Third Edition Renaissance

[Ninja-Bear]

7 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

I am not disgreeing with you, Sir. I just wanted to point out that what you describe is the basis of minmaxing. 

Ok I reread your post and I got the meaning (I think lol). I guess my point is then that minmaxing isn’t necessarily wrong, it depends what the intent is. 

[Duke Bushido]

56 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Ok I reread your post and I got the meaning (I think lol).

 

If you got a chuckle-- or even a snort-- then likely you got what I was trying to say.    

 

 

56 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I guess my point is then that minmaxing isn’t necessarily wrong, it depends what the intent is. 

 

 

I agree whole-heartedly with that!

 

Sometimes you lack just a point or two from getting what you want, so you refigure a Primary so get a couple of pips of Secondary for free; pull your two points back out and spend them on that last die of EB-- that sort of thing? No real problem.

 

You want to become the next Davien-- just see just how much you can get, just because you can figure out how to get it?  That's a more difficult call, honestly, but it does tend to raise my attentiveness a bit.

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

I’ll admit for years I never bought COM because it didn’t help with combat.

[Pariah]

It's nice to see that this thread hasn't died in my absence. Keep up the good work, folks!

[Greywind]

You were gone?

[Ninja-Bear]

Feel free to comment on the builds I posted. Feedback is always welcomed. 

[Ninja-Bear]

Duke for Disadvantages, do you add in Watched as an option for Hunted? 3rd seems very  limited as to what Disadvantages are available. Any other you imported from other editions/sources?

[Chris Goodwin]

Back in the day, Watched and Hunted were separate disads.  I'm not Duke, but I don't remember us using Watched all that often with Champions; if we did, we probably doubled the FH/DI values and rounded up to the nearest 5 Points.  I'll have to check those books again to see how that matches up to 3rd edition numbers.

[Duke Bushido]

Like Chris said:

 

Watched came latrr-  one of the Champions-named supplements, but I don't remember if it was 2 or 3.

 

I will look it up for you if you'd like, but not tonight.  Just got in thirty minutes ago, putting today at fifteen hours of work and I've got to solve an upload problem before I collapse in the shower. 

 

You'd think I'd know it cold, since I play the old stuff, but the fact is we never used Watched more than two or three times in what-- nearly half a century?  It's no less stupid in an RPG than it was in the Highlander TV series:

 

I'm a watcher. 

What do you do? 

I watch. 

So you collect data and make records? 

Yeah; sure.  I guess that makes sense.  Mostly, though, I watch 

And when you see that one of us is prepared to make our move....? 

I'll watch. 

Watch what? 

Watch you make your move. 

You'll _watch_? 

Yep.  I'm a watcher. 

You won't try to stop me? 

Oh, heavens no!  I'm a watcher.  You'd need a stopper for that kind of thing. 

So...  You'll get a stopper? 

What?  No.  That's a go-get-a-stopper's job.  I'm a watcher. 

So what would you do? 

Watch.  I told you that.  I'm a watcher, and I'm very good at it. 

So when I behead the noble count of so-and-such, you're just going to _watch_? 

That's what I do. 

And that's _all_?  Nothing else? 

Well that writing stuff down thing you mentioned-- that seems cool.  I guess I could try that.  You know, unless it interferes with my watching.  Can't put watching on the back burner.  Always something to watch, you immortals.  Always, always, always...   Say?  Why are you shaving your legs?  Your a guy. 

We'll I've got a bicycle race tomorrow. 

Oh yeah, that's right!  I've got to watch it..

Seriously? 

What? 

You're going to watch me race a bicycle.?

Of course.  I'm a watcher, and a damned good one!

Why?

Why what? 

Why are you watching?  Why are there watchers?! 

Everyone needs a job, watching doesn't require three years experience, and everything else involves actually having to _do_ something...  Did you know that when you killed that guy over in that alley last summer I could see everyrhing from my air-conditioned booth in that diner across the street?  Man, that's the way to work, right there.  Big ol' root beer float, air conditioning, and more watching than you can fit in two eyes.... 

 

. "Watched" just doesn't pan out to be anything remotely interesting.  "harassed by" works better.  That's what we use as a half-value Hunted. 

 

Watched (and by extension, Watchers) is (are) stupid. 

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

Well I think I’m going to mess around with making campaign. (At least put stuff on paper more than play time.) So I’m going to also make some House Rules. The one House Rule is then I’m going to increase Base points to 150 pts.  (I really hate trying to find disadvantage points.  I usually take more than I really would to make points and then regret it.) And even though 3rd recommends 250 pts. I’ll start messing with just 200 pts and see where I go.

[Duke Bushido]

As an alternative, consider doing away with the diminishing returns rules.  That way you don't have to hunt up as many disads, but you still have to hunt up enough to flavor your character.  

[Scott Ruggels]

I think watch was an evolution of “Monitored” from Espionage!  It was supposed to represent non hostile organizations that could turn hostile, if the character crossed a line or broke a rule. I will have to check the character binder to seenho nInhandles it with the old, pre-Champions III characters. 

[Chris Goodwin]

In our DI and FH games they often represented a character's own organization keeping tabs on them.  Or an enemy organization, or an allied one -- like how a CIA agent might be watched by the FBI when in the US.

[Ninja-Bear]

If anything I’d increase to the point for Vuln to Body. I still can’t believe both Body and Stun are worth the same.

[Duke Bushido]

Why not? 

 

They are equally-protected by your defenses, and in terms of deadly situations with your enemy, unconscious is as good as dead depending on his plans for you. 

[Ninja-Bear]

10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Why not? 

 

They are equally-protected by your defenses, and in terms of deadly situations with your enemy, unconscious is as good as dead depending on his plans for you. 

I figured that might be the case however in the battle, taking Body is worse than taking Stun. Dead is Dead.

[Ninja-Bear]

And the biggest thing is Stun you can recover during combat Body not so much.

[Ninja-Bear]

Also Leaping will follow the other movement powers. You can do a combat leap for a half phase.

[Ninja-Bear]

Rivalry. I’m going to add this. I dislike Berserk but feel comfortable with Rivalry. That and Enranged which makes more sense with the previous sentence.

[Ninja-Bear]

Duke funny about the watchers however didn’t talk to someone else about mixing sfx and mechanics? 😁. Really Monitored seems to fit the mechanics better.

[Pariah]

As a quick and dirty fix for Monitored / Watched, you could build it as a Hunted and then deduct 5 or 10 points to reflect reduced severity.

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

As a quick and dirty fix for Monitored / Watched, you could build it as a Hunted and then deduct 5 or 10 points to reflect reduced severity.

Thanks l. That’s sorta what I was thinking. I was just to do hunted then give it half value.

[Ninja-Bear]

Rivals I’m going to use psychological disadvantage.

[Ninja-Bear]

The one thing I’m going to work on is to set agents “right”.  Is 10 D6 is considered Average/Decent attack and 8D6 is low end then the Agents should not be able to take a 10D6 easily. A bad roll? Yeah of course. 

[Duke Bushido]

1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Rivals I’m going to use psychological disadvantage.

 

It works either way.  If they are actively impeding you in some way, it's a physical limitation, too.