DreadDomain

3 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

anyway, does 6e build an EB into TK the way 5e built a ln Hth attack into size powers?

I was curious because I far as I can remember, we always used TK as "STR at range" and I wondered if it was our house rule. I looked into 6E and it says:

"USING TELEKINESIS Except where noted otherwise, a character can use Telekinetic STR any way he could use normal STR — it can pick things up, Grab characters, “squeeze” something, throw things (the same distance a character with that amount of STR could throw the object with a “Running Throw”; see 6E2 81), or “punch” an opponent."

The text is almost identical in 4E, 5E and 5ER. The punch effect has been RAW for a long time!!!

On 4/25/2021 at 1:23 PM, Sketchpad said:

 

Not really, @Christopher R Taylor. The sheets are a bit too basic for my use. I'm thinking we could use something a bit more robust honestly. I'm thinking we'd need the other stats since they do have a purpose in the game. I was playing around with formatting a while back and came up with the following. Still not 100% happy with it, but it's coming along.

 

 

I like this format better than what we have been seeing from HERO games for the last... year... decades... The worst features of the official layout are 1) the wall of characteristics (which you avoid on the sheet by grouping them thematically) and the block of text we often see with powers which you do not quite avoid here but it still feels less cluttered because you took away the costs. Personally, prefer to do away with the advantage and limitation values but add the Active Points of the power and the endurance* cost at the end; like this...  (60AP); END 6.

* But to be honest we quite often totally ignored endurance (less book keeping) which made the game flowing with no  significant loss of anything really.

For Skills and Talents, I prefer to have them one by line (like you have done with complications) rather than skillA 14, skillB 12, skillC 13, etc... because when a sheet as many skills it hard to scroll through  (to save space, I am using 2 columns for skills). 

Again, to save space, I am write DCV and DMCV on the title line with Defensive, OCV, OMCV with Offensive and SPD and Phases with Movement (Title is left-justified, OCV centered and OMCV right-justified).

None the less, I like your layout and the font chosen, it looks really clean.

12 hours ago, HeroGM said:

Some friends are discussing doing a 7th Sea game (2nd Edition). Has anyone looked at it? I've flipped through my friend's copy and it seems a bit different from 1st (which we used to play way back when). I've noticed they've changed the continent and opened up the "New World" for players.

 

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Unfortunately I have no insight for you. I just popped it to say you might want to ask the question on the 7th Sea forum (Chaosium) here https://basicroleplaying.org/forum/71-7th-sea/

5 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I think they are counting on Champions being dead creating a market place gap and I am doing my part to counter that

I don't want to sound too harsh but I don't think Champions factors in anyone's strategy nowadays.

Edit: Yes, I agree and empathize with the sad faces

8 hours ago, HeroGM said:

 

I actually got into Hero by mistaking Champions for Superworld. One of the guys I met in Italy had Worlds of Wonder and since I was leaving soon couldn't get in on all the character building. I caught "powers with points" and she. I saw Hero thought "Oh this must be it"

From Chaosium's board we have read that Steve Perrin might be working on an updated SuperWorld and that Chris Spivey has turner a full manuscript for a Modern Super game based on Pulp Cthulhu. At this stage, no further announcement.

The Design Mechanism is currently soft advertising their Mythras based super game, Destined (or so was it named as a working title). Apparently it will come out this fall.

There is definitely movement on the Super BRP front!

I have bought, read or played many superhero rpgs. If I want to get nostalgic about one in particular, it would be Champions 4e. If I want to play a superhero game nowadays, it's going to be Champions any edition. 

I really want to prefer something over Champions. In the end, nothing compares.

A game like Superworld has a lot of potential but they have to get the scaling right and they have to calibrate how living beings survives damage compare to how inanimate objects resist damage. A few ideas could be stolen from Call of Cthulhu 7e.

2 hours ago, fdw3773 said:

Yes, coming up with a character sheet format that works for you and the players for Hero System is more difficult than it seems. I remember printing off the character sheets from Hero Designer directly and it was a hot mess of font that was difficult for the players to read unless they had a magnifying glass. 🤪I later developed a character template that I liked for 6th Edition that was adapted from what I saw on Killer Shrike's website. It's attached as a reference and is in Microsoft Word format for easy input. If you like it, please let me know and I'll post it in the downloads section.

