Tasha

Be aware that on Far Future's website they sell a CD that has EVERY book that was produced for Traveller Hero, including all the Starship books etc that was developed and released by Comstar Games. For under $25

I think that Miller's RTFs are 5e.

10 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I see something this convenient and useful as more than a special effect.

IMHO the OP really didn't describe what he wanted to DO with the power.

Like I said above, I think people are overthinking this. Reasoning from ability description and not from functionality AKA from what the ability does, not how it works/looks.

That closet can be sheer special effect to many abilities. ie Multipower could have that as a Special effect. It would be good as a special effect for a VPP. In fact in someways it seems like the player is looking for a VPP if the character has a wide variety of gadgets.

14 hours ago, Colossus said:

What is the best way for a character in Champions to build a portable closet.  Basically a ring which projects a door on any surface and contains a small closet sized space to contain a costume and equipment.  Non-magical character with a wizard contact who created it for them.

 

Extra-Dimensional Movement built in a IIF and a really small Base built in a different dimension is one way, but that seems a lot of points for this.
 

Alternatively a very limited Megascale Teleportation usable only on others and usable only on my equipment could be more economical 

 

It should cost something as the character uses armor and weapons and the ability to summon all those focuses should not be free

 

Instant Change from older editions would work I guess, debut this is not really a shape change.

The first question should be what do you want that power to do. The ability to summon armor and focuses is just the limitation OIAID(Only in Alternate ID) instead of focus. It can also be a special effect for a Multipower that includes different guns. So each multipower change is just the character switching weapons in the extra dimensional space. If you want to change your clothes (ie Instant Change) that is a 1d6 Transform, Cosmetic, standard effect. (6e1 has it as an example under the Transform power IIRC).

So this is Weapon Switching (aka Multipower) with OIAID on each slot, and a pool limitation of IIF or a common OIAID on everything.

If there is more equipment than just the weapons that you wish to change, then you can go with a Variable Power Pool for weapons and equipment.

Clothing is the Transform/Instant change ability.


Don't start with something like "Extra dimensional closet"  You have to start by writing out what you want the power to do. ie I want a space where I can grab outfits, weapons, from thin air. Then you reason from THERE.

FH Complete and Champions complete are efforts to make those one game books. No edition of Hero System Champions has ever been a complete game. Fantasy Hero 1e was not a full game. They were/are a toolbox to create fantasy games. Even games that are more complete like DI/Espionage don't really come with campaigns. You are given options and tools to create your own genre game, but nothing else. The ONLY game that that has included a full campaign is the much maligned Champions New Millennia. You had a strong city background. Strong well developed NPC/Villains. There are great orgs, that are integrated INTO the overall campaign world.

THIS is where IMHO the fandom has shot the game in the foot. Longstanding Hero System fans demand that every game have the full toolkit available. Which means that every book gives you a bigger toolbox. Even the Fantasy World supplements are toolboxes.

PS everyone is really nice. In the past I have gotten into epic arguments with folk. It never got to the point of name calling etc. The few people who couldn't handle that were ejected by Dan.

2 hours ago, steriaca said:

Fusion? I guess you have to piece it together from Champions Fusion, Mekton Fusion, Bubblegum Crisis, DragonBall Z RPG, Usagi Yojimbo RPG, and a few others. I know DBZ and UY use Fusion Light rules.

Fuzion (with a z), was created for CNM. It is called that because they fused Hero system and Interlock together to create a new system. They just had the "Champions superpowers module added to the system" IMHO it's biggest issue was that they didn't anticipate that people would want the full Hero Superpowers toolkit. Which left a bad taste for 4e Hero players, who seemed to be willing to try it. But ended up angry that they couldn't build everything they could in 4e.

Which left many in the fandom automatically hating any mechanics that took anything from Fuzion.

4 hours ago, unclevlad said:

I think you make a good point that "starting" characters in Hero are closer to mid-level, seasoned characters in most systems...not just D&D, which is notorious for starting out as wimps.  V:tM starting chars are wimps...unless the GM gives a LOT of bonus starting points.  L5R...skills were just not good initially.  Shadowrun...well, some of that was gonna depend on build priorities.  So...yeah, stronger guidance would help.  Start at a MUCH lower power level than the overall world level...maybe, if the world level is 500-700 (with 700 being seriously rare) then the PCs maybe start at 250, with reasonably fast XP accumulation for a while.  Or 350 if you prefer.  I've also advocated for a very streamlined build process...FEW!!! limitations allowed.  Green Lantern's Power Ring isn't a focus.  If some character types can't be done, like the power armor guy?  Oh well.  Or...sure, you can buy it, but again...you don't get to take even a 1/4 limitation on a couple hundred points.  That's one of the issues that makes a big mess for any Hero game...raw character points don't tell the whole story.

