False Prophesies

[Michael Hopcroft]

I know prophecies, warnings, and omens are an integral part of most fantasy campaigns -- after all. they were important in LOTR. But what if the prophecy that sends the PCs towards a quest was false, or if it was somebody's psychotic delusion?

 

"He's the Chosen One" is a common prophecy. And of course, by the time he realizes nobody chose him, he'll have made such great strides that he is already a hero. But how does such a hero react to the revelation that he wasn't originally all that important?

 

"(insert person or group here) will destroy the world!" almost goes without saying. It can be pointed at just about anybody -- regardless of their actual nature or intent. We've got so many real-world references to cite that I don't need to mention any of them by name.

[Lord Liaden]

David Eddings' Belgariad fantasy series took an interesting tack on prophecies.

 

In that world there were two "rival" prophecies, one essentially of doom, the other of salvation. Both were identical up to a point where they diverged. The prophecies were sentient and sapient, and chose vessels whose conflict at the point of divergence would decide which prophecy continued forward.

Adherents of the "doom" prophecy, and the faction it represented, attempted to interfere with the "salvation" vessel to prevent the conflict from ever happening.

 

[Cancer]

I'm leery of prophecy and convergent plot arcs, because way too often they are depressingly predictable and frankly unimaginative.  My big complaint about a lot of video games (looking at Diablo II here, the last one I played front to back) is the fraudulent urgency  "Hurry!  Stop the Big Bad!" over and over and there is in fact no way to do that.  If you fall for that you'll miss out on the experience points to make you stronger, and the better loot to get better equipment: it is nothing but stupid to do what all your in-game advisers are advocating.

 

Oracles are never clear, and constructing vague if apocryphal (but not purely content-free) warnings is hard if you're developing a game plot rather than writing a novel.  But real divination is hard to pull off, and foreordained developments if done wrong often smell like a bad plot railroad (because that's what it is).  If the group is full of butt-kickers with little use for plot b******t it's easier ... but then why bother when they don't really care?  I've been on such bad plot railroads, when everyone (but the GM) is so frustrated at being unable to do anything meaningful that it just turns into a countdown until Whatever It Is Finally Happens.  You no longer care who wins the Last Battle, and in fact you hope you all get killed because then it's over faster.

 

If you can involve the PCs directly in fabrication of the oracular portents it feels better, if only because it lets the PCs delude themselves into thinking what they do matters, game-world wise.  I don't have a solid idea about how to pull that off.

[Duke Bushido]

I don't want to throw this thread off-track; I would just like to point out that this particular inversion isn't really uncommon at all.  In fact, one of my favorite uses of this plot point makes it blatant immediately, and beats you over the head with just how blatant it is:

 

"and all this is true, because it rhymes."

 

 

 

 

Duke

 

[Christopher]

11 hours ago, Michael Hopcroft said:

I know prophecies, warnings, and omens are an integral part of most fantasy campaigns -- after all. they were important in LOTR. But what if the prophecy that sends the PCs towards a quest was false, or if it was somebody's psychotic delusion? 

 

"He's the Chosen One" is a common prophecy. And of course, by the time he realizes nobody chose him, he'll have made such great strides that he is already a hero. But how does such a hero react to the revelation that he wasn't originally all that important?

 

"(insert person or group here) will destroy the world!" almost goes without saying. It can be pointed at just about anybody -- regardless of their actual nature or intent. We've got so many real-world references to cite that I don't need to mention any of them by name.

Something I like for Prophecies is the Uncertainty Principle:

the uncertainty principle, a way of dealing with Predictions and Prophecies in RPG's that no amount of player activity or inactivity can break

 

Use it as the base rule, and I doubt any player can break it.

[assault]

The only prophecy I've ever used was: only the wielder of the Sword of Destiny can conquer the city (or whatever it was).

 

I didn't bother to point out that a sword is not a shield, and doesn't protect the wielder from other potential wielders.

 

This was a bit of a reaction against Dunsany's The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save for Sacnoth.

[Ninja-Bear]

It seems to me False prophecies would be easier to develop than real ones in game.

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

Real ones aren't too terribly difficult to pull off. 

 

Unless, of course, you get player characters involved. 

 

Seriously though: if you want to include Pcs as part of the myth, make sure that your prophecy isn't too intricate, has a couple of vague areas, and that the players intend to play together for several years. 

[Christopher]

12 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

It seems to me False prophecies would be easier to develop than real ones in game.

 

7 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Real ones aren't too terribly difficult to pull off. 

 

Unless, of course, you get player characters involved. 

 

Not if you apply hte Uncertainty principle:
"The more precise the prophecy, the less precise the reality (and vice versa)."

[Ninja-Bear]

Nah if you want a prophecy to be true it’s fairly easy. First make it vague then when the players seem to figure it out, make it so! Kinda like is there a trap? You didn’t have have a trap until THAT moment. I’ve done this with traps and other plot lines. 

[Pegasus40218]

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 1:10 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

Nah if you want a prophecy to be true it’s fairly easy. First make it vague then when the players seem to figure it out, make it so! Kinda like is there a trap? You didn’t have have a trap until THAT moment. I’ve done this with traps and other plot lines. 

 

I have to agree with this approach (though I never bothered to use it on traps).  Come up with a vaguely worded "prophecy" that could be interpreted a multitude of ways and let the PCs try to figure it out.  When they come up with a solution, IF you like it run with it.  If it's not to your liking, let the PCs pursue it anyway only to find out they were wrong.  But, if you decide that their interpretation is wrong (or only partially right -- which, in my experience is the better option), you'd better have an idea about what the "right" interpretation is.  Also, don't make them "get it wrong" more than twice (at most) or they'll lose interest in pursuing the prophecy at all and you'll find your campaign turned into a railroad.

[Jagged]

Quite a few books out there where the Gandalf type is inventing the prophecy as they go along.  Struggling to remember some titles tho

 

[archer]

On 2/22/2019 at 8:32 AM, Jagged said:

Quite a few books out there where the Gandalf type is inventing the prophecy as they go along.  Struggling to remember some titles tho

 

 

Yeah, i think players are wise to be skeptical of convenient prophecies which have the result of urging the players to follow some individual's agenda.

 

If you're lucky, he's a Gandalf. If you're unlucky, he's a Saruman and you have to then work to undo everything you just did. The "story arcs" on Full Frontal Nerdity demonstrates that prophecies are just GM railroad tracks to either destination and that you are better off killing everyone and looting the corpses.

[Christopher]

On 1/26/2019 at 1:16 PM, Christopher said:

Something I like for Prophecies is the Uncertainty Principle:

the uncertainty principle, a way of dealing with Predictions and Prophecies in RPG's that no amount of player activity or inactivity can break

 

Use it as the base rule, and I doubt any player can break it.

Dangit, apparently that Post of mine was hit by the Database purge. Luckily it seems to be the only one and I do remember it well enough to re-create it.