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On 9/16/2020 at 6:50 PM, dmjalund said:

As far as I can see, there is nothing you can do with two linked attacks that you can't do with a combined attack

Except, of course, link them (with all the sundry options available thereof). And there are some others that your GM will probably look funny at, like combined attacks with more than one attack power that requires gestures and / or incantations throughout. I am sure there are some other minor edge cases, but I would agree they are rare. And you did specify "attacks", which points out another thing you can do with linked: Add in non-attack powers. Another odd edge case that sometimes matters but mostly not. 

The thing that Linked does is help you define your powers. If it does not work that way for your powers, combined attack away. If it changes, buy off the limitation. 😃

Sveta8, I think your question has be sufficiently addressed above, but I get your consternation. For me it helps to just think about what is going on and whether it is truly limiting or not. You can design a Trigger in in such a way as to be limiting, and in those cases it is really just Linked. 

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Thanks, Thia. I am aware of all the rules you outline and my example includes Constant as an advantage. They specific question would be: If I do not wish the power to be persistent or persistent like (ala Time Limit or Continuing Charges), is there another set of limitations that provide similar functionality but do not stay on when the user is knocked out?

I realize as the GM I can hand wave this or go with Continuing Charges with a "I get stunned or KO'd" as a stop condition for the power. I suspect I already know the answer and that there is no other standard rule for doing what I am after. And that's fine, I have at least 3 ways to hand wave around it as a GM, just checking to see if another herophile found an obscure rule that I was missing. If nothing else, if someone else comes looking for an answer they will also see this. 😃

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7 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Umm if you turn on the said Damage Shield (which most people do) then you don’t need Trigger. Btw it’s not that you couldn’t turn on Damage Shield during your phase, I’ve just haven’t seen it.

I think unclevlad was pointing out that Block (and Deflection) are Attack Actions and end your turn, so the Teleport would not be able to happen.

I don't think I agree with him on that one, since Damage Shield is generally also taken on other attack powers and does not end your phase and can happen multiple times both before and after you use an attack action in a phase.

However, as a GM I would probably disallow it because Deflection is specifically designed for blocking Ranged Attacks. This is made pretty clear in the text of 6E1, 6E2 and the APG's. 

In any case there are other ways to accomplish what you want that would likely end up being less expensive and not require GM hand waving. Triggered DCV or defenses with linked teleport would work (with the trigger being attacked by autofire HTH attack) for instance. 

9 hours ago, unclevlad said:

It has to be Deflection on a Trigger, and in itself that's at least a caution sign.  I almost certainly wouldn't allow it even against a ranged attack, unless it was a single-shot defense that took considerable time to reset.  

Deflection is a caution sign power all by itself. 😃

It sounds like your intent was to build something that allowed you to teleport away after the first hit in hand to hand (unless you went hog wild and adopted some of the APG II suggestions around ranged damage shields). I would say your implementation is not going to accomplish that under RAW. While "reality" would imply that nothing is truly instantaneous (look it up, chaos theory gets really interesting), we are talking about comic book physics here, which is more of a "you get what you pay for" reality. The AF has been paid for and barring a few interesting details will likely still hit. 

If you added some things to it, your Damage Shield idea might be able to accomplish what you want. You could, for instance, link some CSL's (or raw DCV with limitations) to it. This will depend on your whether GM's interpretation of "Small Group of Attacks" would include autofire hand to hand attacks. Otherwise, just buy the raw DCV with the limitation "Only versus autofire attacks after the first hit", probably a -1, depending on how common autofire HTH is in your campaign. The SFX is that you manage to teleport out before the remaining blows hit. I would allow either, honestly, since you are paying extra specifically for the privilege of not being hit by autofire attacks after the first. You could do something similar by simply buying any other kind of defense (PD, ED, Mental, Power, Reduction, Negation, etc) and add a limitation that it only defends against damage that would exceed the amount of the first hit in an autofire. Again, I'd probably give something in the neighborhood of -1 or more, depending on how common AF attacks are. The SFX is the same here. You'll have to figure out how fast you want your teleport to react (IE: How much DCV to buy), which allows your opponent to offset by buying more OCV for his autofire. That provides a mechanism for balance, although it might warrant making the defense slightly cheaper than 2.5 points per, play testing would tell more.