 

 

 

 

IMHO this is the best part of any Hero System game. The default power levels are not for total neophyte characters. They are generally competent. Which is something I bring to as many games as possible.

I guess you are talking 4e-5er point limits? We always played with 350 pt characters (yes back in 4e days), Throwing DC12 for most things. In 6e I like 450-500 pt characters with DC 12 attacks.

For new players I would probably start with ~400 pt characters with CV based in Characteristics (No skill levels), all powers without Limitations, no advantages. Keep the characters VERY simple. IMHO it seems like Champions Begins did a GREAT Job of creating characters for Newbie players. Also, with characters getting complexity added after certain thresholds. I wish we had this years ago.

53 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Out of curiosity:

 

Where did you get the complete Fuzion rules?  Did you pull the missing bits from another game (I pulled them from BGC and .... bah-- some war-themed game that didn't call itself Fuzion, but it ws Fuzion), or where they published somewhere as a complete stand alone?  I would love to find a stand-alone set I could point at when people mention having had a hard time playing New Millennium.

I bought Champions New Millennium (1e) and both the supplements to it. Back in the day you could also DL the Fuzion rules for free from R.Tal's website. I should also have a Fan created PDF of the whole Champions powerset Fuzion style. I also own Hero Creator which included the Fuzion template.

They had flaws, they had figured characteristics that didn't work well with the base system. IMHO it would have been better if it used the 6e style of buying secondary characteristics. It was easy to run, and my mostly newbie (to Hero or Fuzion) players got it really quickly.

I have the CNM that stripped all Fuzion out of the book. I ran CNM using Hero 5-6. It was nice to have a game city that was on the west coast. Written by people who live here in the bay area. CNM is a big loveletter to the SF Bay Area. Unfortunately, it's very outdated now.

44 minutes ago, steriaca said:

Fusion? I guess you have to piece it together from Champions Fusion, Mekton Fusion, Bubblegum Crisis, DragonBall Z RPG, Usagi Yojimbo RPG, and a few others. I know DBZ and UY use Fusion Light rules.

Nah, you need the original CNM, Alliances, and Bay city. to get a full set of the rules. CNM also included truncated Mekton rules for creating vehicles. It also included Life Path for Champions which was VERY useful.

As sourcebooks they were IMHO the most accessible set of game world books that has ever been created for any Champions Edition. Characters(Villains) that I thought were boring in Champions 1-4 were interesting in CNM.

I currently play 6e as my preference.

I have been playing since 2e Champions released. Playing every edition since then. Spent a TON of time with Fantasy Hero 1e, played and ran a ton of Danger International, Champions 3e. We moved on to 4e and played that for years (Heck, I have a first printing 4e Champions signed by George McDonald). I played Fuzion for a bit, Then 5e and 5er. Settling into 6e when it shipped. I remember downloading the PDFs while I was at Blizzcon that year. It took so long to get printed copies, I printed out both books on my Color laser Printer and had them bound at Office Depot.

I have been part of the online community since the Hero System group on AOL appeared.

I disagree with your arguments against roll high. I am honestly sick of arguing the same stuff that I have been arguing for years. Again, there is ZERO point to doing this. There isn't going to be another edition of the game. So any changes are house rules. Do what you like with your game.

Of no interest to many fans who comment on these forums. The game has been bleeding old fans for a decade or so. With many of them finding supers systems that are easier to play and create characters in.

The cross section of players here are the ones who stayed, and are generally the folks who will stay until the bitter end. So isn't an accurate sampling of the fanbase.

You have to realize that the fandom has been having this argument for over a decade now. This isn't the first time this group of people have talked about this.

I say that it's the fans, because EVERYTIME someone suggests a good change. Every grognard will decloak and tell why we shouldn't change a single thing. Which IMHO is why we haven't seen larger changes to the system. I see this with pretty much every system with an established fanbase. This kind of backlash makes companies frightened to make any substantial changes to their games.

18 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

 

There is the forest you are searching for amongst all those trees.

 

HERO is complicated on the front end, once game play starts it is as simple as any other game, simpler than many.

 

Don't try to convince players with talk, put a copy of Champions or Fantasy Hero Complete down next to a Player's Handbook for Pathfinder or D&D Fifth Edition and do an honest comparison. HERO will lose on presentation, but complexity? I don't think so. 

