5th Ed. Help

[TheGotcho]

Geez. I hope I'm not spamming I put this in another place and realized it was the wrong place. I'm all too new to this all. I just recently picked up the book my uncle gave my awhile back(Im 14) and it seems really cool. I'd like to play it but I need help with some things in the book(I think I have a shortened version of 5th Ed its 400 pages about). I want to know how to make a character(I'd love making a Jackie Estacado[comic version] or a Adam Jensen or J.C Denton from Deus Ex). What hexes are exactly, how to be a good fair GM blah blah just to name a few.

[Nolgroth]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Mr Gotcho, you are about to enter a whole new hobby. Word to the wise, you are not going to grok everything in a single outing. Come back here and ask questions constantly. If you can get past the sometimes contrary answers, you will be picking it up in no time.

 

I think you have the full version of 5th Edition. It was shorter that 6th Edition and 400 pages sounds about right.

 

Now to your first direct question. Imagine, if you will, a map laid out on the table. The map is divided into a hexagonal grid. Each on of those hexes on the grid is, well a hex. They are used as a form of measurement. One hex equals two meters. Powers, movement, and senses are usually impacted and/or limited by how many hexes are between the character and the object/target.

 

Making a character like Adam Jensen or J.C. Denton requires points. I don't have the book in front of me, but towards the beginning is a chart of points assigned to various types of games. I would call Deus Ex Low-Powered or even Standard Superheroic. That's a good place to start anyway. We'll be waiting on your questions (though not with bated breath).

[TheGotcho]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Hahaha thanks I wouldn't think you'd hold it for my lousy questions. I think I might have hexes figured out(battle maps help right?) and I'll try to learn more rules before I tackle making a chracter. How many people do you normally have to play with? I also have no problem reading the whole book I was wondering if I had to or just start a game with someone and look at it when we hit a obstacle.

[Stacie.Winters]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

I'm going to be watching this thread... *activates Invisibility Field*

[Greywind]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Hahaha thanks I wouldn't think you'd hold it for my lousy questions. I think I might have hexes figured out(battle maps help right?) and I'll try to learn more rules before I tackle making a chracter. How many people do you normally have to play with? I also have no problem reading the whole book I was wondering if I had to or just start a game with someone and look at it when we hit a obstacle.

 

Read first. Make characters. Read some more. Revise characters. Read some more.

[RexMundi]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

5th Ed is 372 pages plus a character sheet, give or take. Mine has all the Revised data in it as well cribbed out so I have "extra pages" .... The Work week is about to tool up again, and I've moved on to 6e as well. However I can and will pitch in some 5th advice when I can make a window for it. Since Champions Complete was announced I started tooling up an entire new super's setting and campaign from the Big Bang forward. Taking advantage of the past couple of years and a whole lot of notes. Was going to perhaps blog it here once I figure out how the blog thingie works, though I could just do it as a thread posting. Straight walk through of the process as well so it will have the outlines and foundations for new folks wondering "how" ....

 

We used to get stuff like that all the time back in the days when "Dragon Magazine" and others like it were Cool and full of different game stuff and game articles from everyone but nowadays, seems the demand is there but no one wants to take the time to supply. Working on some art as well since there used to be back in the day, an Aspect of Champions that was user friendly to the just getting ones toes wet folks that's been missing for awhile.... Also thinking of a way to make it somewhat interactive with a few other folks I like around here but for now.... Placeholder so I don't lose the thread. Need to go take a pile of pills and try and get some sleep.

 

~Rex

[Nolgroth]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Hahaha thanks I wouldn't think you'd hold it for my lousy questions. I think I might have hexes figured out(battle maps help right?) and I'll try to learn more rules before I tackle making a chracter. How many people do you normally have to play with? I also have no problem reading the whole book I was wondering if I had to or just start a game with someone and look at it when we hit a obstacle.

Some systems are battle map agnostic. You can use Hero without a battle map, but it really shines when you do use one. My opinion anyway.

 

To actually play a game, the absolute minimum is two (GM/Player). As most people will tell you, having about 4-6 is ideal. That way you can create memorable games where you all share in some epic or funny moments. That being said, the way I learn the ins and outs of a system is to create several characters and have them fight. Start out small. Two characters rolling out a straight on blow for blow fight. Then start getting creative. Test out how Surprise Maneuver, martial arts, and other modifiers work. Then layer on powers that don't strictly do damage (Drains, Mental powers, Telekinesis) or ones that radically alter the playing field (Indirect attacks, NND, and AVLD). Lot's of stuff here, just take your time and ease into it.

