Ice9

Re: Alas, no more Independent! Items can still be stolen - it just means that now the player would get their CP back, and be able to make/obtain a new item within a reasonable amount of time.

Re: Why are Limited Defenses so costly? For attacks, or other powers you actively choose to use, that could often be the case. Teleportation that only works on Sunday, while certainly limited, probably isn't -6 limited. But for defenses, it's actually more like the reverse. Once word gets around that Heat King is virtually immune to flames, any foe that can will be avoiding flame attacks against him - even foes that only have flame attacks will tend to target his teammates instead, unless the GM is feeling generous. So I think it'd be more likely that if anything, you'd have to worry about the power being activated less often than initially expected.

Re: Game Master Lament I have to disagree somewhat here. There are limits to how much you can accommodate someone without ruining everyone else's fun. For instance, in our D&D game, certain activities must be performed between games, not during a game - creating a character, levelling up, and doing extensive equipment purchasing. Why? Because we only get to play that game once a month, and we're not going to spend it sitting around, waiting for someone to allocate their skill points. Now there are ways to make that less abrasive - we've got pregen characters, so if someone shows up with no character they can still play, and if they forget to level up, they can just play at their current level and do it next time. But we came here to play, and that's what we're going to do.

Re: Why are Limited Defenses so costly? I believe I said it would be preferable to have a sidebar explaining how to set frequency limitations, or a genre by genre list for some example effects, no?With "one size fits all", I believe Sean was actually referring to using the same values for PD/ED, Deflection, and Desolidification. Because different defense power encompass different subsets of attacks, using the same values makes no sense. For instance, in this hypothetical setting: All attacks are evenly split between bullets, plasma explosives, and swords. Only vs Bullets is a: -0 limitation on Deflection - All deflectable attacks are bullets. -1 limitation on PD - Half of physical attacks are bullets. -2 limitation on Desolidification - 1/3 of all attacks are bullets.

Re: Why are Limited Defenses so costly? This may be the crux of the problem right here. Conditional Power does appear to suggest a -2 limitation for something which is very rare. However, that is not an appropriate limitation value. -2 means (at most) a 2/3 reduction in cost, appropriate for something which applies 1/3 of the time. Now maybe in some cases, 1/3 is rare, but for types of attacks, very few will occur more than 1/3 of the time. Something which is actually quite rare, only occuring 10% of the time, should really have a -9 limitation value. Yes, -9. I would, however, say that this is only a full limitation for things - like defenses - where you don't get to pick when it gets used. Hierax has a good demonstration of why this is the case.

So I've got the books now, and they're looking great - already got some cool ideas for Barrier, and having a Transform level between "minor penalties" and "you are a frog" is excellent. But looking through the APG reminded me of an irritation that doesn't seem to have been fixed - limited defenses are significantly overpriced, by any logic I can think of. For instance, limited Deflection, in the APG - not the only example, just the one I was reading today. There are a number of modifiers which are questionable, but the ones which really stuck out are this: * Only vs Physical Projectiles: -1/4 * Only vs Energy Beams: -1/2 Does Not Compute! Those modifiers do not fit in the same campaign as each-other, because you can't have 80% projectiles and 66% energy beams at the same time! And it's not just that power - pretty much every example I've seen of a defense "Only vs Fire" or "Only vs Bullets" has been significantly underlimited. Now I can see the logic that - for attack powers, something that works against half your foes is still better than half as strong. Most characters will have more than one attack option, so it's not like you'll be trying and failing to blast them with it more than once. But for defenses, that doesn't apply - you don't get to pick what attacks your foes have, and well-informed foes will be specifically targetting any weak spots. There's also the factor that the same modifiers seem to be used for overall defenses and physical/energy specific defenses, but that really doesn't work. For instance, in a Champions campaign, -1 might be a good modifier for "Only vs Bullets" on PD. But on a general defense like Deflection, it should be -3 for the same frequency. With that in mind, here are some values for a typical Champions setting. * Fire (Heat): Including heat effects like microwaves and laser beams, probably includes half of energy attacks. So -1 for energy-specific, -3 for general. * Fire (Just Flames): Much more limited, this is probably a quarter or energy attacks at most. So -3 for energy-specific, -7 for general, and maybe lower. * Bullets: Important distinction here - for ranged-specific defenses like Deflection, they're easily 2/3 of physical attacks (-1/2 phy, -2 general). Counting melee attacks, they're more like 1/3 of physical attacks (-2 phys, -5 general). NOTE: Would be more common in a realistic setting like Dark Champions. So - does anyone agree? Disagree? Have a good explanation? Have their own limitation values they've been using?

