input.jack

Re: Pseudo-Victorian Cavalry Regiment Dauntless, ever hear of "The Charge of the Light Brigade"?

Re: Person of Steel, Significant Other of Tissue paper Am I just horribly naive? I watch "Smallville" and I dont see -any- of the stuff you guys are talking about. Clark and Lex are just friends, man. And Lana is hard to like not because shes "in the way", but because no matter how many times its proven to her, again and again, that Clark just has her best interests at heart and is her friend, the next time something happens that she doesnt like she immediately reacts by cutting off her friendship with Clark. Shes not an impediment to a Clark/Lex relationship....shes just a b*tch.

Re: newbie - thinkin of getting these rules Im amazed nobodys recommended "Fantasy Hero". I had the older version, and when I got a look at the new, 5th edition version I -had- to get it. That book is a -treasure trove- of great advice and idea starters for setting up and running a fantasy game. If youre going to run a Narnia based campaign, I cant recommend Fantasy Hero strongly enough

Re: Person of Steel, Significant Other of Tissue paper Id been assuming that the "Saiyans would like totally kill Superman" posts were supposed to be humor. Its like the old arguements over who was stronger, Superman or Mighty Mouse. Theyre from totally incompatible genres! Who cares??

Re: The Great Finality The campaign Im running has the living Avatar of Anubis running around as a superhero. (Kind of like how a God of Thunder runs around in a big-name comic companys campaign). So its -possible- that she might be able to bring a character back from the dead....but youd have to be pretty darned convincing to be able to persuade her to do so because shes all about the natural order of things. My campaigns have a sort of "you get what you pray for" kind of philosophy. A persons afterlife resembles what their mythology says it will be, although souls eventually reincarnate regardless of their destination. But time spent in the afterlife does not pass at the same rate it does on Earth, so a damned soul could be in Hell for 10,000 years subjectively, and then reincarnate in the mortal world only a century after the original person died. (Reincarnation has come up twice in the campaign already). The characters have fought Demons, the Fallen, and Incarnated fears, and stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Angels, Avatars, and even Gods themselves. The Higher Powers are limited in how they can interact with the mortal world, so they empower their trusted disciples who are able to act more freely.

Re: Alternate Marverlverses Charlene Tilton is Dazzler.

Re: Person of Steel, Significant Other of Tissue paper I hated the article. I -liked- Ellisons work on Babylon 5

Re: Person of Steel, Significant Other of Tissue paper That was Larry Niven? Huh...My bad. Sorry, Harlan

Re: Brick v. Powered Armor Hypothetical Well, first Id try having a tech-minded hero try to open the armor, rather than rip it off. As a Ref, if I were running the game and the Brick said he wanted to tear the armor apart, Id see if he was strong enough to damage it against half its normal defense. Why half defense, you ask? Well...it just seems about right for when the Brick is rending and twisting and pulling it in directions you couldnt in a normal combat, when the operater was aware. All in all, though, it -should- come off with a little work. Otherwise, why is it bought as an Inaccessable focus? Those are -supposed- to be removable in non-combat down time. Just my 2 cents

Re: Person of Steel, Significant Other of Tissue paper For those who wonder, Harlan Ellison wrote the original article "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" to demonstrate how stupid those semi-illiterate comic book readers are for enjoying all that mindless, inane driven. You know. Us. I rate it down in the sludge along with Phillip Jose Farmer's attempts to malign Tarzan by writing stories of him engaging in cannibalism and getting it on with female great apes as a teenager. Some people cant be happy unless theyre tearing someone else's idols down.