 

My suggestion is not to try to read every Skill, Talent, Perk or Power description cover to cover. Get the theory down. For instance, understand that most Characteristic rolls are CHARACTERIC /5 (rounded to nearest whole number) + 9. You roll 3d6 and try to get under that number. For example, an INT of 12 would give you a roll of (12/5 = 2.4, rounded to 2 + 9 = 11 or less). An INT of 13 would give you a roll of 12 or less. This is THE basic mechanic of Hero and almost every method of determining success or failure is based on that concept. Skills, for instance, typically use a Characteristic roll and then add bonuses. There are, of course, exceptions but it is a good general concept to understand. You don't need to read every Skill to understand that basic concept.

 

Now, when building your first character, define what his/her abilities are in plain English first. That will help you narrow the search of abilities to look at. Your first character won't be perfect. Heck, your tenth character won't be. I still make flawed characters that miss important details. Don't sweat it. Have fun. Then play Rock 'em, Sock 'em Hero with the characters. You'll eventually get the hang of it.

[Christopher]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

This could also be the "Character Creation Handbook" for 5E. Around 410 pages. Unfortunately that one would be missing the entire combat rules.

That one has it's title written on every odd numbered page.

 

Creating characters:

The first thing you need to know is the powerlevel. There are three basic powerlevels, with several sub levels each:

Normal, Heroic, Superheroic. They even come with guidelines where abilities should top out.

 

Superheroic is the "natural" level for HERO, as it was derived from a Superhero game.

Heroic is the usual level for things like Fantasy, SciFi, Cyberpunk and most other campaigns. As well as minor foes in Superheroic games.

Normal Powerlevel is mostly used for NPC's of minor importance (traders, craftsmen, city guard).

 

The total points and the campaign guidelines/limits for that power level are what most likely gives you a hint as to "who is stronger".

 

The two main things charactes are build with are Characteristics and Powers

Characteristics are pretty self-explanatory.

powers: Not to mix up with super-powers. Powers is what most equipment in heroic games are build with. Different games use Different powers more often: A Heroic game with low magic/technology will likely use HTH-Killing Attack or Ranged Killing attack more often than a Superheroic game. While later is more likely to have powers like Desolidification in the game.

 

There are also Perks and Talents, for minor effects.

[TheGotcho]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Oh ok Thanks for the help but looking at the book now I figured out it was the normal one is has the combat rules and stuff.

[TheGotcho]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Oh and one more thing. Where can I get a battle map?

[Kaze9999]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Do you have a game store nearby? If not, these guys are pretty much the standard for battle mats:

 

http://www.chessex.com/mats/Battlemats_MegamatsReversible.htm

[TheGotcho]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Yeah like a gamestop and vintage stock. Would any of those sell them?

[hancock.tom]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Not gamestop, they are video game only as far as I know. Don't know what "vintage stock" is but could be worth a try.

 

Three suggestions. First, try to get a copy of "hero system basic" for 6th edition or "hero system sidekick" for 5th edition. Those are shorter, simpler versions of the HERO rules Suggestion two, which was given to me when i was 14 or so, and was the best gaming advice I ever got: Find someone local that plays and either get in their game or at least watch them play. Third suggestion, just play. Even if you mess up rules, have to "fudge" things alot, there is no substitute for playing to learn.

[TheGotcho]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Thanks for the suggestions:) Could anyone tell me some popular stores to buy things at?

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

The only online store I've bought RPG stuff from besides Amazon and eBay vendors is Noble Knight Games. They did an excellent packing job and got my stuff here in one piece, which is better than Amazon usually does. Actually, most eBay vendors do a better packing job than Amazon too.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

I'm surprised nobody has linked this yet:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/77944-Hero-In-Two-Pages-Complete?

 

That'll get your toes wet, at least.

 

Tasha has this guide to creating a character, as well:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/82091-My-character-building-technique-%28How-to-build-Hero-System-Characters%29?p=2077452#post2077452

 

I posted a couple of combat examples in this thread:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/3210-Running-Combat-amp-Combat-Management-Sheet

 

There's one very basic one set in a Fantasy context, and another one in a superheroic context. They're not perfect, but others pointed out my goofs, so they should be helpful.

