Re: USA 50 Discussion
>>>> I concur with Oddhat in many respects. However, my issues with the book go beyond this.
The words of Oddhat seem unavailable to me. I cannot imagine him reading anything I wrote, much less commenting up on it. Where did this take place ?
>>>>>The characters in the book are neither balanced, playable, nor make a great deal of sense. If you inserted player characters into this universe,
So, your group played them and they didn't work, Or you surmise they don't work from just an armchair reading ?
>>> you would have to come up with some truly complicated designs to get them to work. The world was entirely concept driven, which is a great idea until
Plus, please define your term "work" in this context.
>>>you realize that all PC's start on the same number of points, and may have to create some really broken constructs to fit into the world.
All PCs have the same number of points ? I suppose in many games they do. Not all everywhere. Are the USA5O all intended to be PCs ?
Nowhere is the main thrust stated that a GM must let players use the 50 as their characters, that is but one of the many options open;
There is a large suggestion area on ways to use the 50 as NPCs or local assistant heroes, or even villains, such as a "civil war" option.
I'm not sure about your broken constructs sentence.
>>>>Some of the concepts weren't entirely comprehensible, as Oddhat also mentioned. In fact, most of these people shouldn't even be on the same team.
Concepts? well that's a subjective opinion. Some people like Batman, some people like Deadman.
Again, I am not familiar with the writings of Oddhat. Not on the same team? what like Hulk and Wasp in Avengers? or like Green Arrow and Plastic in JLA ?
Was the "same team" remark a moral, tactical, or taste-oriented comment?
Also on the concept thing, few of these characters can be expressed simply, as in "a speedster based on ice powers"
Again, there are just as many villains in the books.
>>>> Threats that would challenge Captain California would massacre half the other heroes there. They don't have powers that shore up each other's weaknesses,
How about this: Threats that would challenge Superman or Thor would massacre Green Arrow or Hawkeye.
Having powers that shore up weaknesses to me seems like either subjective opinion or an opportunity for creative tactics.
>>>>they don't work well together as a team, and the concept to me seems like it needs to be rethought, rebooted, and republished before it gets out of the box.
So you've played a lot of Champions, and also played the USA-50, and that's how you made this conclusion ?
I agree with you on the need for polishing, but the rest of your statement seems painted on with a big broad brush, actually maybe more like a roller.
>>>>Sorry, guys, but this one just did not do it for me.
Again, some people read the Avengers, others read BPRD. Both books work.
I said at the beginning saying It has Teh Sukk isnt a valid criticism, since some people may like what we hate, and vice versa.
The USA50 is what you make of it. The author will not at all be offended if you steal parts you do like,
file off the serial numbers, and use bits of it in your campaign. I notice you didnt mention the villains at all.
One of the first things acknowledged in the book is the "given" that a Big Book of All Heroes is well nigh useless in the typical Champions game, since the player characters are the usual heroes,
and so neither the players nor the GM needs 50 more. This is covered in the book, and so other ways to view the material than "immediately integrate all of these new champions" are out there.
I accept the criticisms of your posting, but I must hope you read the connecting material, the villains or other parts beyond the mere statistics & powers.
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Her Luck power is written up in a way similar to the way DOJ does it: "Fortune Favored: Luck 2d6" (i.e. "Flavor Name of Power: Game Mechanics"). But many of the powers are written up without the flavor name.
And sometimes it's really necessary. She also has a power that is written up like this: "To 33' North, 44' West: Teleportation: Floating Fixed Location (1 Locations)." A little Google work reveals that 33 degrees north, 44 degrees west is the latitude/longitude of Roswell, NM, and it would probably be possible to guess that from the main text that follows the character sheet, but why should you have to?
Because you had the joy of discovery. You figured it out on your own. Plus, I want to write up powers like no one else.
I've had it up to here with power descriptions like "Energy Beam, then Extended Beam, then Powerful Beam" and "Low-Cost Beam" or worse yet "Quadrobenium Armor, Quadrobenium Teleport, Quadrobenium Beam, Quadrobenium Radar" I want my power descriptions to not be run of the mill if possible.
And the power seems to be written up wrong: if it is really always to 33 degrees north, 44 degrees west, then that is a fixed location (1 point), not a floating fixed location (5 points). And the teleportation power that this is written up as a fixed location for appears only in a sample VPP power. This may be legal under 6E, I honestly don't know, but it is certainly confusing.
She may teleport anywhere within Roswell New Mexico, and within 504 miles of there.. yes it could be clarified
And this floating fixed location is her **first listed power.** Furthermore, the teleportation power in the VPP is written up as teleportation 17m, x17 Non-Combat, 32 Active Points; by my understanding there is no way to have a x17 non-combat multiple; this should be written up as teleportation 17m, x16 non-combat, 32 active points. That would mean that she would be able to teleport 272 meters non-combat, but the VPP limitation states that she can use her VPP within 666 miles of Roswell, and her teleportation only within 504 miles from Roswell; this suggests that she should be able to teleport the 504 miles to Roswell, which she obviously can't. It's a legal writeup that only allows her to teleport within 504 miles from Roswell, but why can she use other powers further away? In short, it seems like the author's intent was not met here, but I can't really tell for sure what the author's intent was.
She can use teleport the normal tactical way in and around New Mexico, (the 504 radius) but she can always teleport BACK TO Roswell; even if kidnapped to Cuba.
And yes it does take a bit of tinkering to make it work in 5th edition..
Her "appearance" ....information is provided for Estrella in her "Origin-History" section ("She adopted a costume based on the loud yellow flag of her new home state") but not much. At least there's a picture. Some writeups have a "tactics" section; others don't, and Estrella is one of those that doesn't. In DOJ books the "tactics" section is usually a "powers and tactics" section that explain the basic nature o...Estrella really needs some editing. For example, the second paragraph, which is eight lines long, is one sentence with no punctuation and contains at least three typos.
No, no, no that's how Latino people type. . . . . Just kidding. Yes it could be better.
I will not buy another book in the USA-50 series without having a chance to review the product at my FLGS to be sure that there are significant improvements to the layout and editing.
I am not wealthy, and it takes a large cash layout to get a book to your shelves that way. The online way is the way for now until the economy turns around.
... found similar problems in other writeups. In addition, I just found the font of the book hard to read: it is very small. ...
My only defense for that is I am not allowed to let my book design look like a champions book's design in any way.
Plus I was instructed to keep all powers together, all skills together etc, where possible.
It was simply too hard to figure out how a particular character might fit into a setting.... because of the layout and formatting choices that were made
I have no idea what that criticism means. The other layout suggestions are valid, but the work is subject to constraints.
But to be brutally honest, there are a lot of character writeups out there to be had; if I'm going to think this hard about how a character is supposed to be used, I might as well write it up myself.
If you are serious, then take any of the upcoming characters, North and South, and re-write them in a way you find palatable. The website is public, and the future is not set in stone yet.
Do the layout and flavor text in a fashion that suits you. We can see what others think.
The USA50 was from the beginning a group project. But when it came down to actual work and money, very few people showed up. But the hope and invitation is still open.
Plus another thought: The USA50 is assumed to be like a comic book roster,
not a typical champions team book.
Note, there is little if any emotional content here.
None of this reply is argumentative, its just opinions.
Re: Character with one side of his body being human and the othe side being mutant the way my browser displayed this it seemed to read: Character with one side of his body being Human and the other side being 6th Edition