Ranxerox

If the characters are interesting and feel fresh, that is a good indicator that they are not creatively empty.  Writers and artist are putting thought and effort into crafting these legacy characters.  The fact that they are legacy characters is because the major comic book companies are risk adverse, and because legacy characters tend to sell better than other new characters.  There have been plenty of new, non-legacy characters that have come out in the last 20 years and most people can't name even one of them.
 
Being risk adverse and wanting to sell as many issues as possible is not the same as being lazy and creatively empty.  Different adjectives are required.

People love Jaime Reyes and Miles Morales, and Ryan Choi is not just my favorite Atom but one of my favorite characters period.  All of these characters IMHO are fresh and interesting.  So obviously our mileage varies.

I got my second shot today. YAY
 
My state may have it's vaccines moved to another state because not enough people are showing up to take their shots
 
BOO

No, you weren't reading closely enough.  We are going to become "double mutants".  So everyone is going to get to make two rolls on the Gamma World mutation chart!

If the characters are interesting and feel fresh, that is a good indicator that they are not creatively empty.  Writers and artist are putting thought and effort into crafting these legacy characters.  The fact that they are legacy characters is because the major comic book companies are risk adverse, and because legacy characters tend to sell better than other new characters.  There have been plenty of new, non-legacy characters that have come out in the last 20 years and most people can't name even one of them.
 
Being risk adverse and wanting to sell as many issues as possible is not the same as being lazy and creatively empty.  Different adjectives are required.

People love Jaime Reyes and Miles Morales, and Ryan Choi is not just my favorite Atom but one of my favorite characters period.  All of these characters IMHO are fresh and interesting.  So obviously our mileage varies.

Olympia Dukakis, Oscar Winner for 'Moonstruck,' Dies at 89

Had my second shot(Pfizer) on Wednesday afternoon and didn't have any side effects until late that night. Then I got the chills and fever that usually come along with a cold. Was pretty wiped until Thursday night and it began to clear up. Fine this morning so I'm ready to face the world(with mask on).

Anti-vax fundies were protesting the venue where I got my shot this morning.
 
I may exercised my 1st amendment rights -- and my middle finger. 😇

I'm getting my 2nd shot in a couple hours.
 

Since Ray Fisher came out with his complaints, numerous other people have come forward to say that Josh Whedon is an abusive ***hole.  People always putting up with "crappy situations with as much grace as possible" is a good way to ensure that crappy situations never get any better.  As Whedon's choice of victims has  shown, crappy situations have a way being even crappier for women and minorities.  So, while keeping his head down and not complaining might have been the smart thing to do for his own career, he wouldn't have been doing black actors that follow him any favors.
 
IMHO, Ray Fisher handled the whole thing with grace and dignity.  Having seen Zack Snyder's cut, Ray Fisher has talent that wasn't on display in the theatrical release.  He has a strong voice and screen presence.  I am confident that has a great career ahead of him, though that may play out on stage and indie productions instead of in big studio blockbusters. 

Since Ray Fisher came out with his complaints, numerous other people have come forward to say that Josh Whedon is an abusive ***hole.  People always putting up with "crappy situations with as much grace as possible" is a good way to ensure that crappy situations never get any better.  As Whedon's choice of victims has  shown, crappy situations have a way being even crappier for women and minorities.  So, while keeping his head down and not complaining might have been the smart thing to do for his own career, he wouldn't have been doing black actors that follow him any favors.
 
IMHO, Ray Fisher handled the whole thing with grace and dignity.  Having seen Zack Snyder's cut, Ray Fisher has talent that wasn't on display in the theatrical release.  He has a strong voice and screen presence.  I am confident that has a great career ahead of him, though that may play out on stage and indie productions instead of in big studio blockbusters. 

If you haven't already, you might want to check out the Casually Comics channel on Youtube.

Oh, yes.  You just came across it.  Minding your own business, searching for home repair videos, and there is was.  Absolutely. 😇

I can Telepathically talk to fish! They just ignore me....Jerks!

I'm glad I wasn't planning serious yard work, I will say.  Notable soreness now, at 5+ hours post-shot, at the injection site.  I can live with that.
 
To celebrate...fresh chicken and garlic pasta, which I usually avoid like the plague due to carbs...gonna be tossing the rump roast into the pressure cooker for shredding, and serve a nice dollop on the side, and a salad.  And a bottle of wine.   Mmmm....

"My body is a temple: ancient, crumbling, probably cursed."

Slight change in plans - originally was scheduled in a location about 2 hours from me, but got a call from our local hospital saying that they can get me in on Friday...for the J&J vaccine.  That'll get me fully vaccinated about a week ahead of my wife, so I've got that going for me...which is nice.

Got my first dose of Pfizer tomorrow; my wife's is next Monday, while my son's is the following Thursday!

I think that they could have gotten down to 3 and half hours like Titanic.  Ditch the Martian Manhunter scenes which while cool Easter eggs didn't add much to the movie at hand, and Knightmare, which since we already know Darkseid is on his way is not really necessary.
 
