of that in the game (a 50,000 point blast will be thwarted by a 40 point desolidify without the right advantages or special effects) this one 'feels' more like the GM is targeting you.  (Hence while it would benefit *everyone* in the game to have this power it really was limited to the campaign enemies main base). 

[g3taso]

It seems that Darkness isn't the way to go, and that a construct like this is the preferred method

Shrouded Mind:  Invisibility to Sight and Mental Groups , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (37 Active Points); Only To Protect Against Mental Attacks (-1)

 

I appreciate the feedback, and thanks for making sure I didn't go off half cocked. Cantriped makes an excellent implicit point. Being invisible makes it harder to locate or attack you, but it can be done. Mental DCV makes sure they don't get through. I am assuming that Mental attacks (being at range) are treated as Ranged Attacks in normal combat when dealing with invisible (1/2DCV  1/2OCV)?

[IndianaJoe3]

It seems that Darkness isn't the way to go, and that a construct like this is the preferred method

Shrouded Mind:  Invisibility to Sight and Mental Groups , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (37 Active Points); Only To Protect Against Mental Attacks (-1)

 

You probably should tweak it a bit so that the, "Only vs Mental Attacks" Limitation doesn't apply to the Mental Group Invisibility.

[steriaca]

Let me think...have you looked into "Mental" Desolification? Or Mental Damage Reduction?

[Christopher R Taylor]

Telepathy takes an OMCV roll to hit with normally so just having a higher DMCV would help avoid that. Mind Scan requires a hit roll on an area, so you're not involved and that is tricker.  Darkness works fine, even if it makes people grumble.  After all, mind scan doesn't really have a defense to help you avoid being found by it, so that helps you escape discovery.  

 

However, this is something significant to consider: darkness is perceivable.  Darkness doesn't make you impossible to see, it makes you impossible to find.  What I mean is this; if someone tosses a smoke grenade down, you can't see them in that area, but you know where they are in a general sense: somewhere in that smoke.  Darkness is a very easy to spot thing, so while the Mind Scan won't find you in the darkness, they'll definitely find the darkness.  Basically, its a mental smoke grenade.

 

Invisibility is more subtle and more effective, instead of concealment in an area, its making you imperceptible.

[Cantriped]

Mind Scan requires a hit roll on an area, so you're not involved and that is tricker.  Darkness works fine, even if it makes people grumble.  After all, mind scan doesn't really have a defense to help you avoid being found by it, so that helps you escape discovery.  

Mind Scan attacks against individual DMCVs when you are attempting to Lock-On to a single target (modified by the number of minds in the scanned area), it only attacks against the area's DMCV when you are using Mind Scan to take a census (and it is true that having a high DMCV won't protect you from being included in that census). However, given that it functions as a mental targeting sense either Invisibility or Darkness to Mental Group senses will prevent you from popping up on a Mind Scan Census regardless of how well the Character rolls (not that popping up on such a census actually tells the character that you in particular were one of the minds they detected).

[Christopher R Taylor]

However, given that it functions as a mental targeting sense either Invisibility or Darkness to Mental Group senses will prevent you from popping up on a Mind Scan Census regardless of how well the Character rolls

 

 

Correct, but it will show up in their mental sense as a darkness area.  They can't find you, but they know something is there.

[Cantriped]

Correct, but it will show up in their mental sense as a darkness area.  They can't find you, but they know something is there.

Would it? Mind Scan doesn't say it functions as "Detect Darkness To Mental Group". If the character is taking a Census using Mind Scan and some of the area is in a Darkness To Mental Group field, their result should simply omit any minds within the field from the Mind Scan's results. Unless the character can confirm the existence of bodies that should have minds in the scanned area using a different sense, there is no reason for them to assume that the area isn't just empty (as opposed to being subject to Darkness to Mental Group).

[g3taso]

Telepathy takes an OMCV roll to hit with normally so just having a higher DMCV would help avoid that. Mind Scan requires a hit roll on an area, so you're not involved and that is tricker.  Darkness works fine, even if it makes people grumble.  After all, mind scan doesn't really have a defense to help you avoid being found by it, so that helps you escape discovery.  

 

However, this is something significant to consider: darkness is perceivable.  Darkness doesn't make you impossible to see, it makes you impossible to find.  What I mean is this; if someone tosses a smoke grenade down, you can't see them in that area, but you know where they are in a general sense: somewhere in that smoke.  Darkness is a very easy to spot thing, so while the Mind Scan won't find you in the darkness, they'll definitely find the darkness.  Basically, its a mental smoke grenade.

 

Invisibility is more subtle and more effective, instead of concealment in an area, its making you imperceptible.

That goes back to Darkness as essentially anti Mind Scan, and Invisibility for other attacks (based on Sight Group). And of course 5pt Mental Combat levels. Your explanation is wonderful, really on the spot. Perhaps they could be combined together.  

 

Darkness to Mental Group 1" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) 

 

or 

 

Darkness to Sight and Mental Groups 1" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (41 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Power Sight Group Only For Avoiding Mental Attacks (-1/2)

[Cantriped]

Note that Darkness is Obvious to two sense groups by default (one of which must be Sight), and nothing in the rules requires actually that a Darkness Field be obvious to the sense group it blocks. That just happens to be the case for Darkness to Sight (sans Invisible Power Effects). For example, you could have a Darkness to Mental Group Field that produces an Obvious and distinctive smell (in addition to its Obvious visual manifestation); someone using a Mental Group sense won't detect that such a power is active in the area regardless of which exact mental sense is used.

[Christopher R Taylor]

True you can buy Darkness to be imperceptible if you want to.  By default its visible to the sense it blocks, at least that's how I'd rule it  Pretty sure one of those senses has to be a targeting sense as well.  You could theoretically redefine it to be something else (smell and sight??) but that's going to require a pretty good explanation if I'm the GM.

[Cantriped]

Per RAW in CC, an Obvious Power must be Obvious to the Sight Group (which also just happens to be the only inherently Targeting Sense Group) and any one other Sense Group (the suggested default is Hearing). So in that regard Darkness to Mental Group, Obvious To Sight And Hearing Groups is perfectly legal, if somewhat difficult to imagine. Likewise in a particular campaign setting, all spells could be Obvious to Sight and Mental Groups by default (with additional perceivability handled through the appropriate modifiers); Detect Magic would simply be a very common Mental Group Sense in that instance.

 

Most players forget to stipulate what sense groups their power is perceivable to, mainly because the authors themselves have always forgotten to consider or define the perceivability of powers they write*, so having Darkness default to Sight plus [The Next Most Useful Sense Group It Blocks (that isn't Sight)] makes a lot of sense as a house rule.

 

*If more authors did, and the default format for powers included space for perceivability, than I'm willing to bet that Obvious/Inobvious/Invisible to [sense] modifiers would be much more common.