Note that unless you bought your Damage Shield twice it would not affect ranged autofire attacks (APG II pg 45 "The Damage Shield rules on 6E1 321 apply only
to HTH Combat."), but APG II, page 45 has a way around that for you as well. I think setting the whole thing up as a triggered power is going to be cheaper in the end, especially with trying to figure out the linked for multiple powers,etc. As always, YMMV, these are just suggestions, not rulings and you should check with your GM before proceeding.

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I have been working with Time Limit a decent bit recently on various fantasy type powers. Time Limit on a Constant power or an Instant Power with Duration Advantage: Constant is an advantage that essentially makes a power Persistent for a limited time period. As noted on 6E1, 346, making a power Persistent is a +1/4 advantage and even the lowest Extra Phase value for Time Limit is the same as that, so GM's may wish to cap it there. I'll probably be falling into that later camp, but that's not my question here.

The primary advantage granted by Persistent is to keep the power going even if the character is knocked out (or runs out of Endurance if it is required to maintain it). So in cases where the power does not cost END to maintain and the power SHOULD turn off when the character is unconscious... is there an equivalent limitation that adds time as a third method of turning off the power? 

Specific Example:

Spell of Burning Defense

1d6+1 RKA vs ED; 
Armor Piercing (+.25), Area of Effect: Personal Surface (+.25), Constant (+.5), Costs End Only to Activate (+.25); [45 AP]
OAF: Spell Focus (-1), 3x End Cost (-.5); [18 RP] 

As written, the power above would work until the user was knocked out, power was dispelled or some other reasonable condition for ending was met (say immersing in water). Best case would be someone knows of a rule book I have missed where there is a similar limitation that would have a nice chart that lays out limitation values. The ones under Persistent powers seem too high and the suggestion in APG 1 of a blanket -1/4 seems too low. Anyone have another place to look?

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10 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Internet, gone, those that worked in tech would have to become farmers or starve. Speaking of which, expect mass starvation, especially within large cities, if shipping and trucking is disrupted.  Lots of old skills do survive, and those in the craft trades become valuable. 

Hobbies that were previously seen as useless are suddenly very useful. Sewing, wood work, smithing, making chain mail even in some areas?

Cannibalism may become the norm in some areas. Or it may be a supplement that is frowned upon but not forbidden when it is outsiders being preyed upon.

You'll still need to make some quick decisions about internal combustion. I would start simply with something like almost any car made after 1970 simply don't function. They can figure out the exact reasons later. 

Currency needs to be explained or done away with. Local currency will probably quickly evolve and barter will have certain values in local currency to allow trade.

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11 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

What happened to Skype? 

 

I remember eight or nine years ago running a game over Skype.  Not too terribly buggy, even with the video feeds.  

 

Don't think I could ever do it again, though:  so many people breathing heavily into headsets..... 

 

I can't explain it, but that's got a seriously high gross-out factor for me..... 

We use roll20 and pretty much no headsets. Everyone is on speakers and mics, which does get some background noise once in a while but no heavy breathing. I feel you on that on.

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Hrm. How do you prevent things like signal tower arrays? These can actually transmit small amounts of information over vast distances quickly. For a fantasy take on that, see Terry Pratchett's "Going Postal".

Also, if you have speedsters or folks who can easily fly or teleport, letter delivery gets much faster.

If you leave combustion engines on the table then planes are around and also speed transport and news. If you take it off, are you resorting to horses or does Steam Punk / mysticism step in?

Additional Thoughts:

If you leave electricity on the table but have a change in the ionization of metals such that below a certain volume / area they cannot carry signal you could leave internal combustion engines and many other older versions of things still working but nothing with a computer or really anything below a circuit board that has say 12ga wire runs on it? Or perhaps some other material works but it is so expensive and rare that it is basically a military or ultra elite type of thing? Generators are fine, but you can't transmit more than say 1 amp (about 1/20th of current capacity) over a 12 gauge extension cord. And line loss is higher as well. DC become more the norm because of line loss.