Re: A Question of Balance & Lethality Just curious, but doesn't a 2d6KA for something like a greataxe fall a little short against normal human opponents? If we assume an average person with 8 BODY and no armor, then: * An average strike to the body won't quite drop them to bleeding - they can walk away and eventually heal up with no risk of death. * An average strike to the neck/head will drop them, but won't quite kill them - they could still survive if they were bandaged quickly. Now for many weapons, that seems fine. But for a large weapon, against a fully undefended foe, it seems a bit odd.

Re: Damage Over Time / Extra Time I think the idea was that instead of, say, an RKA 6d6 w/ Gradual Effect, you'd have an RKA 1d6 w/ Damage Over Time, at a similar final cost and effect. But it does break down for damage which only happens one time - that should always be a limitation, not an advantage.

Re: I'm building a gold dragon on 350 points Does the dragon really need a megahex of space (1000km) to fly? Because that would be worth at lot more than -1/2. I'm guessing you meant "Radius 1 Area" - a hex and all the hexes around it. Also, what does "swimming + freeaction" in the Multipower mean? I agree on the "12' long dragon" disadvantage being worth the full 20, but I'm not sure that "gold scales" merit a second Distinctive Feature beyond already being a dragon. It is easier to identify - which only matters if there are other dragons in the setting - but at least they shouldn't have the "extreme reaction" component, unless somehow people react more extremely to a gold-scaled dragon than to other dragons.

Re: Usable [As Second Form Of Attack] (+1/4) How does this interact with other advantages? Let's say I buy this: Barrage of Arrows RKA 2d6, AoE (8m Radius) Selective, Usable as Blast NOTE: Blast is for blunt-tipped arrows When it's used as the alternate form, does it automatically have the same advantages (AoE Selective), or can it have different ones up to the same AP? So for instance, could you have this? Energy Beam RKA 4d6, Usable as AoE (32m Line) Blast NOTE: Would be 8d6 in AoE form.

Re: +30 STR as Focus (special effect, magic) The general rule gets funny in a few cases though - like if someone has extra Strength (Only for Lifting), or extra Presence (Only for resisting Presence Attacks) - those don't seem like they should be dispelled. On the other hand, there's the case where someone has a permanent magical boost to Strength. No limitations of note, but it makes sense that it could be dispelled (or aided by "any magic ability" Aid). I guess you could always put a -0 "Can be Dispelled" limitation on it, thus qualifying it as a power.

Re: What modifier would you give this? If it could be fairly widely and precisely used (and it sounds like it can be), then I'd put it at the -1/2 level, with "Only Elemental Magic", which is also a pretty wide category. If it was more just pure destruction, I'd put it at the -1 level.

Re: Love for Non-Casters? The problem is that I often see Deadly Blow used to model things like Sneak Attack, which represent striking a vital point, not striking harder. In that case, it doesn't make sense that you can only get full effectiveness with a bigger sword. Or he could MPA with Normal Attacks twice, and be doing more. It still makes no sense that the gaunlet somehow makes your punch less effective.

Re: Love for Non-Casters? In some cases, the 2x base DC limit makes sense. In others, it doesn't. One case where it really doesn't is spiked gauntlets for very strong characters. A character with 30 Strength, wearing 1/2d6 HKA spiked gaunlets, actually does less than they would bare-handed. But for something like a polearm, I can understand it - there's only so much force the weapon can stand up to. Now that's as far as strength goes. When the limit is applied to things like Martial Arts DCs and CSL DCs - things that don't just represent force - it makes a lot less sense. Why would a dagger be less capable of cutting someone's throat than a greatclub? IMO, the ideal solution would be that the limit only applies to damage added from Strength, and some weapons have a higher or lower limit than their base DCs.

Re: Is This Power Viable I don't think the intent was to get skills for free, just to have justification for buying skills with character points, as normal. Given that in some campaigns you wouldn't even need a power for that, I don't think this is at all a balance issue.

Re: Remote Self Destruct I think the Trigger alone would cover it - just make the trigger the receiving of a particular radio signal.

Re: Rule of X? I don't think a balancing system can work in a void - you do need some idea of what range opponents will fall into. For instance, Axel has OCV 20, Bob has OCV 10. * If the foes are DCV 5, Axel is only slightly better at hitting. * If the foes are DCV 10, Axel hits a bit under twice as often. * If the foes are DCV 15, Axel hits ten times as often! The same thing applies to attacks. In a game with DEF 10, two 8d6 attacks (at once) are better than a 12d6 one. In a game with DEF 25, they are much worse.