WonderWoman.pdf 369.25 kB · 5 downloads

I like this format. It's nice and clean. Have you set this up as a HD export? I have posted a while ago DC characters (in the download section) 

using a Word template that I liked but I have no clue how to make it a HD export.

Aldo Regalado has developped a nice format for his Superverse supplement. It may not be the final version but here is a good look at it. Not sure if he has made it available and set it up as a HD export https://tgidragonflystudios.wordpress.com/2019/01/01/champions-character-sheet-thrice-the-charm/

12 hours ago, fdw3773 said:

An example of each are attached for your feedback to see which seems more player friendly to read....the 3rd Edition or 5th Edition format?

Personally I believe the 5th format reads much better (and looks better) than the 3rd format.

On 3/29/2021 at 8:01 PM, DreadDomain said:

For some reason I keep thinking the runtime is 4 hours but I checked again today and it 3h52 including credits and all. I was intrigue by my assessment that "cutting 30 minutes would be easy" and kind of feared I was just believing my own BS. I rewatched the Intro and Part I (roughly 40 minutes) and I came to the conclusion that 10 minutes could be cut from it without significantly changing what is going on. To be fair, the start of the film is slow (to build drama I assume) so I do not believe the film could be cut by 25% but it did reinforce that cutting 30 minutes would have being easily achievable if the aim would have been a theatrical release, bringing it to 3h20. Possibly shorter if you cut secondary scenes like Barry saving Iris or Martian Manhunter. Of course they were not planning for a theatrical release so they did not bother.

Ok, I rewatched the whole thing (still loved it) with an eye on bringing down the run time. I am now convinced that because it was released on HBO Max, they treated us with the extended version and that a theatrical release at 3 hours would have been quite achievable. The last 30 minutes (the epilogue) could have been reduced by 20 minutes easy and, if no sequel is planned (which I think is the case) you can cut 30 minutes right there.

Even without totally extracting the epilogue, it is still 30 minutes cut from the intro, part 1 and the epilogue. You only need to cut 20 minutes from the core of the movie (roughly 160 minutes).  The main candidate would be to cut the scene where Barry saves Iris. It's cool but doesn't add to the story.

32 minutes ago, assault said:

Besides, I have a box of cheap wine and nothing better to do than design Champions characters...

What can possibly go wrong!

1 hour ago, assault said:

Bump, because there's a (soft) COVID lockdown here, and I'm not working over Easter.

Are you in Brisbane?

6 hours ago, slikmar said:

I am glad you guys liked it, I just feel, with the conversations, that DC again is trying to "catch up" to marvel by doing their first big teamup as the equivalent of IW and End Game.

I think you are not wrong. JL is a movie with stakes that are much higher than Avengers 1 or 2 and the sense of "holy crap, we will need to pull all the stops to win this" is a lot more like IW. I think trying to catch up was what they were trying to do.

10 hours ago, Bazza said:

A refresher in case people have forgotten: Thanos was the protagonist of Infinity War. If likewise comparison with Justice League, then Steppenwolf would have to be the protagonist, which he isn’t. 

While I agree, I do not believe that is the most relevant criteria. The stakes are much higher in JL than in Avengers 1 or 2 and I would are on par with IW.

10 hours ago, Bazza said:

And as for movie length, a 3.5 hr movie would be reasonable, and leave the epilogue out, put that on the home media release as a special feature, or in the main film as “ultimate edition”. 

Not a bad marketing ploy!

10 hours ago, Ranxerox said:

 

I think that they could have gotten down to 3 and half hours like Titanic.  Ditch the Martian Manhunter scenes which while cool Easter eggs didn't add much to the movie at hand, and Knightmare, which since we already know Darkseid is on his way is not really necessary.

 

For some reason I keep thinking the runtime is 4 hours but I cehcked again today and it 3h52 including credits and all. I was intrigue by my assessment that "cutting 30 minutes would be easy" and kind of feared I was just believing my own BS. I rewatched the Intro and Part I (roughly 40 minutes) and I came to the conclusion that 10 minutes could be cut from it without significantly changing what is going on. To be fair, the start of the film is slow (to build drama I assume) so I do not believe the film could be cut by 25% but it did reinforce that cutting 30 minutes would have being esily acheivable if the aim would have been a theatrical release, bringing it to 3h20. Possibly shorter if you cut secondary scenes like Barry saving Iris or Martian Manhunter. Of course they were not planning for a theatrical release so they did not bother.