Or make it logarithmic, perhaps an inverted n^2? The smaller the gauge, the less electricity it will carry until it reaches 0 at some size, say 32 gauge?

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14 hours ago, JackFlash said:

What I mean is, like. Say I have a concept for a low level speedster who tops out at 40 mph. How many hexes would I need to hit that? Exactly how fast is 9"?

Inches/turn * 0.3728 = miles/hour

So 40 mph = ~107 inches per turn. If you want their combat move to be 9" their speed would need to be 12.

14 hours ago, JackFlash said:

Another character has 30 PD, 8 rPD, 18 Body, is his Resistant Defense enough to make him effectively bulletproof to small arms?

 

Things like that.

Depending on your definition of "small arms" and if you are using Hit Locations or other optional rules.

So lets assume no Hit Locations, no optional rules. Fifty caliber Desert Eagle, 2d6+1 +1StunX. Max Damage: 13 Body, 52 stun. Nope, not immune.

If you are talking about things like a typical police weapon: Glock 17L, 1d6+2. Max Damage: 8 Body, 24 Stun. Yes, immune.

These are calculating maximums. On averages you will fair MUCH better.

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20 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

Oh, the house can also "communicate" to Shadow Boxer or anybody in residence by playing records on an old Victrola, or setting the station on an antique radio.  But I don't want any such communication to be too easy for Shadow Boxer to figure out (so no flipping between words on different stations to say something specific).

 

What form of warnings might the house give?  Maybe shadowy figures in the pictures / paintings?  Or something else?  What songs or old radio shows might it play?  (The older, the better as far as I'm concerned.)  The basement door constantly being locked?  Anything else?  I'm open to any suggestions.

For music I would just run a constant stream of songs with a Shadow theme.

Cliff Richard and The Shadows - Move It

https://www.lyrics.com/lyrics/SHADOW

Shadow Waltz - Bing Crosby (#1)

Chasing Shadows - The Dorsey Brothers Orchestra (#1)Henry King (#7)

Moonlight and Shadows

etc.

If you are going to a little more modern, this one may or may not be too over the top, depending if someone can recognize it or speaks middle Egyptian.

Nyarlathotep

Pictures can of course be Lovecraftian, even portraying Nyarlathotep if needed. Or even just silhouettes of tall thin men in top hats or the like.

Perhaps scenes of moon lit nights with shadows abounding? Maybe classical artists paintings that only have the colors of  red, purple and yellow?

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1 hour ago, Tjack said:

   For write ups of a lot of useful tech try Surbrook’s Stuff.  There’s a bunch of different vehicles and weapons both fictional and real to get ideas from.

Link: https://surbrook.devermore.com/adaptationsvehicles/vehicle.html

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18 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Stop:

 

I want to take a minute to post the reminder that I play 2e, and that Drains worked entirely differently then, and to be honest, I'm not sure I remember how the work in the newer editions, so what I'm saying may not help anything.

Drain did not really work differently, although it was not specific on the active points issue, as you point out. You still had to specify a power or characteristic. Champs 3 had the SFX thing, but so does 6e, see 142 for Expanded Effect and Limited SFX.

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20 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

First, make the Aid m.  Now the structure costs 20 points.  We'll need that if we want more than two levels.

 

Next, bump up the OCV and DCV slots to use the entire pool.

That does not illustrate the cost structure duplication. You are buying a different thing below.

20 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Now, let's bump it up a bit - we'll buy it as

 

75  MPP

15m  +15 OCV

15m +15 DCV

15m 8d6 Aid (24 or 27 standard effect - standard is normally 3/d6) to add DC's at 0 END  [actually it costs less than 15 since the Aid is Self Only]

 

120 points total (a bit less since the Aid is limited)

 

Now, go ahead and Aid your desired attack power.  That adds 24 AP (3 DCs).  Aid it again, so now you have the maximum 48 AP it can be Aided.  That's 6 DCs plus 6 points left over.  Now switch slots - you keep the 6 DC boost to an attack power, until it fades over the next 2 minutes at 5 points each PS12.  After the first PS12, you still have 43 AP, so 6 DCs.  Plus you get +15 to divide between OCV and DCV at your discretion.

