Speedster Move Through Power

[NisseFrasse]

Greetings all!

Once again I come with a question of how to make a specific power for one of my friend’s superhero character, in my HERO campaign. He is currently playing a superhero Speedster, self explained as it is, he is quick, fast and can move rapidly, more or less like the Flash. Now we found out that with “Move Through” maneuver as with a Speedster you can do a lot of damage(To yourself included). Due to the velocity damage and additional strength from the character itself.

But as it stats in the book that you can not use it with FTL or Megascale and others similar versions. My player was pretty bummed to not be able to use “Move Through” with Megascale, for balance purposes i think it’s good for else it would be ridiculously OP, however, the Speedster will without question perish into the oblivion due to the amount of damage that would be done not only to the Speedsters’s target, but to the Speedster itself.

Now, I will not allow Speedsters to do such thing with the Megascale, just as it stats in the book. But I do want to help my player to find another way of doing this(Smaller scale that is), either through a power, maneuver or something that could sort of resemblance an awesome version of a “Move Through”.

So any suggestions or tips of how this could work or be done or look like? A power? A maneuver? Since I am unsure how to build it as for now and how it could supposedly look like.

Thanks on before hand!

 

[Hyper-Man]

Take a look at the speedster martial arts and infinite mass punch inside the VPP on this character for ideas.

 

From:

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?795840-HERO6E-My-rookie-JLA-builds&p=20707008#post20707008

 

0 24) Infinite Mass Punch: Hand-To-Hand Attack +12d6 (60 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/4) Real Cost: 40 
[Notes: 16d6 with STR. 20d6 combined with Sacrifice Strike. Practical* Maximum Damage = 25d6 when combined with Passing Strike or Passing Throw and 90m Maximum combat move. Move Through Maximum Damage = 31d6 that he would also take a minimum of Half Damage (or Full Damage if target takes no Knockback).] - END=6

 

[Cassandra]

I always thought an Energy Blast could simulate a move through with the advantage that the target can't strike back with a hand to hand attack.

[Christopher R Taylor]

The easiest way is to buy a Hand Attack and buy it with a limitation "only with move through maneuver" or something along those lines.

Another trick is to buy teleportation, with the added damage, and the special effect of a move through: it looks like he ran and bashed into the target and ended up where he teleported to, and he does damage.

You could even buy an area effect line attack and define it as "he ran, smashed everything in his path, then dashed back to his starting point"

Lots of ways to do this kind of thing in Hero.

[Greywind]

In Flash vol 2 #1 Wally is carrying a human heart for a transplant when he sees Vandal Savage strangling a man. He is long miles away from the site when it registers what he saw. Just an example of not being able to be effective combat-wise at megascale movement.

[Cassandra]

8 minutes ago, Greywind said:

In Flash vol 2 #1 Wally is carrying a human heart for a transplant when he sees Vandal Savage strangling a man. He is long miles away from the site when it registers what he saw. Just an example of not being able to be effective combat-wise at megascale movement.

 

For that level of speed I would use Extra-Dimensional Movement: A Dimension where Everyone Else is Frozen in Time.  Because it's a non-combat movement it takes an entire phase and can't be used in a combat situation, but allows near instantaneous movement anywhere on Earth.

[Cantriped]

41 minutes ago, NisseFrasse said:

Greetings all!

Once again I come with a question of how to make a specific power for one of my friend’s superhero character, in my HERO campaign. He is currently playing a superhero Speedster, self explained as it is, he is quick, fast and can move rapidly, more or less like the Flash.

One of the best ways to handle this is to have them by a Speedster Style Martial Art which includes Martial Strike, Passing Strike, and Martial Dodge. Passing Strike functions as a Move-By that doesn't cause reciprocal damage; No speedster should be without Passing Strike (or some equivalent to it)..  Then simply purchase extra Martial DCs* if the character's Strength + Velocity isn't producing enough damage for your campaign.

*Alternatively you can also use a basic Hand-To-Hand Attack (or an Autofire Hand-To-Hand Attack) to represent the ridiculous velocity at which he can throw punches.

 

 

[Cantriped]

Regarding the inability to use Megamovement with a Full-Move Element Maneuver (Move By, Move Through, Passing Strike, etc). That restriction doesn't apply to Noncombat Movement as a whole. So you can legally perform a Passing Strike (or Move-By/Through) with Flight 10m x1000 Noncombat Movement (55 APs) (for a total velocity of 10km/phase...), however you do so at OCV 0 (unless you've got PSLs versus Noncombat Movement Penalties)... Of course such a character would need one looooong runway to Accelerate up to or Decelerate down from that velocity, or pay much more for faster deceleration. Heaven forbid something get in the way of your ac/deceleration by the way, because that would be a Collision (which uses the rules for Move-Through... which make for a very dead speedster)

 

However in practice I simply wouldn't allow this. The amount of damage such a construct that lay out (if done properly) is beyond the scope of any campaign I've ever run. I usually encourage Speedster's use just their Combat Velocity for Combat Maneuvers (for their own safety).

