PamelaIsley Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Hi, I'm back to playing Champions Online and that lead me to re-read most of my 6E and 5E Champions books (or at least skim them). In Teleios's write-up, it says that he got the inspiration for his knowledge from handwritten notes in a writing other than his own (a clear, confident hand is how it is put). Is it ever revealed who was behind this? For some reason, I thought it was in the GM section of both 5E and 6E Champions Universe, but I appear to be wrong. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Quote 4 minutes ago, PamelaIsley said: Hi, I'm back to playing Champions Online and that lead me to re-read most of my 6E and 5E Champions books (or at least skim them). In Teleios's write-up, it says that he got the inspiration for his knowledge from handwritten notes in a writing other than his own (a clear, confident hand is how it is put). Is it ever revealed who was behind this? For some reason, I thought it was in the GM section of both 5E and 6E Champions Universe, but I appear to be wrong. Thanks! perhaps HERO games wanted a player's character to be behind the notes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Nope, that detail has never been officially defined. It's one of the deliberate mysteries left in a few of the character write-ups, for individual GMs to resolve however best suits their campaigns. bubba smith notes above one of the possible rationales for doing so. Steve Long has mentioned that he considered writing a Book Of The Helix delving in depth into Teleios, before Hero Games downsized. I imagine we would have gotten his take on the Perfect Man's origin then, as he did with some other of those "mystery" origins. A few fans have proposed their own theories; the most popular seems to be that Teleios himself somehow went back in time to give his younger self those secrets. (Not my personal preference FWIW. I've never liked closed time-loops -- I'm more comfortable with causality.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Interestingly, when I saw the "clear, confident hand" writing, I sort of thought it might have been Teleios, himself, in some form. But later in his writeup, it seems to suggest otherwise, by implying it was a different person who gave him the information and Teleios has kind of repressed that memory (giving up on finding out who it was, and just assuming it was his own work after all). On an unrelated note, I'm sorry to see Hero Games has downsized (I don't really know what happened to it, just that the 6E books seemed to just stop coming out). I was hoping they would update Millennium City and Vibora Bay to the new format (in addition to maybe producing a compendium of statted heroes to mirror the villain books, which I think was talked about back in 2009 and 2010 when I was first active). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 The explanation I chose for my own game is that Teleios was secretly helped by the Empyrean geneticist Noatar (Hidden Lands). As I developed it, Noatar had become fascinated by the human propensity for developing superpowers in the modern era, and wanted to study superhumans more closely; but had no desire to expose himself to the dangers of interacting with them personally. When he read Jakob Stroessen's published theories he realized Stroessen was on the right path, but lacked the insights to make real breakthroughs. So Noatar arranged for one of his Empyrean relatives to leave those notes for him. Knowing the genetic coding behind Teleios's creations, Noatar can use Empyrean instruments to track their activities remotely. From time to time he hires his kinsman, Hunter Thav (also in HL) to "collect" one of them and bring it to Arcadia for study, afterwards wiping its memory if necessary. I plan to have Teleios learn this truth eventually, and out of wounded ego over being someone's pawn, vow to track down Noatar and prove to him who the real master of genetics is. If I ever get to run games again, that is. Dkap and wcw43921 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Very cool backstory. I've given up on running games or even playing them again. I just like to read setting and flavor books and create my own characters from to time (lately less focused on stat blocks and more on just backgrounds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 47 minutes ago, PamelaIsley said: On an unrelated note, I'm sorry to see Hero Games has downsized (I don't really know what happened to it, just that the 6E books seemed to just stop coming out). I was hoping they would update Millennium City and Vibora Bay to the new format (in addition to maybe producing a compendium of statted heroes to mirror the villain books, which I think was talked about back in 2009 and 2010 when I was first active). Put simply, the changing nature of the tabletop RPG market meant that Hero Games was no longer selling enough to pay for a full-time staff and regular publication schedule. The current publisher, Jason Walters, is the only "employee" of Hero Games at present; and even he does other work in addition. Such product as has come out for Hero System in recent years has mostly been made by third-party licensees, although there have been a few additions to the official Champions Universe. An update to the Millennium City source book, advancing the timeline as well as changing to Sixth Edition Hero, was one of several books announced on the publication schedule before Hero Games had to pull the plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: Put simply, the changing nature of the tabletop RPG market meant that Hero Games was no longer selling enough to pay for a full-time staff and regular publication schedule. The current publisher, Jason Walters, is the only "employee" of Hero Games at present; and even he does other work in addition. Such product as has come out for Hero System in recent years has mostly been made by third-party licensees, although there have been a few additions to the official Champions Universe. An update to the Millennium City source book, advancing the timeline as well as changing to Sixth Edition Hero, was one of several books