Ndreare

This is true gaming wisdom that a lot of people never get. In the source material an author can often ignore a protagonist abilities and their logical applications in the interest of the story. Even provide Dues Ex Machina when needed or one time powers for the hero because he has complete control over it and no worries of abuse. In RPGs players have conflicting goals and sometimes a players desired pal would ruin everyone else's fun. The most fun happens when we are all on the same page and with the same goal. PS: Can you imagine how much it would suck to be a player in one of the Fox X-men universe? Yes it works in theater for Wolverine to have seven movies were he saves the world. But if you were sitting at that table playing Jean or Scott you would be miserable watching him play for and hour before you get your 12 minutes. After which he comes in and saves the day. I tell you the truth that is why Jean went Dark, but when she tried to kill him the GM let wolverine win again.

The best way to ensure immutability would be to add to the character in Inherent on all of his traits and then add the power defense.

The trigger is for the usable on others. As a default your power is not protecting everyone else.

Mistakes happen.

No finished character yet, but the original character is a light tank, but with a super high invulnerability. He will probably be built using the templates from Champions, by selecting what is wanted and ignoring the remainder of the powers instead of the normal approach of direct conversion. Currently looking at about a 40 strength, 20 con and 20 Bod. I am sure as the character gets built sacrifices will have to be made.

I have never heard of the Bearowl myself and I have never heard of anything that could not be done in Hero. I imagine the screech that shuts down spells was the feature he thought would be hard to model? It looks valid to me, even if it is outside the normal box I think in.

Tagged to follow, but I have never seen them abused. Makes me curious how often is considered abuse by one game master compared to another.

He is trying to model a Marvel FASERIP character who had True Invulnerability at Amazing (50)

A player has an idea for a character who's primary power is True Invulnerability. Basically he wants to have 150 points in defense as 12DC Damage negation for Physical and Energy with the inherent modifier. I am inclined to allow this thinking even a bad guy with only 50 AP attack would be allow to hay maker or move by to increase enough to damage him. What concerns me is the big bad guys with 75 AP attacks would end up hitting him with him only having 2 PD non resistant defense, which could ring his bell real easily as the group tank. He is okay with that so what do you think.

Supressed by bug spray? I cannot imagine how that would ever come up, but I can imagine the players look of disbelief as you tell him. "The Janator, has decided it is time to get rid pf these besky bugs" and lays out the 'bug spray'!!!

I would just allow someone to make an acrobatics roll as a complimentary roll to the Dodge maneuver. Giving them up to +2 based on margin of success. Not sure if it would be worth spending the time or points to create an actual power.

Here is a good build I think for 48 points 48 Mannequin: Damage Negation (-6 DCs Physical, -6 DCs Energy), Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1/4), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Recipient must remain close to Grantor, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; friend is attacked; +3/4) (120 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Mannequin takes the full effect of the attack; -1), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

This could be a teleport with autofire and a resetting trigger linked to the block maneuver. Another simpler option I would use is Resistant defense usable by others only linked to a major side effect that happens every time. As a GM I would allow you to exceed the normal AP limits for the game.

That should be workable, especially if you maintain an active point range. Are you allowing non mages to take super skills (talents to represent awesome training)?

Not really, In our fantasy games we use multi-powers all the time with no issue. But we have thieves with invisibility that requires a stealth roll, and shape change that requires a disguise roll. Fighters that use deadly blow or extra strength only to use bow, and monks with martial arts. The power system is natural in hero and as long as character powers have a similar number of limitations you will see relative balance. What I do see that can be game breaking is the mage whose multipower has gestures -1/4, incantations -1/4, concentration 1/2 DCV -1/4, extra-time full phase -1/2, requires a skill roll -1/4, variable limitation -1/2 (-1 in OAF or x3 endurance). All of a sudden the wizard who “is protected by the front line warriors” gets to buy all of his powers with -2 ½ in limitations. While the other characters normally only have -1/2 or perhaps -1. The wizard then effectively gets more points than the other characters which can often be placed in Aid, or uncontrolled defenses (shield spells) that really aren’t so limited. How we temper this in our games is “group approval” basically when you make a character everyone in the group gets to review it and raise concerns. PS: Funny thing is sometimes you see suggestions for fantasy to get rid of multi-powers, but then apply a cost divider… I do not like this approach myself as it makes the characters incompatible with the published monsters in the bestiary.

Sounds like a good idea, as an OAF this could end up being super powerful for a very low real cost. Make sure you want this before you release it to your players.

I have always gone with what feels right. For example in a horror game they go poof, while in a standard fantasy game they stick around just like any other being.

That feels like a wrong approach in general to me, the game should be playable out of the box for GM's who spend the money on the supplements. After all if we have to rework the characters why would I buy them, we could just make them ourselves. The only reason in my opinion to buy the supplements is to make GMing easier.

The question was framed as a 6th edition question. In 6th edition published villain books Hardened is super common and not just on tanks, but on a lot of other characters as well.

Hardened is super common on published characters.

Experience, money,interest and time. I thought I saw a link were someone did set up their own and shared it. But for Hero games to do it, it would have to be financially rational.

No one can think of everything (although Steve Long did a great job of thinking of most things). Instead we see caution and stop signs telling the game master to think about what the power is or how it interacts. At this point I am having trouble understanding your continued argument. The potential for breaking balance is there, you appear to disagree that the flag should be raised on this side and instead should be on the free Equipment side. But that would cause it to be ignored or dismissed because virtually every heroic game will use free equipment. If this is not your point of view... I know it can be an unreasonable request, but to avoid the moving target would you be willing to state/write your full concern in one post?

I think that the concerns may have been around point savings. Example: Joe the Arch wizard had to pay full points for his ability, but Thom the Battle Wizard got discounts because he only had to pay points for the advantages he added to the great sword. Effectively letting Thom knock 30 active points of of the price he pays for stuff. I can see it being frustrating to some players in a heroic level game were equipment is free. But we will never know because TPTB never answer game design philosophy questions.

Yes, I see no problem here. Move along folks, nothing to see here.

I have always treated it as supers can push up to +10at will and heroic characters get 5+ margin of success. I think knowing the official ruling will not change how we play. But it is surprising what you miss considering 3 editions.