Lucius

Package Deals in 5ER Heck, for what it's worth, I'm not sure I'd do it either. We'll have to see what I do if I ever start running a game again. Of course you can drain/suppres his pistol, just as you could any other ranged Killing Attack with a focus, or without a focus for that matter. But his pistol isn't even part of the package deal, so I don't see what that has to do with it. If you think about it, Skill Enhancers like Scholar, and the Expert Skill Enhancer or whatever they call it from Dark Champions, work mechanically a lot more like an Elemental Control. I haven't heard anyone object to them, either. That's probably the way to go if I ever want to design another Package Deal. People keep bringing up the adjustment powers as if that were THE primary thing about an elemental control. No, the point is that if you can't think of a reasonable SFX for a drain that would effect all the powers, they aren't CLOSELY RELATED enough to justify being in an elemental control. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary peruses the periodic table for controllable elements....

Human Batteries Um, yeah. He said there were devices that the characters would find out could run on energy from the characters, and some of them could "store" that energy and run off it. In other words, such devices are foci, and have an End Reserve. If you pick up a focus and use it, it's now "your" power. I don't need Usable By Others on STR to use my STR to swing a sword, or on DEX to use my DEX to aim a gun. If I have an END Reserve type REC, I don't need Usable on Others to use it to fill "my" END Reserve, even if the END Reserve is in a focus and the REC isn't. That said; Transfer sounds good, except that Adjustment powers have that danged max effect cap; also that the points eventually go back to the way they were. I'd say buy REC with a limit that it only "moves points around" at a set rate: i.e. you can REC your personal (non-focus) END reserve (if the Divunids will have one) but only if you have a device handy, which loses the same number of END you gain; or you can do it the other way around, the device gains END and you lose it. REC with a limitation would work like the Transfer, but without the rather odd effects of points going back to where they were nor of having an arbitrary limit to the amount of energy transferred. Your only limits would be the actual limits of the END Reserves involved. It sounds like the only REAL "RECovery" in the game, i.e. the only source of truly "new" END to replace what gets expended, would be a generator or the like, something "creating" electrical energy. I imagine gasoline generators, solar cells, even hand cranked generators, would be very valuable in the game. Lucius Alexander Taking a palindromedary through the aye of the needless

Package Deals in 5ER From page 203 FREd: "Elemental Controls provide a cost savings ... in exchange for 1) buying related powers which fit his conception well and 2) accepting certain restrictions on those powers." The only restriction (other than on the KIND of powers that may be used) seems to be the one about Adjustment powers - if any power in the Elemental Control loses points, they ALL do, and at effectively double the normal rate. Unless I am much mistaken, this was not the case in the first edition of Champions, and is something that was added to the Elemental Control rules later. In other words, it is not basic to the idea of the Elemental Control. The "related powers which fit his conception well" is the heart of the idea; the Adjustment rule is just a logical outgrowth of that. In other words, comparing the point break of an Elemental Control with that of a Package Deal Bonus isn't comparing "apples and oranges." It's comparing two things that are fundamentally identical. Mind you, I'm not saying either is a Good Idea. I'm saying that you can't call one a Good Idea and the other a Bad Idea, because it's the Same Idea. To argue otherwise is to be logically inconsistent. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary points out that people often are logically inconsistent, but that's Lucius' Psych Lim again; he's compelled to point out logical iconsistency no matter how futile it is.

Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH

Human Batteries If it's an END reserve that's part of a focus, and you have the focus, it **IS** "your own" END reserve. That's why I backpedaled about requiring "Usable on Others." Another option is to give the device a REC score, with the limitation "Must be connected to a power source" and then define the Divunid as an applicable power source. Mind you, the limitation will be very small!! The book gives -2 but in this game a Divunid will be a lot more common than a wall socket or automobile battery is in a normal game. Maybe a mere -1/4 Lucius Alexander Limitation: Requires Palindromedary Riding Skill Roll

Liking your Lunch Take your pick Acting High Society/Courtier (see description in FRED, it mentions this specifically) Trading (at a penalty, and assuming it's part of doing business.) PS: Diplomat KS: Specific Culture CON and or EGO rolls Sleight of Hand, if you want to appear to eat but actually pass it to the, uh, dog, or whatever that thing under the table is..... Modified by appropriate psychological and physical limitations. Psych Lim: Adventurous, +3 to such rolls. Phys Lim: No Taste or Smell, +5 to such rolls. etc. Lucius Alexander Feed it to the palindromedary!