Re: Super Law: Power stealing I'd say it'd be in the same category as an assault that left the victim crippled. Sure, they still have normal human abilities, but using that as a defense is like saying it's ok to cut off a weightlifter's arm because he'll still be able to lift more than most people. Of course, this also raises the question of stealing/destroying a powersuit. If it was normal technology and could be rebuilt, then this is simply a high-value theft/destruction. But what if the suit is literally irreplacable? And/or the suit is necessary to sustain the wearer's mobility? For instance, a gaseous alien who uses an exosuit to move around. Without the suit, it can still live, but only within a specially constructed room. Similar to taking someone's wheelchair if it was the last one on Earth ... but as that situation doesn't exist, I have no idea what kind of crime it would be classified as.

Re: Rule of X? It is more complicated (and requires a 3d6 probability chart) but you only really have to do it once. I think even with a simpler method, comparing DCs-past-defense, instead of total DCs, will give you more accurate results. For example, if average defense is 24 (about 7 DCs), then a 10 DC attack is at least twice as strong as an 8 DC one - definitely more than 25% better. Which admittedly doesn't matter if you're just adding things, but when multiplied it makes quite a difference.

Re: Rule of X? Personally, for offense purposes, I use Damage * Hit Chance * (SPD + 1) Damage is average damage past campaign average defenses Hit chance is against campaign average DCV SPD is +1 to reduce the difference between SPDs a bit, because hitting hard at the beginning is important. So assuming an average DEF of 24 and DCV 8: A brick with SPD 3, OCV 7, 15d6 HA has an "Offense Value" of 57 (28.5 * 50% * 4). A speedster with SPD 6, OCV 12, 10d6 HA has an OV of 73 (11 * 95% * 7).

Re: Still Sleeping Seems a bit odd that this costs more than LS: Never Sleeps though. There are some situations it will come in handy, but I don't think it's actually better.

Re: Machine class of minds It would probably be more consistent to put the limitation on the powers themselves. For instance, a typical telepath could buy Mind Control with the limitation "Only vs Humans" or "Only vs Sapient Organic Creatures". A cyberpath could have the limitation "Only vs Machines". In most settings, I would still have "Significantly Non-Human" be a Perk/Talent, probably 10 points.

Re: Speeding up combat "Restrict SPDs" is Dead Wrong Technically it's the tighter SPD grouping that speed up combat, not the lower SPDs in general - I would expect similar results if everyone had a 6-8 SPD or a 3-4 SPD. However, if you're giving everyone a similar SPD anyway, why make them spend tons of points on it? Because of that, I think reducing the overall SPD makes sense. But really, what you want to avoid are PCs with 3 and 9 SPD in the same party, unless the 3 SPD guy really doesn't care about combat. It's not just combat effectiveness, a lower SPD means you actually get to play less.

Re: 'Hero System' online I would imagine that enemy models don't have the full set of player animations. "Bystander" NPCs might not even have combat animations. This is true, but I think it would mostly just end up frustrating the players, because probably 90%+ of walls have no other side. N-Ray Vision is the worst, because it makes the problem immediately obvious, and doesn't even look quite right when the walls are passable (they should still have pipes and whatnot). For the movement powers, it would be the "flimsy wooden door" problem all over the place - why do all these normal buildings have unobtanium walls? I was thinking more of using it on random people in the street. Same problem as N-Ray Vision - the limitations are really obvious.

Re: 'Hero System' online There are two factors making it difficult to do anything resembling a direct port of the HERO rules to a MMO. First off - technical issues. The following powers would be impossible or insanely difficult to implement in a computer game: Shapechange - Pretty much impossible, unless you restrict it to looking like player character models. Duplication - Would need impractical AI to control the duplicates. Summon - Would only work with a predefined summoning list, otherwise it would need impractical AI to control the summons. N-Ray Vision - Because there literally isn't an inside to the buildings you can't go into. Desolidification, full Teleportation, full Tunnelling - For the same reason. Telepathy - NPCs aren't actually thinking anything. Mind Control - Every NPC and creature would need the animations for every possible action. And Mind Control that wasn't possession-type would have the same AI issues as Duplication. Mental Illusions - No way to specify what the illusion is, no way to tell how a given NPC would react to it. Images - Like Shapechange, only possible if limited to existing objects/creatures. Really Fast Movement (Megascale, or even high NCM) - Breaks any system where content is loaded as needed based on where the character is - which is every MMO, AFAIK. Clairvoyance - The problems of Really Fast Movement and N-Ray Vision combined. Transform, Precognition, EDM - These are pretty much impossible. Then there is the balance. Without a GM or concept of fair play (and if you have thousands of players, there will be somebody with no concept of fair play), you can break the game wide open in a number of ways - Transform, Summon, Duplication, Usable as Attack, Megascale, Mind Control - just for a start.