At 3½ IMO Zack Snyder's JL would have been positively enough received to have saved the franchise.  The question is would that have been a good thing.  There is something to be said for all the DC movies existing in a common multiverse, but not necessarily the same universe.  Personally, I don't want to see Captain Marvel's body crucified next to the gate to Darkseid's fortress.  BOP Harley Quinn does not need to be the same one as the Suicide Squad movies even though they are played by the same actress.  
 
Yes, having seen Snyder's JL, I would kind of like to see it's sequel.  However, in the name of prying the DCCU away from his grimdark view of reality, I think I might be willing to forego the experience 

I think that they could have gotten down to 3 and half hours like Titanic.  Ditch the Martian Manhunter scenes which while cool Easter eggs didn't add much to the movie at hand, and Knightmare, which since we already know Darkseid is on his way is not really necessary.
 
At 3½ IMO Zack Snyder's JL would have been positively enough received to have saved the franchise.  The question is would that have been a good thing.  There is something to be said for all the DC movies existing in a common multiverse, but not necessarily the same universe.  Personally, I don't want to see Captain Marvel's body crucified next to the gate to Darkseid's fortress.  BOP Harley Quinn does not need to be the same one as the Suicide Squad movies even though they are played by the same actress.  
 
Yes, having seen Snyder's JL, I would kind of like to see it's sequel.  However, in the name of prying the DCCU away from his grimdark view of reality, I think I might be willing to forego the experience 

I think that they could have gotten down to 3 and half hours like Titanic.  Ditch the Martian Manhunter scenes which while cool Easter eggs didn't add much to the movie at hand, and Knightmare, which since we already know Darkseid is on his way is not really necessary.
 
At 3½ IMO Zack Snyder's JL would have been positively enough received to have saved the franchise.  The question is would that have been a good thing.  There is something to be said for all the DC movies existing in a common multiverse, but not necessarily the same universe.  Personally, I don't want to see Captain Marvel's body crucified next to the gate to Darkseid's fortress.  BOP Harley Quinn does not need to be the same one as the Suicide Squad movies even though they are played by the same actress.  
 
Yes, having seen Snyder's JL, I would kind of like to see it's sequel.  However, in the name of prying the DCCU away from his grimdark view of reality, I think I might be willing to forego the experience 

Why is that a problem? Justice League 1 does not have to be the equivalent of Avengers 1 and the end result (only talking about the Snyder Cut here) is nowhere near on par. I am comparing it to IW because it is much closer in theme but to be fair, JL is not IW. It's not the same movie andf it shouldn't be.
 
There is a lot of built up in the first part of JL. Establishing the backstory of the Mother Boxes, Lois and Martha grieving Clark, the origin story of Cyborg and his relationship with his father. All of this makes the event of the stories more powerful as they unfold. Superman ressurection becomes a gambit because the team feels they will need him to prevail but turning the mother box on to do so will make it trackable to Steppenwolf, let alone connecting with the MB gives a glimpse of the Knightmare which make the whole thing look like a bad idea. Silas rescue and sacrifice is meaningful because of the conection with Victor and because it leads the group to track Steppenwolf, and so on. 
 
Could it have been shorter? Of course. Could it have been edited down to 2 hours without loosing a lot of the essence. I doubt it. Thankfully, the movie is broken up in parts so it's easy to stop. I might have it a bit mixed up and I would need to rewatch it to see if it is as clean cut but in short:
 
- Introduction: Reliving the Death of Superman
- Part 1: Introducing Aquaman
- Part 2: The Mother Boxes backstory
- Part 3: Cyborg Origin and introducing the Flash, first showdown against Steppenwolf
- Part 4 and 5 (it's getting blurry in my memory): The team understands what the Mother Boxes do, Superman is ressurected, they lose the last Mother Box
- Part 6: Final showdown in Russia (no Russian family involved) and the stare down with Darseid
- Epilogue: Knightmare, Luthor, Deathstroke, Martian Manhunter and wrap up
 
This is where the analogies fall apart. Steppenwolf is not Loki nor is he Ultron. He actually feels more like Thanos but is clearly not Thanos. Darkseid is also not Thanos. We see him in the movie but he is the evil looming, waiting in the background. He is actually not that interested in what's happening on Earth until it is reveal that the secret to the Anti-Life Equation is on Earth.
JL feels a lot more like Infinity War but is also very different. It does not reast on the background developped over dozens of movies. It needs to do a lot of it in the first half. It does not have a cast of thousands like IW so the story is a lot more focused on a single story. It ends with a victory but with the sense that the worst is to come. Baring a miracle there won't be a sequel.
 
It is now clear that what limited Whedon, was not what Snyder had done.
I unfortunately have no insight on what plans there were at the studio level and how it would have been managed.
 
I don't see why. Justice League is Justice League, not Avengers 1, 2, 3 or 4. We can draw parallels and compare because it's often how we analyse but in the end, JL did not have to be any of those movies. It just had to be Justice League. Josstice League really did not succeed at it.
I was trying to limit myself to the movie made but if we want to go down a bit further into Elsewolrds territory, a Wonder Woman and an Aquaman movie in between BvS and JL would have made a lot of sense. Both establishing the characters (and others as you suggest) and the Mother Boxes in their respective areas.