Re: Person of Steel, Significant Other of Tissue paper Interpersonal relationships of all kinds are important to the campaigns Im playing in. (Friendships, rivalries, and of course, as Hermit put it so eloquently, the "bom chika wow wow" factor). While we dont "play through" the more *ahem* intimate encounters at the table, we -do- generally try to keep in mind the consequences of peoples actions and abilities. That being said, we generally assume that, unless a character has Disads to reflect it, there really isnt that much of a problem. For example, in the case of Rogue, theres plenty of evidence to support the idea that the "player" really -wants- there to be difficulties; the character cant touch anyone skin-to-skin without knocking them out and stealing their powers and memories. Its caused demonstrable angst for her in the comics. For Superman, however, theres no reason to assume that there should be a problem. He has demonstrated repeatedly that he can exercise incredibly fine control over his strength (and other powers) for voluntary functions, so there shouldnt be a problem there. And as for involuntary functions, well, while he -can- apparently do everything super-fast or super-strong, it seems to take an act of will for him to do so. If he doesnt -want- to, I wouldnt think hed -have- to. And as Flash said in the animated JLU after returning from a bathroom break, "Hey, there are -some- things even I cant do at super-speed".

Re: Deliberatly Abusive Character concepts A friend of mine has a concept he refers to as "Atrocity Lad". He never -actually- names the character this, but thats how he refers to the archetype. Hes built as a fairly innocuous looking flying speedster. High SPD, high DEX, and LOTS of flight. ...LOTS of flight. Plus, he has the following little goodies hidden in his build. "Personal Immunity" bought on his Strength. Seems OK; hes a kinetic manipulator, so he just channels the kinetic energy from his strikes in harmless ways thru his body. "Personal Immunity" on his Flight. Same rationalization; if he impacts a building or something in mid-air, he doesnt take damage because he instinctively channels the kinetic energy of the blow. 1/2 Damage Reduction, and a fairly low PD. Its easier for him to channel kinetic energy he creates than it is incoming damage. Makes him seem fairly well defended in combat, not overly tough, and therefore playable. Finally, he has LOTS of Levels with All Movement, built in as a slot in his EC. Hes naturally quick and agile, so he can turn on a dime, and things like that. Now, for 99% of the game, Atrocity Lad seems like a perfectly ordinary flying speedster. No problems. He can get Stunned, or KO'ed, and so on. So wheres the abuse? My friend was running this character in a campaign where the Ref was...kind of heavy handed with his NPC's. He had a particular villain who was WAY off-scale, and liked to abuse characters (raped a female PC, things like that). Atrocity Lad flew in, got a clear line on the guy... And killed instantly him with a 100+ die NON COMBAT MOVE THROUGH. In one blow. All those velocity dice from his 40+' of Flight. His 10 All Movement levels gave him a 10 OCV for the attack; his base was 0, but the Levels applied. Personal Immunity to STR and Flight meant that even though the villain was vaporized, Atrocity Lad took NO damage from the Move Through. The Ref was flabbergasted, the villain was disintegrated, the group haied my friend as the conquoring hero... and the game crashed as a result of the Ref's pet bad guy taking a dirt-nap. Sneaky, well-justified, and effective. I was impressed!

Re: Lethality in Star Wars I was in a long-running Star Wars game run in HERO, and the solution to your problem is simple: Give the PC's alot of points to build with, relative to the Unnamed Hordes. Also, allow them to buy several Levels. In the game I was in, most of the PC's had Dexes that were about 3-8 points higher than the Stormtroopers (in this case, Stormtroopers had a Dex of 12-13, and PC's had 15-21 Dexes). The actual numbers dont matter, so long as the 'Troopers are competent compared to Dex 8-10 Normals, but still a couple of CV points shy of the PC's. The Troopers in this game had one All Combat Level and one with their preferred weapon. PC's tended to have one or two Overall Skill Levels, and one or two more levels applicable to combat as well. It meant that we wanted to take cover (Trooper blasters were doing 2d6K with a +1 Stun Multiplier, I believe), but the more bold and daring of us could afford to chance it out in the open if it was important. Levels and relative CV's are what make PC's stand out against Troopers, in a game like this. (Also, for reference, I think that Stormtrooper armor was bought as about 6 PD / ED armor). Hope that helps!

Re: grrrr I am offended by your having taken offence! ......(Does that many -any- sense?......It doesnt to me, either)

Re: Social or Psych Lim: which is it? So...is your perfectionist nature your own Psych lim? Or is it a Social Lim your Players have imposed on you?