Is this android "FREdily Correct"? I think the Rules As Written create a certain confusion about Automatons. An Automaton is not defined as something that Takes No STUN. That and the other Automaton powers are neither necessary nor sufficient to define something as an Automaton. Consider my fembot example above. It has none of the special automaton powers, but it is an automaton. It has no EGO, and therefore no free will; immune to mental powers and things like presence attacks (although if it makes the Acting skill roll, it will make you THINK it's reacting to a presence attack.) INT 20 enables it to follow up to 4 programmed instructions, which can be quite complex; it bleeds, it takes STUN damage, but in a very real sense it's an inanimate object like a vehicle. It has 5 pts of INT devoted to a self preservation program, so it always remembers to, for example, feed and water itself, but if you somehow "erased" that and left it sitting around, it would eventually die of neglect. Contrariwise, it is possible to give the Automaton Special Powers to a character that is NOT an Automaton. It is ILLEGAL to do so, in that the rules specifically forbid it (Something that shocked me - in that many things have warning labels in Hero, stating "this can be hazardous to your game balance" but few things are flatly forbidden) but if you leave EGO intact and give a character the Takes No STUN power, you do NOT have an Automaton - you have an "illegal" character, but what you have has free will, would probably pass a Turing test, is subject to mental powers (because it's not mindless) and can be played as a player character, assuming the Game Operations Director is prepared to deal with the implications of a character totally immune to one of the two major effects of taking physical damage. A less unbalancing option would be to let a character with a high degree of control of his own body (Super Yoga perhaps) take Does Not Bleed with Requires Skill Roll (Contortionist or Simulate Death roll perhaps) or maybe Costs END. There was something like this is Justice INC or Danger International, I think. Remember, "robot" does not equal "automaton." I think C3P0 and R2D2 have EGOs, and are not automatons. Whether or not this means it has a "soul" is best left up to the G.O.D. although I personally approve the answer Humphrey gave in Piers Anthony's novel A Spell for Chameleon. Also, I'm not sure robots should always take Takes No Stun. It seems to me robots and other sorts of automatons can be temporarily "short circuited" (stunned) or become temporarily inoperative without being destroyed (unconscious.) I think even I fell prey to this sort of confusion recently, in the thread Stunning News for Robots. Taking away the Takes No Stun power (if it could be done) wouldn't make an automaton free-willed - it just means it's now vulnerable to STUN damage. Similarly, the wizard called Vivimancer has Takes No STUN, Usable on Others as part of an Invulnerability spell he casts on his loyal followers, but that does not make them automatons. If you make an Oratory or Persuasion roll at -10 you might make them disobey, or at least stop and think about it. If he bought it Usable as Attack and used it on you, it wouldn't destroy your Ego or turn you into a mindless minion. It would only make it harder for him to stop you, which is why he DOESN'T use it except on people he trusts. Even if he deploys the foul Curse of Lucinda and drains your EGO to zero, you're not a mindless automaton - you still HAVE an EGO, it's just at 0 or negative. You know what you want, and can still struggle to do what you want. At -30 EGO you become very automaton-like, but are still subject to mental powers (are you ever!) Not to mention that you eventually get your EGO points back. No, if he wants to actually turn people into automatons he needs a Major Transform like the one that turns a woman into a fembot. I'm not going to teach him how, either, and if he pesters me again when his minions dig him out of what's left of his tower, I'll just put a long-term Suppress on his Life Support next time I bury him in rubble. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary reveals that the Magician Humphrey answered a manticore who asked "Do I have a soul?" by saying "Only those who have souls, are concerned about them."

Package Deals in 5ER Well, you went from making to perfect sense to not making any sense. I'm still trying to make sense of it. If you bought a bunch of powers through a focus, and the focus is taken away, you lose the powers, regardless of whether they were bought as elemental control or not. An elemental control and a multipower are two completely different things. An elemental control and a package deal are not two completely different things. In fact, in concept, they are pretty much identical things. They differ more in how the concept was executed. It's not comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing apples to crabapples. If you "understand the basis behind getting a point break with ECs" than I think you understand the basis behind getting a point break on a package deal. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary smiles at both ends.

Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Now, why in the name of Steve Long would it be female only? Baloney. If a female can control her own fertility, a male can control his own as well. I don't believe anything is this game system is that gender-specific. So this is in Ultimate Metamorph? Basically an extension of the Life Support powers? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary has a Y? chromosome and a Y-not? chromosome

This equipment will self-destruct... I think a 3d6/segment Susceptibility, does BODy, will kill the agent before the characters realize he's dying, let alone can do anything about it. I once built a robot with a "Manufacturer's Recall" power. If anyone tried to disassemble it or hack the operating system or otherwise tamper, it triggered a heavily limited Teleport back to the inventor's hidden lab, with an 8 or less activation, and a huge Killing Attack side effects - if the teleport failed (as it probably would) then only PART of the robot teleported... Lucius Alexander Palindromedary Enterprises

Re: Is this android "anatomically correct"? Who's not thinking about fembots? Are we talking "anatomically correct" or "fully functional?" The following writeup is anatomically correct but politically incorrect. And may be incorrect in other ways depending on how it formats.... Character: Fembot Model 2803 Characteristics Value Char Points 15 STR 5 13 DEX 9 13 CON 6 8 BOD -4 20 INT 10 - EGO 0 18 PRE 8 20 COM 5 4 PD 1 4 ED 1 3 SPD 6 8 REC 4 20 END -3 23 STUN 0 5†Run -2 Total-> 46 Skills Skill Cost Roll Scholar “I learn quickly†3 Jill of All Trades “I learn quickly†3 Acrobatics “I am skilled and graceful†3 12 Acting “I can be anything you want me to be†3 13 Disguise “I am clever with makeup and costumes†1 8 Mimicry “I can be anything you want me to be†1 8 Contortionist “I can hold any position you choose†3 12 Conversation “You are so fascinating, please tell me more!†3 13 Seduction 3 13 KS: Carnal Knowledge (intellect) 2 13 PS: Dancer (agility) 2 12 PS: Singer (interaction) 2 13 PS: Concubine(interaction) 2 13 PS: Massage (intellect) 2 13 PS: Cook (intellect) 2 13 PS: Maid (intellect) 2 13 KS: Owner (intellect) 2 13 1 Language 3 Literacy 1 + 1 Overall Level 10 Read Master AKA Analyze Desires: An Analyze skill for “sizing up†a man’s preferences (general, long-term desires) and moods (what he feels like right now) 3 13 Cramming X2 “I learn quickly†10 Insert Row Total Points for Skills: 66 Talents, Powers, etc. Talent /Power Description Cost End/Roll Double Jointed 4 “I move gracefully and beautifully in chains†Environmental movement, +3 vs. penalties for being bound 4 “I have high pain tolerance†Damage Resistance (3) Can’t stop first 1 Pt of BOD of a killing attack (- ½) 2 “I come when called†+1†Run (2) Only if called (-1) 1 “I hear and obey†+2 Hearing perception 2 “I follow instructions†Eidetic Memory (5) Only to recall orders (-1) 2 “I am a tireless worker†Sleep 8 hrs/week (about 1 hr out of 24) 1 Holding Breath Extended Breathing 1 1/Turn Metabolic Control Simulate Death 3 =<9 Musically Inclined Perfect Pitch 3 Total 28 Customization: 15 points unspent Disads Disadvantage Rolls Points Distinctive Features: Beautiful, seductive. Concealable 10 Distinctive Features: Serial Number. Easily concealed, major reaction 10 Social Limitation: Fembot 20 Watched by Master <=14 20 “I exist to serve†Dependence on Master / Programmed self-destruction. For each day forcibly separated from Master and/or prevented from actively rendering service, fembot takes 3d6 damage, and suffers incompetence and weakness as per Dependence. 15 Fembot Model 2803 is built on 75 points plus 75 points of disadvantages, suitable for a standard heroic game. 15 points are left unspent for optional customization and/or skills not yet learned. Available for sale (150 pt follower for 30 pts) or lease (Summon 150 pt Fembot 30 pts, (+1 advantage for slavishly devoted 60 pts,) delivery to reasonable locations only (-1/2 limit “must inhabit localeâ€) allow 4 to 6 weeks for delivery (-5 limit extra time) Check out our special rates for matched sets and harems with Teamwork skill! (each 5 pts doubles the number for either Follower or Summon) Lucius Alexander Only from Palindromedary Enterprises

Package Deals in 5ER

If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back? I started with the old gray book Champions first edition. I remember when I was in college and Champions II and then III came out. I think it was Champions II that really hooked me. That introduced the "Gadget Pool" the ancestor of the Variable Power Pool. I saw that and said "Finally, a system that can do justice to magick!" But I stay with Hero for all the virtues that have already been enumerated. Why repeat what everyone else has already said? Lucius Alexander (-: :-)

Combo too much? I got a better idea. Give all martial artists half damage reduction, only vs martial arts. Give all supernatural whatchits half damage reduction, only vs supernatural. Cut the BOD of most people and things by one or two. Some object that takes 7 BOD to break, say it takes 5 instead. Average person has 7 BOD, not 8 or even 10. Strictly limit the defenses you can buy unless you take the limitation "only vs. your own schtick." Then martial artists are still fairly vulnerable to superwhatevers, and vice versa. You don't have to make things too complicated...this system is ALREADY complicated.... Lucius Alexander Insert palindromedary

Is it time for people to stop making new RPG systems? I don't think it's a stupid idea. I don't really agree with it either. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary is ruminating on it.