 

Hero lacks two things. 

 

Number one is a consistent, unified and detailed setting. The CU is a mess. It has a good background and embraces every type of character and campaign but that quickly becomes it's biggest flaw.  It tries to please everyone at once and that prevents  it from having the depth to really explore the genre of any one campaign. The gap between characters who operate on the low end and the high end is untenable and it's attempts to make non-super authorities relevant  has led to some questionable choices in detailing military weapons.

 

The second and more important lack to me is the near complete lack of guidance and support for new GM's . Every project HERO starts to attract new players focuses on simplifying the game in a new introduction to players. Where's the advice for new GM's on how to balance power levels, how to set campaign metarules that customize the setting, that sets up rules for magic systems, or that finetune the interaction between the super and mundane worlds. Hero needs all that because that 1st level party in d20 will be pretty narrowly constrained on their options and the GM has time to grow with them but that starting hero group may be using the full gamut of the HERO rules. As part of this HERO needs to change it's philosophy on supplements. Create a new CU and then publish 2-4 adventures or mini-campaigns that use villains with a consistent power and skill level so  a solid baseline is exhibited throughout the universe.

 

Experienced GM's and players may want to change this up, but those are your core customers, they were going to buy anyway as long as your new system didn't alienate them. And that's the real risk of "making the game appealing to modern gamers". You run the risk of publishing 4th Edition D&D when the market wanted Pathfinder.

 
This is another instance where Hero Fans have shot the game in the foot. You set down a Hero System book ie Champions Complete or Fantasy Hero Complete. All you have done is handed a player two books with lots of flexibility, and like you said no guidelines for how to create characters. Even less given to GMs to create their own campaigns. Though admittedly there is GM support with NPC/ Villain books.

I would love to see something like a Pathfinder Adventure Path, with character generation that is simplified. Like with the Champions Character Gen Cards. Perhaps with each character type given a section, with Characteristics, prebuilt powers, Perks, Skill lists, Complications. Basically an On Rails version of character generation. With lots of customization, pared down, so it isn't anywhere near the full toolkit. Include options that players can buy with exp.

Also, decide an average power level for the characters (ie DC10, Dex 20, Spd 5 etc), and have Villains and NPCs built to challenge that power level.

Don't include the full power/abilities toolkit. Include with the PDFs, a supplement book that shows everything in their full Hero System Glory.

Again, this will never happen, nobody will put the cash forward create such a book. Old fans will complain that the complexity isn't in the main book etc.

I hope that Champions Begins will bring new people to the game.

The problem with this idea

19 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

SAS was pretty straight-forward D and D mechanics under the D20 OGL.

 

It failed.   The majority of the D20 material was hot for a moment and disappeared.  People try D and D for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is "because it is D and D."  Some try it because it is RPG that you can still find in any bookstore or Sprawl Mart and because they have heard of it.

 

Those are the people to target: the ever-dwindling number of RPG- curious neophyte.  The person who has a bad experience with one roleplaying game- even if it is just disappointment- isn't likely interested in an experience that has been modified to more-closely recreate what he didn't like the first time.

 

Dont waste your tine with the guy who wants to play D and D.  Target the guy who wants to play an RPG and cant make up his mind or hasnt settled on something.  Seducing the guy who is happy with his game is just uncool.  "He could be happier!" 

 

Well, that may be.  He might also be miserable, and resent forever that thinf that isn't D and D, cementing him from ever becoming a fan. 

 

I dont like D and D; I just don't.  I will make jokes about it; I will make disoaraging remarks about it; I will cast it in the most unfavorable light I can in any private conversation.  But I won't do it in front of someone who is genuinely having a good time playing it.  As much as I don't like it, I am happy for them that they do.  I am not about trying to pry them away from something they like just because I think,they might like something else a lot more.  Of course, that may be a personality trait unique to me: I never tried to chase a married woman, either.

The RPG Crash of the 00s was due to the huge glut of games, many that were just shovelware. Totally trash. It destroyed the market. Burying many good games under piles of garbage. It crashed under the weight of that, and the fact that D&D 3.0 became more unbalanced with every supplement released. Which is the real reason they released D&D 3.5 (also to weasel out from the D20/OGL license).

SAS was originally it's own system. The D20 version was added during the D20 Boom. There were also other reasons that one disappeared. Including the ownership of that company doing things that POed his writers, artists and money people.