Re: The Hand's Death For the insectoid minions of an extra-dimensional Overlord in my game, it wrote it as: Physical Limitation: Body dissolves into goo after having been taken to -20 or more STUN, or -10 or more BODY (Infrequent, totally impairing) I think its best to write this as a Disad, since otherwise youre making the poor schlubs pay points so that they can be disposable. Also, note that the way I wrote it, it affects them at -20 Stun. That way they are harder to capture for interrogation. (Their boss thinks of them as disposable, anyway).

Re: Appleseed Hero Resources Kewl

Re: The status of normals in the Superhero genre Okay. Probably the last post on this from me, as I seem to have become entrenched in a personal debate with one other poster. Those of you not wanting to get dragged into this, please skip ahead. Whamme Whamme, you said.. "Please note that you are being insulting, condescending, and acting as though your way of playing is the only possible valid way." about me. When, in fact, if you will go back and read what I DID say, youll see that (a) I have repeatedly stated that you are free to do as you wish in your games. ( This is my opinion, not law graven in stone. (I did not, for example, look at the scale you play on and say "Nonononononono!"....That was in fact what YOU said to ME). © I never said normal people -cant- exceed 20s. In fact, if you go back and look, Revenant, my example character who is based on Batman, has a 21 DEX and a 5 SPD. BOTH of which are across the doubling point. Plus, I mentioned that there -are- normal people who are stronger. Or faster. (d) If a "normal person" has a STR of 50, then "NCM" Disad or not, hes NOT a "Normal Human" anymore. "Built like a truck" just wont cut it as an explanation. And note that I said a "normal, unmodified Human". CHI Powers -are- superpowers. Id have expected the Chi-powered character to have been written so that their unmodified STR was something reasonable (or even moderately unreasonable), and the additional "Chi focus Strength" would be in, like, a multipower of Chi abilities, or an EC, or even just bought seperately. I wasnt assuming that Chi focus or magic were considered part of being a "normal, unmodified Human". (e) ALL of these arguements -do- apply to PRE, COM, INT, EGO, and the other base Stats. Ive been willing to let people with NCM cross the doubling point to as high as 30, but thats where I draw the line. For scale. In MY games. (Actually, we have a hard line at 20 for COM, just because you have to set a cap -somewhere- or it gets out of hand) (f) A Superhero -can- have the NCM disad. It -is- a debatable point. Thats what weve been doing. (g) My last sentence (If heroes cant be challenged by the world around them, what makes them so heroic?) isnt "cheap rhetoric". Its the summation of my point. Its the cornerstone of my philosophy regarding superheroes. Disregarding it out of hand, as you did, was as intentionally insulting to me on your part, as my "A good Ref" comment was apparently insulting to you. I did not MEAN to insult you. I apologize if I did so. I didnt think youd take the statement that way. Finally, what I meant by "I think Id do better in person than in a forum conversation" (paraphrase) was that, in a face to face conversation, its easier to maintain a consistent train of dialoguw. Its easier to convey context thru inflection. Its also alot faster. The gun idea hadnt occured to me...

Re: The status of normals in the Superhero genre *smiles* I never said the populace -became- weak, mewling creatures... Only that the Supers can start to see them that way C--, if you havent run into this in your experience, then Im glad to hear it. Because Ive seen it happen in several campaigns, and its never a good thing. Im glad youve been spared it. The point about heroes being heroic because theyre willing to sacrifice for the greater good is...of course...*ahem* dead on the money. Youre absolutely right. But Trebuchet's point about the supers losing their humanity, and losing touch -with- humanity, is the danger that Im talking about the characters facing. More importantly to me, though, is the loss of opportunity for roleplay and interaction with normals on an even footing. It sounds to me as thought Trebuchet and I have similar gaming styles and experiences. Our games, too, value -who- the character is more than what he can do, in the long run. In fact, for most of our games, it can be three or four sessions between combats, because the Players are all out doing RP stuff with NPC's, and each other. Our Players generally agree that the powers are neat...but -who- the character is, their personality and outlook, is whats ultimately important. My best friend has re-booted a character a couple of times (got the character going...game ended suddenly...new game opened up...viola! There she is again!). Im sure you know people who do this, from time to time. But what bears mentioning here is that, first time around, the character was a sort of "psychic temporal manipulator", effectively a speedster. Now shes a regenerating martial artist with enhanced senses (and technically alot less powerful). But my friend is -just- as happy with her in this game as in the previous one. In fact, a bit more so. Because the personality and overall "feel" of the character were always the most important thing. The power set was always secondary to the character concept, and could be "peeled off" and replaced with a new powerset as circumstances dictated, as far as the Player was concerned. Again, Im not saying that you "cant have that" with any other scale between normals and supers. Im just saying that its a darned sight easier to achieve when the gap between normals and supers isnt insurmountably large