announced on the publication schedule before Hero Games had to pull the plug. That makes sense. I'm glad I acquired a bunch of 5E books in 2009. They fill in a lot of gaps in the universe that were never part of 6E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 5 hours ago, PamelaIsley said: Hi, I'm back to playing Champions Online and that lead me to re-read most of my 6E and 5E Champions books (or at least skim them). In Teleios's write-up, it says that he got the inspiration for his knowledge from handwritten notes in a writing other than his own (a clear, confident hand is how it is put). Is it ever revealed who was behind this? For some reason, I thought it was in the GM section of both 5E and 6E Champions Universe, but I appear to be wrong. Thanks! [Obnoxious CU Pundit]: It certainly is a mystery who might be behind Teleios. Clearly there aren't any ancient, evil geneticists covertly pulling the strings in the Champions Universe from time out of mind. [Brash teenage super]: Oh, come on. It's Noatar. Obviously. [Obnoxious Pundit]: I have no idea who you mean. [Brash teenage super]: You know, the ancient Empyrean geneticist who has been manipulating things from behind the scenes for hundreds of thousands of years? Who else could it be? I mean, even if it were someone else, Noatar would know who, and he isn't saying! [Obnoxious Pundit]: I will grant that Noatar is the best genetic scientist on the planet, and that he has been manipulating events for hundreds of thousands of years. Yes, he has access to vast resources, has unfathomable mental powers and all-but magical technologies. However, he is an Empyrean, and Empyreans are above such things. [BTS]: Arvad? Ogurn? Khusor? [Obnoxious Pundit]: Exceptions! [BTS]: Lot of exceptions. [Obnoxious Pundit]: I do not like your tone, and I would be remiss if I did not point out that Noatar is one of the most ancient and respected of the Empyreans. Empyreans associate with the most distinguished of superheroes. They are our kind of people. Whereas you are entirely declasse. After all, when you get right down to it, good does one thing, evil does another; so, really, both sides do it. Even if Noatar were an evil mastermind, better an evil plot succeed than some youngster violating sacred norms of civility, I am saying. I would not like to be in your shoes right now, and I cannot say that I would be very upset if I heard that something untoward happened to you . . . In other words, it's obviously Noatar, but saying that out loud would be like admitting that everything isn't fine. Lord Liaden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 Fortunately for the human race, Noatar officially is a misanthrope. He doesn't even hang with his fellow Empyreans, preferring the company of the extinct animal species he's recreated and keeps in his own nature preserve in the valley of Arcadia. Which is one more reason why he wouldn't want to mingle in human society; but I'm sure he keeps up with the latest human studies in his field, just as his fellow Empyrean Brax follows the evolution of human legal systems. That's how Jakob Stroessen would have come to his attention. Noatar wouldn't want to "pull strings," not out of benevolence but disinterest. However, if a GM wanted such an influence on human evolution, Noatar would be easy to turn to that purpose. He might even live apart from his people not by choice, but because of exile for just such behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 Is Noatar the Champions version of Apopolips, and then wouldn't Tellos become Mister Sinister? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 Um... no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 True. Do we need an analog of the ancient survival of the fittest mutant and the genetic midlevel mastermind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 "Need?" I suppose that's a matter of GM preference. A GM could readily modify Noatar and Teleios into analogues to Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister for their campaign, if desired. Teleios could then become a front for Noatar's true purposes. OTOH Noatar himself could be in service to and acting on behalf of the Empyrean king of Lemuria, Arvad. Arvad is ancient, ambitious, and evil, and has powerful mind-controlling abilities. He could be behind a lot of events, past and present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 True. We do love our character analogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 If I could prevail upon y'all to resolve my ignorance: All of this exists, published, for a game setting that has formalized mutant hunting. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amorkca Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 I believe you'll find information in The Mutant File. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 7:09 PM, Lord Liaden said: Nope, that detail has never been officially defined. It's one of the deliberate mysteries left in a few of the character write-ups, for individual GMs to resolve however best suits their campaigns. bubba smith notes above one of the possible rationales for doing so. Steve Long has mentioned that he considered writing a Book Of The Helix delving in depth into Teleios, before Hero Games downsized. I imagine we would have gotten his take on the Perfect Man's origin then, as he did with some other of those "mystery" origins. A few fans have proposed their own theories; the most popular seems to be that Teleios himself somehow went back in time to give his younger self those secrets. (Not my personal preference FWIW. I've never liked closed time-loops -- I'm more comfortable with causality.) For a well crafted closed time loop, look at Spellforce 1. At first glance the book they fight over in the intro might be a looping thing. But it is actually lost in the battle. It is only written after the Convocation by Darius. And then get's to the past like young Rohan. And there is no reason the first itteration could not have happened without old Rohen, so that only makes the 2nd loop the game one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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