 

That seems better than paying 120 points to be able to add 12 to OCV or DCV or 6 DCs, doesn't it?  Granted, you need two attack actions to get that DC boost, and two more for each additional attack you want to apply it to.

<shrug> I was not arguing that you could build a more efficient structure, just trying to get close to show how the cost might have been calculated absent any other insight into the process.

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1 hour ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

I've personally houseruled that Life Support is Innate, because:

A - turning off water breathing in Atlantis basically means the target dies.  Way too much impact for a tiny effect.  3d6+1 Drain is enough to turn off any individual Life Support, and the impact from doing so when it's in use is staggering.  

B - it's honestly not very good.  It defends you only against things that explicitly say it does, so it's a mother-may-I defense.  It comes up if and only if the GM or a PC has just the right thing for it to matter. 

C - there's a major category of character that "needs" to have total or heavy Innate LS to make sense, and that's a massive concept tax.  I'm probably going to sit down and adjust the points on LS someday, it's way too expensive if you're buying a lot of it. 

I don't think I'd go as far as adding Innate for free, I'd probably just rule it is a Defensive Power for purposes of Drain. I have ruled the same in the past for Defense Maneuver because of the outsized impact a small drain can do.

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Personally, I am fond of having the options there. As a GM you can reduce the costs for them if you don't feel they are justified. But the flexibility to have two points spread across OCV or DCV or add a DC of damage at 0 END to any attack seems to be a fair trade off in flexibility. 

18 MPP - 2 All Combat Skills

2m +2 OCV - 10 AP

2m +2 DCV - 10 AP

2f  2d6 aid, standard effect (7 points), Variable Effect: Any attack that does DC (+1/2), SFX: Adds one DC at 0 End for 7 AP.

That's as close as I can get to the effect without a lot more effort. That's 24 points, so +1 would be about 12. Now, if you don't want all that flexibility, you can certainly buy whatever you want instead or tinker with the costs if you are the GM. And as you already found out, Steve does not discuss why he did things, I think with good reason to avoid having people endlessly question his decisions (which they do anyway, but at least he doesn't have to read it all in the rules forum).

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1 hour ago, ScottishFox said:

 

I couldn't agree more.  This is excessive crunch and complexity being added to a system that already loses players to excessive crunch and complexity.

Easy enough to solve, don't use what you don't like? Or simply use an earlier edition. Many folks like and use 6e, many folks like and use other versions. There is no reason to use one you don't like as well.

Quote

It would be like having a lethal ultrasound device that liquifies brains: 1d6 RKA - NND - Does Body - Only against organics with brains  (NND is blocked by a full helmet or force field).

As Grailknight said, the problem is not the limitations themselves, but the fact that they can be changed at any time and be used to replicate the effects of other powers. Again, when building a power, go back to basics. What does this power do:

1) Does damage at range

2) Tunes target types at will based on criteria not perceivable to the character

Depending on whether it is area effect or not, it might also be selective.

Based on those things, people are generally saying that this power needs a great amount of flexibility, such as that provided by variable limitations with supplemental detects, or an MP or a VPP. Perhaps other constructs such as I laid out in my earlier post can be used as well, at the GM's discretion.

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7 hours ago, lensman said:

We are in search of proper game balance and that reaches, so far, into mechanics, SFX and metaphysics; ie Whether to incur additional expense simply because it could clarify beyond a simple mechanical construct of the system.

 

We, at least I am,  are looking for the simplest answer. And that may be outside of Powers in the system and include skills, see my EDIT in my last post.

I agree that balance is the major concern. I just try to go back to basics and move forward from there when I have questions about how to balance.

A Limitation that doesn’t limit the character isn’t worth any bonus (6e1, 364). I don't see how this limits the player in any way, in fact quite the opposite. It is an advantage to be able to narrow your targets at will, avoid hitting friendlies, identify the descendants of the ancient cursed bloodline, etc. compared with the fellow who has a equally powered blast that just jets fire.