You don't go after the HAPPY D&D player. They are unlikely to try other games. There are PLENTY of D&D players who play the game because it's what they know. There are other D&D Players who are unhappy with the system but keep playing because it's what they know and what others in their area play. The "Curious Neophyte" is going to play D&D more often than not. D&D is the brand name that everyone knows. It's the game that is on shelves at their favorite superstore and/or book store.

Hero's biggest player base in the 80s was disgruntled AD&D players. People who were modding the system to be less annoying. Very few RPG neophytes ever bought the system, unless someone introduced them to it yet. There are still disgruntled D&D players, who are looking for other genre games to play. Who might be interesed in playing a system that can model Action movies very well, and also do Marvel Style Superheroes well.

Nobody says that the difficulty is too hard. It just makes it easier for them to learn how combat flows.

That said. Everyone I know plays D&D of some sort or the other. They play other games, but even those tend to be D&D clones mapped to different genres. I have taught folk how to play Hero for decades. People just find it too complex esp character generation.

Not that this discussion will change a single thing in the game. At this point there will never be a new edition. The remaining fans will not abide with any changes to the rules. Figured Chars, is still something that causes fights 13 years later. The kind of changes that will make this appealing to modern gamers will never be made. At least not with the current owners of the IP.

The ones that I have modified, I have always kept the original credits section in. It just gets a bit longer as people add/ modify the formats

Rob Miller made some AWESOME formats.

There are sections in some of those sheets that are obvious that they were lifted or were used as the basis for other sheets. ie Comments being identical between sections in a number of sheets

You go after D&D players because they are the Majority of the RPG Market. Other systems have relatively small player bases. Mechanics make a huge difference in attracting new players and keeping them. I had my D&D group try to play Starfinder, and it was a bridge too far for them (Starfinder IS a huge mess). The easier it is to engage with the rules the more likely that the players will stick around.

The game and other Superhero games ARE attracting D&D players. D&D doesn't do Super well, and M&M is in many ways more complex than Hero. If we aren't careful, newer games with simplier character gen and play grab those players.

On 1/29/2022 at 9:26 AM, Cygnia said:

This is more on an online gaming forum problem than face to face, especially since I don't know the other players or the GM.  But, a D&D game just started, only 3 folks in the party and one player has basically said "I'm not gonna ask anything -- one of you make the decisions".  And the other player isn't posting squat.

 

Which leaves me as the last member feeling rather resentful having to carry everyone's asses.

 

What is a tactful way I can bring this up to the GM?  It will be in a private message (and no, it's no one here...the problem in question is happening way away elsewhere).

I am used to this in EVERY game I am in. I don't want to give everyone orders, but when I ask for opinions we spend a lot of time not making a decision. It IS frustrating, but if you have the Leader personality, then it's something you will see forever as you game.

This sheet was a group effort. Looking through a bunch of the Export Formats, I realize that ALL the character sheets have code yanked from Dan's original sheet.

I agree, With the x or less notation, it gives the feeling that there is a cap to skills etc. With a skill being a bonus to the roll, it feels more open-ended and not constrained

The reason you should care about this is that it's hard to find players that will shift from D&D to other game systems. They aren't 'stupid', we should just be looking for ways to make the transition from D&D to Hero as easy as possible.

6 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

How do we deal with the hit location chart?  😵

 

Sure, we can swap the head and the feet, but those vitals are still in the middle!!

Why WOULD you need to change the Hit Location chart. It's basically stand alone, so roll high or roll low looks the same.

I GUESS if you wanted to keep the roll high is best, then flip the chart completely

ie

3-4		Feet			
5-6		Legs			
7		Thighs			
8		Vitals			
9		Stomach			
10-11		Chest			
12		Shoulders			
13-14		Arms			
15		Hands			
16-18		Head			

6 hours ago, HeroGM said:

 

I know, as a web dev though we keep getting yelled at about table based layout.

 

Thank Gods for Grid and Fexbox now. 🥰

Keep in mind that these sheets were created a LONG time ago. Also, while it's messy as heck, it DOES a good job of keeping everything in the right place.

LOL it's functional, who cares what the code looks like.  

If you figured it out and fix my sheet, I will be happy to upload it and give credit to you. Also if you edit it, please add to the comments right at the top of the Sheet. So we can credit all the wonderful people who have further worked on the sheet, to make it more awesome.

Tasha

9 hours ago, tayliffe said:

Simon,

Thank you - it works. I have better idea on the logic now. Your and Tasha's assistance have been very much appreciated.

 

Now banging my head on something else, but I have more info to work with. If I can't figure out this next situation - you might hear from me again,

My Hero Designer install lives in my private Dropbox folder. That way, any machine that is connected to the internet can launch and use the the app.