Re: The status of normals in the Superhero genre Whamme Whamme, I think that you and I have very different ideas about whats "realistic". I think that we percieve the scale of whats possible very differently, and I dont see any way of changing your perceptions in as limited a forum as this. (Meaning posts on a board, as opposed to face to face dialogue). Yes, we originally came up with our scale back when 3rd Edition was out. That DOESNT mean we arent playing 5th Edition, as you implied. It just means that the scale for heroes, compared to normals, hasnt changed for us in that time. The scale of "most normal people average 8's, competent normal people average 10's" -also- hasnt changed, so the fact that our scale was changed "back when" does not, in any way, make it any less relevant. It also allows a noteworthy normal NPC with 13's or 15's to actually be USEFUL to the PC's. Trebuchet seems to understand what Im saying. The reason a good Ref wouldnt allow a PC into the campaign who was supposed to be a "normal human", and yet has a 50 STR, even after paying to exceed the doubling point, is because no matter what your take on the universe, no normal, unmodified Human could EVER lift 25 tons over his head. Ever. Our tissue strength and bone density isnt sufficient to ever allow that. That just defies physics, even for a cinematic reality. Scale isnt about whats affordable or what you can purchase "within the rules". Its about setting a reasonable yardstick for your game and sticking to it. A friend of mine dislikes being told hes made his character too strong or too fast for our games, but he does it alot. And often has to rewrite his charatcers before the characters are allowed into the game. He has tried putting a 25 STR on a five foot eight, lean build character, and didnt like it when I told him to try more like a 15, to make the character susprisingly strong. (The campaign in question had no superpowers in it. All characters were normal people). I finally got it across to him with this example. If you see two people walking down the street, and one of them is built like Woody Allen, and the other like Arnold Schwartzenegger, if you come to find that the one that looks like Woody Allen has 5 more STR than Arnie, then the world has completely lost its sense of scale. If you want to play in campaigns where a "normal Human superhero" has to bypass the Normal Characteristics Maximums disad in order to afford to be able to buy DEX and SPEED high enough to be competitive, thats your right as a Player. Im not saying you shouldnt or cant. But I AM saying that those campaigns miss out on some really good material by limiting the people who can be even moderately effective to those in costumes. In our campaigns, our Heroes are -just- as effective as those in mainstream comics. In fact, if I were to try to find a "feel equivalent" for our games Id say it was probably akin to the WB Animated series', like "Batman" or "Justice League". And -just- like in those series, there have been times when normal, unmodified Human NPC's have played a major role in the course of events. Cops have distracted a villian long enough for a PC to take that crucial Recovery (and then had to dive for cover as their squad car exploded from the plasma bolt). Enemy spies have fought dark vigilantes on warehouse rooftops. Heroes have called PAX (the local SHIELD equivalent) for fire support to keep the VIPER-like troops at bay while the heroes took on the supervillians they brought with them. Players have formed close bonds with the NPC's around them, because they see those NPC's as real people who have qualities to be admired. Heck, in a couple of cases, some of the PC's have invited experienced NPC s to join them! That sort of thing is -impossible- in a world where the "typical superhero" is written up with stats so far above what a "normal Human" can attain that the character would have to justify adding 10 to their DEX just to survive being with the PC's. In campaigns where the average DEX and SPEED are cranked up so far that normals are insignificant, the long-term result is that the Players, -along- with their characters, tend to eventually come to look down upon them. Even, in some cases, resent them. Because the world to them becomes populated by weak little mewling creatures who are incapable of taking care of themselves. If heroes cant be challenged by the world around them....what makes them so heroic?