So for me, it makes sense to pay more. Simple ways to do that: VPP. High flexibility at a higher cost. Power Skill with appropriate difficulty modifiers to "tune" the spell. Spell skills for each spell modification.

I am sure there are other ways to solve the problem, you just have to decide which ones work best for your and suit your sense of balance.

- E

So this topic spun this question off for me. If a power is taken with a Limited Power: Not versus XXX or Only works on XXX, are those limitations based on only the perceptions of the character who has the power? So to use Hugh's example, if it is Only Versus Women, would a passing (ie, undetectable to the character via normal senses) drag queen be affected? Or a more explicit example: Only affects people who are color blind. Would the player need a detect for those who are color blind or is the limitation sufficient?

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4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

He doesn't buy a Detect any more than a Blast, only affects women needs a Detect to do no damage to a drag queen.

I'd generally agree with this one, as long as the player confines his limits to things he could detect with his senses. I don't see how a power with no other modifiers knows who is color blind or whose great great grandmother had an affair with a lesser noble. But it is a valid question, I'll raise it in the rules forum.

- E

I just wish we could have threads about a topic without it becoming "X version of Hero is best" and "Obvs, D&D is the model we need to follow". 

To the original topic:

On 8/25/2019 at 5:06 PM, lensman said:

I have a MU who wants to put a limitation on Images, which last for a time based on END Reserve.

The Limitation is: Viewable only by X. Where X is re-definable. 

The possibilities Being: Only Seen by Ultraviolet vision, Only by those who are color Blind, Only by Orcs, Only by Party members, Only by descendants of X.

Images are not bought with Invisible Power Effect (IPE) Advantage with the limit, Not IPE v X. And trigger only speaks to the Power activating, not who can see the Images.

X being "redefinable" could be Variable Limitation, Variable Advantage, a MP or VPP. Standard limitations are not redefinable unless the GM decides they should be for some reason.

Only vs UV: I would probably buy this as some version of Variable Effect. If it is just variable spectrum maybe +1/4.

Only versus color blind: So how does he detect color blind people? And I don't think images can even do this, you are into mental illusions at this point. Maybe MP or VPP?

Only vs Orcs : I think this is Mental Illusions again, with selective area of effect. And maybe a detect, if the user does not want to simply use their vision to figure out who is an Orc.

Only vs Party members seems like mental illusions with selective.

Only vs Orcs : I think this is Mental Illusions again, with selective area of effect. And maybe a detect, if the user does not want to simply use their vision to figure out who is a descendant of X.

If they don't want others to even know the illusion or mental illusion is happening, then that is IPE for sure.

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EDIT: This is my 1,234th post. I am giving myself another XP for that. Yay, 3 XP! 😃

I am an outlier on this one. For new players I prefer something where they will have a good idea of the powers of their opponents, so I went with the Ninjas. All of them sound fun, though, honestly.

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9 minutes ago, mallet said:

So I guess, officially, to raise the damage of an attack against a certain target, Combat Skill Levels should be used.

With Hero, there is almost always more than one way to do things, even officially. Two have already been outlined (MPP adding and Partially limited powers) above besides the one you mention. Each has advantages and disadvantages that will help you figure out which fits your particular situation better.

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26 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

That's how I've always ran it and assumed, but there is no actual official Hero mechanic to make that happen, its just always been part of the game without mention or examination.

6E1, 399 has an explicit reference in regards to Multipowers and VPP's. Otherwise Partially limited powers on 366 infers it but does not refer to it as +xd6. Linking powers that are additive in this way is GM ruling territory (384).

- E

There are some guidelines for this in The Ultimate Mentalist. The gist is basically you buy it affecting DMCV and then Affects Ego not Body. The latter is usually a +0, but might be an advantage if the average EGO is lower than the average body or vice versa. Remember that without some refresh method the target can eventually become sane again and the normal Transform rules otherwise still apply.

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18 minutes ago, steriaca said:

This is a cool idea for a teenage superhero.

 

Considering the powerset of the team so far, everyone is going to think Lady Heart is a solo superhero.

heh. Phase is not invisible, just intangible. And not even that all the time.

- E