8 hours ago, zslane said:

Given a complete lack of a Kevin Feige-equivalent in house and their unwillingness to lay the necessary groundwork for a shared cinematic universe, WB was wise to give up on trying to replicate Marvel's success. Unfortunately, they are incapable of putting together an alternate plan that yields consistent success. Every decision they make is countermanded by a new decision one or two years later. There is no continuity of creative leadership at WB/DC, and it shows. Having to answer to a corporate overlord that knows nothing about making a business out of an intrinsically artistic discipline hasn't helped much either.

Probably a fair assessment.

10 hours ago, Ranxerox said:

 

Yes, having seen Snyder's JL, I would kind of like to see it's sequel.  However, in the name of prying the DCCU away from his grimdark view of reality, I think I might be willing to forego the experience 

I did not find JL particularly grimdark. The sense of impending doom is there but it is counterbalance by lighter interaction (without being jokey) and a good dose of heroism.

2 hours ago, Spence said:

 

I think this snippet pretty much defines DC movies.  No matter what they do now, all anyone smells is the desperation.....

I feel they have finally stopped trying replicating the MCU. Which is a good thing, I don't see how they can catch up.

2 hours ago, Greywind said:

Well, if it was fear, the para-demons would be on them.

Thank God, this part is now gone!

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Yeah that's the thing.  Nothing I have heard about the Snyder Cut makes it possible to actually release in a reasonable run time.  All the stuff people found good about it -- deeper characterization, backstories, etc, are the parts that would have to be cut in order to get to a tolerable length for the movie.  Then what's left?

Having watched and loved it, I would agree with this. Now what is a "reasonable run time" and how much of a problem it is, is debatable.

Four hours for a theatrical release is too much but what is reasonable? Three hours like End Game? 3h25 like Return of the King?

I suspect that constrained by a theatrical release (which the Snyder Cut wasn't), it could have easily been edited down by 30 minutes. By a full hour? Not sure.

3 hours ago, slikmar said:

The problem I have, and I haven't seen it, is you are comparing it to the 3rd Avengers movie, not the first.

Why is that a problem? Justice League 1 does not have to be the equivalent of Avengers 1 and the end result (only talking about the Snyder Cut here) is nowhere near on par. I am comparing it to IW because it is much closer in theme but to be fair, JL is not IW. It's not the same movie andf it shouldn't be.

3 hours ago, slikmar said:

Watching it, is there anyway you think he could have pulled it off in 2 hours, which is what the first Avengers movie was.

There is a lot of built up in the first part of JL. Establishing the backstory of the Mother Boxes, Lois and Martha grieving Clark, the origin story of Cyborg and his relationship with his father. All of this makes the event of the stories more powerful as they unfold. Superman ressurection becomes a gambit because the team feels they will need him to prevail but turning the mother box on to do so will make it trackable to Steppenwolf, let alone connecting with the MB gives a glimpse of the Knightmare which make the whole thing look like a bad idea. Silas rescue and sacrifice is meaningful because of the conection with Victor and because it leads the group to track Steppenwolf, and so on. 

Could it have been shorter? Of course. Could it have been edited down to 2 hours without loosing a lot of the essence. I doubt it. Thankfully, the movie is broken up in parts so it's easy to stop. I might have it a bit mixed up and I would need to rewatch it to see if it is as clean cut but in short:

- Introduction: Reliving the Death of Superman

- Part 1: Introducing Aquaman

- Part 2: The Mother Boxes backstory

- Part 3: Cyborg Origin and introducing the Flash, first showdown against Steppenwolf

- Part 4 and 5 (it's getting blurry in my memory): The team understands what the Mother Boxes do, Superman is ressurected, they lose the last Mother Box

- Part 6: Final showdown in Russia (no Russian family involved) and the stare down with Darseid

- Epilogue: Knightmare, Luthor, Deathstroke, Martian Manhunter and wrap up

3 hours ago, slikmar said:

This wasn't Darkseid, though he makes an appearance, this was Loki working for Darkseid. But then, Loki had already had a story arc in the first Thor movie.

This is where the analogies fall apart. Steppenwolf is not Loki nor is he Ultron. He actually feels more like Thanos but is clearly not Thanos. Darkseid is also not Thanos. We see him in the movie but he is the evil looming, waiting in the background. He is actually not that interested in what's happening on Earth until it is reveal that the secret to the Anti-Life Equation is on Earth.