 

And oooh, shiny! I found this combat examples while looking for my old ones. It's way cooler, and uses a hex battle map, even.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/86791-4ed-Firewing-versus-Champions-Battle-Report

[TheGotcho]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Thanks Ill check all those out.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

TheGotcho to piggyback on what Nolgroth said, go under free links and look for Herosytem genre by genre, not only is it a great read of different genres, but it also has character sheets of some sample hero of different genres! Use them for the rock'em sock'em battle that Nolgroth suggested. (Which I also do) Don't even worry if you use a Super versus a heroic character. Just do a sample or two and look then and see why something was built that way. And of course come back here and ask questions.

[Nolgroth]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

I'm surprised nobody has linked this yet:

Looking up links is hard work! I'd rather go "blah blah blah" than do any actual work. Sheesh. People these days expecting effort of all things. Preposterous!

[Lucius]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

This could also be the "Character Creation Handbook" for 5E. Around 410 pages. Unfortunately that one would be missing the entire combat rules.

 

I believe Christopher came in with the 6th edition and therefore seems to be unaware that the 5th edition is complete in one volume. The 6th edition Core Rules are divided into two volumes: Character Creation and Combat and Adventuring.

 

Can you tell us, do you have the 5th Edition, or the 5th Edition Revised? Should say right on the cover.

 

Creating characters:

The first thing you need to know is the powerlevel. There are three basic powerlevels, with several sub levels each:

Normal, Heroic, Superheroic. They even come with guidelines where abilities should top out.

 

In 5th, and all other earlier editions, you create a character by spending "Character Points" on abilities, and by choosing Disadvantages which get you more points to spend. 6th works the same way except that they are called Complications rather than Disadvantages, and how they work is explained much less clearly. If you're running a game, you need to decide how many points your players get and how many Disadvantages they can take; if you want to create a character for someone else's game, the first thing you need to know is how many points to build with.

 

On the other hand, if you're trying to create a copy of a specific character from a comic book or movie or story, you don't necessarily have to worry about a "budget."

 

Superheroic is the "natural" level for HERO' date=' as it was derived from a Superhero game.[/quote']

 

That the Hero System started as a way to simulate comic book superheroes is a fact. That "Superheroic is the 'natural' level for HERO" is a common opinion not everyone agrees with.

 

Heroic is the usual level for things like Fantasy, SciFi, Cyberpunk and most other campaigns. As well as minor foes in Superheroic games.

Normal Powerlevel is mostly used for NPC's of minor importance (traders, craftsmen, city guard).

 

The total points and the campaign guidelines/limits for that power level are what most likely gives you a hint as to "who is stronger".

 

The two main things charactes are build with are Characteristics and Powers

 

Another opinion I'll have to disagree with. In many games, Skills are much more prominent than Powers. I've spent a hundred points on Skills for a superhero character, not even counting Martial Arts. Just try building Batman without any Skills!! Disadvanges are also important; not just "a way to get more points" but a way to define the characters in terms of what they can't or won't do or what challenges they have to overcome. Superman's Code Against Killing and Susceptibility to Kryptonite define the character quite as much as being more powerful than a locomotive (high STR, a Characteristic) or able to leap tall buildings in a single bound (Leaping is a Power.)

 

Characteristics are pretty self-explanatory.

 

I don't know about that, but the explanation in the book should be clear - and if it's not, ask questions.

 

powers: Not to mix up with super-powers. Powers is what most equipment in heroic games are build with. Different games use Different powers more often: A Heroic game with low magic/technology will likely use HTH-Killing Attack or Ranged Killing attack more often than a Superheroic game. While later is more likely to have powers like Desolidification in the game.

 

Running is a good example of a Power almost everyone has; in fact, characters get it for free. As Christopher says, a "Power" is not necessarily a "superpower."