Re: Two Game Master's One of my roommates and I took a different tack; We are co-reffing the same campaign world, but each Ref runs in a different city. He runs "New York", and I run "Los Angelos" (theyre called something else in the game, but thats not important here). Each of us plays in the other game, and its really helped to flesh out the world and add depth and detail. However, early on we had a discussion about the overall "vision" of the game; what kind of flavor and feel we wanted, and what would be available, or not. (For example, we wanted a generally optomistic campaign, but with real consequences for intentionally unheroic acts. Mutants, extra-terrestrials, sorcerers, and cyborgs are all viable character ideas. Travellers thru time, PC or NPC, are not. Period). To make all this work, one of us (me, as it turns out) had to be appointed "Ref Prime". If theres a judgement call to be made on the spot about some aspect of the game world that affects more than just New York, I have to make it. For example, whether or not it was illegal in the USA to intentionally try to alter your DNA to make yourself superhuman came up in conversation, and I had to make a call. (Its illegal). So far, this has worked out very well. The game is largely based on a campaign setting I ran a few years before, just with a different "cast" and a slight change in histories. So I created alot of the NPC's and organizations. Had we designed the world completely from scratch, it mgiht have been harder to pick a "Prime Ref". But it should be done, since you -need- to have a clear decision maker sometimes. I dont know if this will help you, but from reding what youve said, Id have to agree with the suggestion that you split the group into different game days. Or you take turns with who is running the story and who is crunching numbers. Unless one of you is -far- better than the other at storytelling, and the other is a far better mathemetician, I think that sticking you with a permanent role as one or the other will -soon- lead to Ref Burnout. Oh...and Reffing a superheroes game for 12 Players at once is like...suicide, in my opinion. Thats having to write up a -minimum- of about 6-10 individual supervillians. Every week. Yeesh!

Re: Player vs. Character Id say Tony was an idiot for not recharging then and there. Period. Unless the villians were about to go do something heinous. It al depends on the situation, to me.

Re: How long to make Master Mold? Okay, chiming in with my 2 cents... The primary characters involved in this project are superheroes, right? But theyre apparently -not- "tech-based heroes" (like Iron Man), or "gadgeteers" (like Batman). Nor are they "super scientists" (like Reed Richards). So...how far do you think this little project would get if they -werent- superheroes? If I read this correctly, the main "engineer" of the group is a guy with a "slightly above average intellect" (Im guessing a 13 INT), and little computer programming training. Assuming that the tech-base of the campaign isnt -too- different from the real world (and we have no reason to infer that it is), then Id say that their results should be based on how much time they spend on it....and who they hire to help them. Just like a normal persons results would be. Yeah....tin sheeting tacked to 2x4's, guarded by remote control toys taped to kitchen knives. That -does- sound about right. If they want to go to Wal-Mart and buy components to build robots, to build robots, to build their base...laugh at them. They got it coming. It looks to me that your players are trying to bully you into giving them too much for free. If one of them were an "Iron Man" type, or something, who -already- had alot of technical and scientific skills, and the campaigns tech base was higher than that of modern Earth, then I might let them have the base they -paid for- in the time they ask. But theyd have to pay for it first. And the players would be able to justify the scientifically revolutionary breakthroughs of making not only working, self-replicating robits, but ones that could walk independantly, recognize coplex situations and objects, and perform useful functions such as construction, in so short an amount of time. And itd cost a h*lluva lot more money than parts from Wal-Mart. I mean geez! Nobody thought to go to Radio Shack for the computer parts! SHEESH!

Re: Superhero Images Im glad people like the artwork, but Im sorry if my inability to resize things is causing aggravation. *shrug*

Re: Superhero Images Here's SERAPHIM, the Eliza Dushku-looking regenerating martial artist in my current Hero game. Im especially proud of this costume