Re: Human Batteries Not QUITE. Look up the power END Reserve. It's the RECovery for that power I was thinking of putting an advantage on....although 1) The distinction between END Reserve and personal END, and between the two kinds of REC, may be purely academic in your game, and 2) it may not need an advantage at all. Just give the devices an END Reserve with limitation: Focus (part of the device) and give the character a REC that does NOT have Focus (innate to the character, he can RECover END for any device.) I don't know if that would be "book legal" or not - but if it works for you, I think it's probably plenty good enough. Lucius Alexander Inevitable palindromedary

Human Batteries Sounds interesting; please explain more about the setting. Make sure to give Running, Swimming, and STR the advantage Zero END if you don't want physical activity to drain the character's "batteries." The classic way to build a battery is with END Reserve, which recovers with its own RECovery trait. You can have the characters buy REC, Usable on Others (possibly it has to be Usable as Attack to effect the inanimate, I'm not sure) and if you want to make it a 1 for 1 ratio, make the REC cost END, increased END cost until each point of REC costs 1 END to use. Lucius Alexander Yes, the palindromedary observes, he's having insomnia again.

Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Okay, so it costs 5 pts for a character to be sterile? Or is that for having control of the process - being able to plan parenthood? Lucius Alexander That's NOT in the FREd the palindromedary and I are familiar with....

Okay, first I'm going to to explain how I can be so ignorant. I have to confess, the last Hero products I bought were FREd, and Ultimate Martial Artist, right when they came out and DOJ had bought Hero Games and had effected the Ressurrection and all was good. Then the Gods decided it was a good idea to pick up my life, shake it vigorously, toss it around, and finally leave it upside down in a corner, half shatterred. As I recall I did manage to hang on here for a while (with borrowed internet access) but finally that came to an end too, and I only came back to the boards within the last few months. I found this forum called "Dark Champions" and from casually perusing it came to the conclusion that what that means is, people who want to play Champions but don't necessarily want their characters and games to qualify for the Comics Code Authority seal of approval. Who don't want all the often silly and definitely "goody goody" genre conventions I associate with comic books. People like that guy (I forget his name) who said on these boards a few years ago "I don't run games about superheroes. I run games about people who have superpowers and what they do with them." I also ran across a lot of references to "street level superheroes" and figured that also tied into what Dark Champions is about - heroes making a difference in a local community, not being "world savers." Assuming I'm interpreting the phrase "street level" correctly. But I've run into a few comments that don't quite fit. Like saying postapocolyptic giant robots are Dark Champions. And that the Scooby Doo gang would fit in Dark Champions. Say what? So I'm going to go ahead and ask the direct, stupid question; What exactly DOES "Dark Champions" mean?? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary is just smirking at me.

Invisible World Haiku Hero Thread drift so extreme! Invisible faeries to Foaming soda cans Thread drift so extreme Might as well go all the way Make it a haiku Lucius Alexander I'll take these haiku And palindromedary To the haiku thread

Re: The Invisible World Thread drift so extreme! Invisible faeries to Foaming soda cans Thread drift so extreme Might as well go all the way Make it a haiku Lucius Alexander I'll take these haiku And palindromedary To the haiku thread

Re: Natural Disaster Resources Try http://www.fema.gov Lucius Alexander The palindromedary advises Lucius that that's probably not the kind of natural disaster resources that were meant....

So, what is the distinction between "Base Points" and "Unmodified Active Points?" Lucius Alexander The palindromedary smells haiku...or something.

Re: Need a really good Marshal Artist Build Do you want a marshall who is an artist, or an artist who specializes in portraits of marshalls? LA p

WWYCD: They Walk Through Walls? Hey, the knife got cut. Just as well, he wasn't paying attention, or he'd have noticed everyone who was in the banks is listed dead or catatonic. Lucius Alexander Insert palindromedary tagline.