[Hyper-Man]

Added details to my earlier post.  25d6-31d6 should be enough.

 

https://youtu.be/WKGoFJba1RE

 

[Tech]

For myself, anyone trying a move-through for a huge amount of damage would be limited to DEF + Body (or BODY x2 for complete obliteration). Sooo, Mr Superspeed, your 20 PD and 10 BODY allows you a maximum of 40d6, although you're probably going to need a new character.

[Hugh Neilson]

21 hours ago, Tech said:

For myself, anyone trying a move-through for a huge amount of damage would be limited to DEF + Body (or BODY x2 for complete obliteration). Sooo, Mr Superspeed, your 20 PD and 10 BODY allows you a maximum of 40d6, although you're probably going to need a new character.

 

Summon Timeshadow (duplicate of the PC, Slavishly loyal) who will then obliterate themselves doing 40d6 to an opponent.  I can probably shave off some points as my Timeshadow will not need all of my abilities, of course.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Duplication has some fun and interesting tricks you can do like that.  At least, until the GM gets sick of your crap.

[Cassandra]

19 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Duplication has some fun and interesting tricks you can do like that.  At least, until the GM gets sick of your crap.

 

So that's how to do a "Time Remnant."

[NisseFrasse]

Oh wow! Thanks alot for all the answers and suggestions! I believe I have a more clear idea now how to do this. Thank you all so much! : D

[Hyper-Man]

Another surviveable option would be to combine minimum purchase amounts of Desolidification plus a 2d6 HA with Affects Physical World (+2) and AOE Accurate (+1/2) plus 5m Flight with Only on Surface and Megascale 1m =1km (+1).

 

I'd have to play around with HD (not possible right now) but I am pretty sure that with the low AP's involved (40, 35 and 10) that all 3 slots should fit in my rookie Flash's VPP without further limitations. And if I recall correctly 1km movement combined with SPD 6 translates to ~ Mach1. So I think that's around 100d6 minimum with a 0 OCV (Megascale) vs a 0 DCV (AOE Accurate) meaning a better than 50% chance to hit. Hitting a barrier with Affects Desol is the only worry.

 

Am I wrong?

[Tech]

First, you have to try to get these ideas past the GM and I sincerely doubt you will. I can think of all sorts of powers that obliterate my enemies but they're not going to get past the GM. If they did, I would really worry about why. If somehow, someone in my campaign tried that (and they won't, fortunately: let's hear it for great players!), I would pull out my rule which all players are very well acquainted with:

 

"What's good for the players is good for the GM, and vice versa"

 

It prevents power-gaming and crazy ideas like 40d6+ attacks from occurring in the campaign. This rule also protects the players.

[dsatow]

"Just because you can create a nuclear hand grenade in the game, doesn't mean you will be allowed to."

[Hyper-Man]

Sorry, my inner munchkin escaped from his cage.

[massey]

On 3/27/2018 at 4:53 PM, Tech said:

First, you have to try to get these ideas past the GM and I sincerely doubt you will. I can think of all sorts of powers that obliterate my enemies but they're not going to get past the GM. If they did, I would really worry about why. If somehow, someone in my campaign tried that (and they won't, fortunately: let's hear it for great players!), I would pull out my rule which all players are very well acquainted with:

 

"What's good for the players is good for the GM, and vice versa"

 

It prevents power-gaming and crazy ideas like 40d6+ attacks from occurring in the campaign. This rule also protects the players.

 

40D6?  Is that all?

 

I once had a speedster who could hit 56D6 on a Passing Strike.  It wasn't long after that that character got retired.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I managed a double knockback power of like 35d6 once with a telekinetic character.  I did it on a space ship, because I couldn't miss.  Punched all the way through and knocked him out.

[Tech]

8 hours ago, massey said:

 

40D6?  Is that all?

 

I once had a speedster who could hit 56D6 on a Passing Strike.  It wasn't long after that that character got retired.

I did say 40d6+.

[dsatow]

I once saw a speedster do 50d6+ on a move through in a 30d6 game.  MAD move throughs.  Both speedsters taken out.  Was not pretty, epic, but not pretty.

[Watchman Mk. IV]

Move By is the preferred option anyway, for the better OCV modifier and reduced return damage.