JL feels a lot more like Infinity War but is also very different. It does not reast on the background developped over dozens of movies. It needs to do a lot of it in the first half. It does not have a cast of thousands like IW so the story is a lot more focused on a single story. It ends with a victory but with the sense that the worst is to come. Baring a miracle there won't be a sequel.

3 hours ago, slikmar said:

I realize that the Whedon one, apparently, had more reshoots then originally thought, but he was still limited to the story that Snyder had done.

It is now clear that what limited Whedon, was not what Snyder had done.

3 hours ago, slikmar said:

And Snyder coming back and doing a 2 part movie, that WB would NEVER have agreed to put out and saying "See how much I could have done" is stupid. He would have been forced to put it out as 1 movie in 2 hours.

I unfortunately have no insight on what plans there were at the studio level and how it would have been managed.

3 hours ago, slikmar said:

but again, the MCU had already done IM, Thor, CA:TFA and introduced EVERY hero in the movie in some way or another, a point others have made. I guess my only new point is the original, that this should have been the equivalent of the first one.

I don't see why. Justice League is Justice League, not Avengers 1, 2, 3 or 4. We can draw parallels and compare because it's often how we analyse but in the end, JL did not have to be any of those movies. It just had to be Justice League. Josstice League really did not succeed at it.

4 hours ago, slikmar said:

I would have used Wonder Woman's movie for this. I mentioned before, you could have done the first WW movie with it starting with Bruce and Diana on his jet and her telling her story - flashback to the movie. Then at some opportune point, have Bruce ask a question and you see one of the other 3 sitting there with them with a brief flash of them bringing them on, then back to the story rinse and repeat, so that by the end of WW, all 5 are sitting in the jet heading back to new york.

I was trying to limit myself to the movie made but if we want to go down a bit further into Elsewolrds territory, a Wonder Woman and an Aquaman movie in between BvS and JL would have made a lot of sense. Both establishing the characters (and others as you suggest) and the Mother Boxes in their respective areas.

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

To be fair, the bulk of characterization for the Marvel heroes had been built up over ten years and twenty movies.

Absolutely agree. As you move into Infinity War most of the background is done so they had the luxury to focus on movie from one action scene to another without much character building.

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

But I would say that Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Black Widow, Hulk, Gamora, had strong character arcs over the last two Avengers movies.

In Infinity War only, there is almost none of it except for Gamora and even then it is fairly basic. There are some good interactions and plotlines (Stange/Stark relationship, the Hulk performance issue, Thor witnessing his brother and best friend's death) but everything is very superficially brushed over for most of the movie. But IW is not really aiming at character building or emotional build up. It's a good, moving from one action scene to another, superhero crossover movie. The high number of characters involved is both a bane and a boon. A larger number of them don't really have any spotlight time but the sheer number of them makes the movie feel epic.

2 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

Well...instead of origin movies...let's just say solo movies featuring said characters. Point being...they needed those solo films before they threw them together.

I don't think the Marvel way of establish their cinematic universe is the only way. It's not like we needed the Luke, Leia, Han and Chewie solo movies to appreaciate Star Wars. In retrospect (hindsight 20/20) and having seen the Snyder Cut, I could have seen a build up based on Man of Steel introducing Superman (and Martian Manhunter even if only as a background/secret character), BvS (but a better one) introducing Batman and Wonder Woman, Justice League Part I gathering the team and introducing Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg and leading to their defeat against Steppenworl and the loss of all three boxes. And Justice League part 2 bringing back Superman and leading to the defeat of Steppenwolf.

4 hours ago, death tribble said:

I was going to ask if anyone had seen the Snyder cut as clips are appearing on Youtube. Darkseid looks mean.

Seen it. Loved it. The build up is long but it makes the stake feel very high. The movie is as epic as say Infinity Wars or End Game but does not benefit from the dozens of movies to set the scene. IW and EG were fun, flashy, colourful and entertaining but not a lot of characterisation. They are comic books on a big screen. The characters in JL are more fleshed out, more engaging. Every main character is fleshed out in the first half and they all significantly contribute to the victory (Cyborg and Flash even more so).