 

An important thing to remember about equipment is, it may be "built with Powers" to explain how it works in the game, but that does NOT always mean a character must spend points to have it. In Heroic games, characters often have things like weapons, vehicles, armor, and other gear "for free" i.e. it does not cost points. Even superheroes may have "ordinary" items without spending points on them. If a superhero cannot see in the dark he may choose to carry a flashlight for emergencies, but such an "ordinary" flashlight is likely to get broken in combat, the batteries may run out at inconvenient times, etc. If a superhero chooses to pay points for a flashlight for his utility belt, it's considered "part of the character" and is less subject to arbitrary breakage or malfunction - it's reliable, as any other Power bought for a character is reliable.

 

There are also Perks and Talents' date=' for minor effects.[/quote']

 

I have to admit it boggles my mind that someone can remember to mention Talents and even Perks, and forget to mention Skills entirely. But that tells you how diverse Hero can be; apparently Christopher plays the game without using Skills at all, and I can't imagine not using Skills. I can easily imagine not using Perks.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I can imagine a palindromedary tagline in every one of my posts

[gojira]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

I believe Christopher came in with the 6th edition and therefore seems to be unaware that the 5th edition is complete in one volume.

 

No there were two handbooks produced for 5th, Combat and Adventuring, and Character Creation. I assume he's referring to one of those.

[Tasha]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

No there were two handbooks produced for 5th' date=' Combat and Adventuring, and Character Creation. I assume he's referring to one of those.[/quote']

 

no those are the 6e titles.

 

the 5e books are named "The Character Creation Handbook" and "Hero System Combat Handbook". Those are of course broken out of the Black and Green 5th Edition Revised Hero System Rulebook. (I checked on my bookshelf before posting)

[Lucius]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Some things you don't technically need:

 

Battlemap

You can just put your markers on a tabletop and if necessary, measure with a tape measure or even just "eyeball it" when calculating ranges. But if you have something marked off in hexagons you can count the hexes and it makes things much easier. If nothing else, you can print off pages of simple blank hexes (what nongamers call a "honeycomb pattern") and tape them together.

 

Miniatures

You can play using bottlecaps, as long as you can tell which bottlecap is which character. But it's not unusual for players to want to use metal or plastic figures for their characters' markers on the map. Some people get a lot of joy out of modifying and hand-painting their figurines, and probably most people find it easier when what's on the table at least looks something like what it's supposed to represent.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Just try finding a palindromedary figure

[Christopher]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

I believe Christopher came in with the 6th edition and therefore seems to be unaware that the 5th edition is complete in one volume. The 6th edition Core Rules are divided into two volumes: Character Creation and Combat and Adventuring.

 

Can you tell us, do you have the 5th Edition, or the 5th Edition Revised? Should say right on the cover.

I do know that it was published as one book.

He also noted he didn't knew wich one he has and the 5E Character Creation Handbook is something I have.

 

I have to admit it boggles my mind that someone can remember to mention Talents and even Perks' date=' and forget to mention Skills entirely. But that tells you how diverse Hero can be; apparently Christopher plays the game without using Skills at all, and I can't imagine not using Skills. I can easily imagine not using Perks.[/quote']

It boggles my mind that you never even considered that I simply forgot it. Like we non-prefect beings (humans) tend to do

[Tasha]

Re: 5th Ed. Help

 

Some things you don't technically need:

 

Battlemap

You can just put your markers on a tabletop and if necessary, measure with a tape measure or even just "eyeball it" when calculating ranges. But if you have something marked off in hexagons you can count the hexes and it makes things much easier. If nothing else, you can print off pages of simple blank hexes (what nongamers call a "honeycomb pattern") and tape them together.

 

Miniatures

You can play using bottlecaps, as long as you can tell which bottlecap is which character. But it's not unusual for players to want to use metal or plastic figures for their characters' markers on the map. Some people get a lot of joy out of modifying and hand-painting their figurines, and probably most people find it easier when what's on the table at least looks something like what it's supposed to represent.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Just try finding a palindromedary figure

 

BTW I like using "HeroClix" when I am playing Champions. I recommend Popping the figurine off the dial "ClixBase" and gluing them to a round 25mm(1") base. The Clix base is larger than an inch and can cause confusion if used unmodified.

 

HeroClix are plastic easily modified and repainted figures. Look for grey ring based figures on Ebay (The grey ring is the least powerful in the game and is therefore the most common and cheapest). You can find pretty much any DC or Marvel Character in many incarnations and many different sculpts. A slight knowledge of Miniature conversions and/or some imagination in painting can get you a figure for nearly any character you can imagine.