Having said that, I watched the movie with the acceptation that it was A Zack Snyder movie, knowing what the tone would be, what colour palette he would use but above all (at least for me) I watched it accepting the interpretrations of Aquaman and Flash did not match my vision of the characters. It's not that I do not like Momoa or Miller, they are not just the Aquaman and the Flash I expect. If I had walked in there thinking that I wanted to watch a Marvel movie, I would have been dissapointed.

My view is that the Snyder Cut is better than most Marvel movies.

I just watched the Snyder Cut. Holy crap, it's good! It's long and it starts fairly slow but it builds up the characters and the story nicely and by the time you get to the climax, you have a sense that it was difficult but worthwhile to get there. When Superman shows us in the final scene, he tips the balance so finally the team can hope to win but he doesn't save the day. Everyone plays a role. The Darkseid/Justice League stare down was brilliant.

The movie screams for a sequel and a Batman/Deathstroke movie. 

On 3/23/2021 at 11:30 AM, Terminax said:

The reason I had asked, is checking my version of Champions Complete, is that you specifically can't use Combat levels to counteract the penalty of Multiple Attacks plus you can't use Autofire or powers with Extra Time, among other restrictions.

To be honest, I am not too worried about that. HERO always had this tendency to tell us "don't do this" for fear of upsetting game balance. Some of the builds in 5E, 5R and 6E tends to be clever, complex and convoluted. I prefer them to be simple and easy.

In this case, there is a maneuver doing exacly what you want and you have a computer system that counteracts the penalties of the maneuver. So let's do that with the rules. PSL, Rapid Attack and Two-Weapom Fighting are a good start to do just that. Note that TWF does exactly what later they tell us "shouldn't be done".

The next step is to look at the point value. You do not state the framework of your campaign but 33 points is equivalent to have a 2d6k with a +1 advantage or a 4d6k with a +½ advantage or +3 SPD.

Also on Drivethru with a POD option.

No preview unfortunately. Island of Destroyer still does not have a preview either.

5 hours ago, pawsplay said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't you just buy all the attacks, and use them variously for Multiple Attacks and Combined Attacks?

This is what I would do. Multiple Attacks and Combined Attacks cover a lot of situations.  To avoid or minimise the penalties of multiple attacks, I would take inspiration from Two-Weapon Fighting, Rapid Attack and Penalty Skill Levels. As an example:

Automated Targeting Systems: While using ATS, ranged Multiple Attacks take a half phase and OCV/DCV penalties are reduced by 4 each (33 CP)

You might want to add a condition or two like "Requires a Computer Operations skill check at -3 to activate" or "Drains Battery (Cost 3 END each phase)" both a -½ limitation which would bring the cost down to 22 CP or 17 CP if both are required.

Sub elements come from:

a. Ignores -2 OCV, allowing to make an additional attack at no penalty (based on two-Weapon Fighting) - 10 CP per level

b. Counteracts 1 DCV penalty imposed by the Multiple Attack maneuver. It can never raise DCV above the character base value - 2 CP per level

c. Multiple Attack only takes a half phase (based on Rapid Attack) - 5 CP for HTH or Ranged only; 10 CP for any kind of Attacks.

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Except that it happened because Vanguard exhausted all his power crashing into that asteroid at ludicrous speed to shatter it.

I understand the rationale. It just feels a grim fate for such a great hero... unless it was to make sure that no body was found. Because you know, if there is no body... 

7 hours ago, assault said:

I prefer the burned to ash version.

It means his body was never found, if you get my drift...

And.... I should have read all the posts before replying...

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

The only other illo of Vanguard I'm aware of is on p. 155 of Champions Universe 6E, which shows his animated corpse pushing out of his grave at the command of Takofanes. In that his costume colors are dark blue, purple, and dirty gold, but that can be attributed to his decayed state.

That might be what I remember

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

Of course in Book Of The Destroyer it states that Vanguard's body burned to ash on reentry to Earth's atmosphere

That is not very superhero-y...

On 3/12/2021 at 9:44 AM, segerge said:

 

He also appears once in Book of the Machine, which includes the factoid that Vanguard's superhero costume was blue and gold.

I am fairly sure I saw a picture of Vanguard and his costume was blue with red cape and trims. Must be a 6e book since everything was black and white before...

2 hours ago, steriaca said:

And no fair calling Bizarro Vanguard "Rearguard".. 

I love it!