Jump to content

Hero System Lucky 7th Edition?


steriaca

Recommended Posts

So, if Hero could be stable enough to create a seventh edition, and stable enough to publish SOMETHING once per mounth, what would you want to see?

 

Me? I say not exactly an rule overhaul, but an explanation overhaul. Cheep, consiced, non-complicated, and even with options to make the game even more easy (like constant SPD). I don't exactly like the idea of splatbooks, mostly cause I only have a vauge idea of what that is. I DO like the idea of "extra rules to simulate the gendra" in gendra books.

 

Any way to make it cheep without sacrificing quality is welcomed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Throwing practicality to the wind, I'd prefer they take the Runequest route and go back to an earlier edition (4th) and re-release a cleaned-up and errata-fixed prestige edition of the BBB to remind the RPG community of those times. While that's going on, they can work from that bugfixed 4e base to build the 7th edition -- a simpler, clearer, more modern Hero System. And then take a left turn and start producing all-in-one books like the 3e days -- Champions, Modern Action Hero, High Fantasy Hero, Space Opera Hero, etc.

 

More realistically (but still in the realm of fond wishes, given the status quo), I would like to see 6e1/6e2 reprinted (with the known errata fixed) and then a line of all-in-one genre books for 6e produced that would just have pre-built stuff and a pointer to 6e1/6e2 for the complete powers system for those who are interested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not a jab at anyone else, but I'm the kind of person who's happy with what he's got. Nothing is perfect, so I feel really happy about 6th edition. I have fun playing it  with my friends :) I don't protest fixing things, or streamlining things, and if there's a really good idea about how to do something differently then I don't mind running with it. I don't feel an urgency, or even a need at all, for a 7th edition to come out, or any other supplemental books.

 

The idea of publishing something once a month is interesting, assuming that "published" doesn't necessarily mean "must buy to view". I'd like to see some stories! A send-in series where groups can write down snippets of their adventures at particularly exciting moments, or hilarious moments, or dramatic moments, in order to be shared with the rest of the community. Then we can all vicariously enjoy all of the genres we love but are not currently playing. 

 

EDIT: I totally would have sent in the ending to my last fantasy campaign.... one group of Knights of the Rose fighting a suicide battle against a Lich only for the purpose of distracting it while two treasure hunter nemeses are forced to work together to find the phylactery and destroy it, lest the Lich become too powerful and execute an evil reign over the land. And through many wonderful magical traps and puzzles, each experienced differently by each character (which I made up on the spot /brag), they managed to find it, illuminated on a pedestal, at the end of a gently flowing underground river. And as the blow was struck to the phylactery, shattering it and extinguishing the soul within, so was a blow struck to the last standing Knight of the Rose!

 

It was epic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably I'd want to see it written by a new author. I think Steve did a great job on 5th and 6th, and I also think he took his approach as far as it can go. We need to strip things down and add complexity on a more modular, as needed basis.

This is the approach we need, to stop Hero from dieng. We need to make Hero modular, short, and sweet, without sacrificing what makes Hero Hero.

 

If we actually need a 7th edition, or simply 6.75 edition is up to the head honchos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not just "up to the head honchos," it also has to be practically feasible. Hero is a dying game that, like the late 90's, is being held together solely by the strength of its fanbase. Any new edition of Hero would have to be written to reduce the complexity of the rules so that all these "rules light" and "narrative" players in the market will feel compelled to try it. Then it needs to be accompanied by a massive PR campaign with things like podcasts, a conspicuous social media presence and some energy. In other words, there would have to be enough interest to write the darn thing with confidence that the market will be big enough to support it.

 

Okay, now playing optimist and assuming that we have such a condition where the time seems right, the author of this hypothetical new edition has a lot on his proverbial plate. If I were prepping for something so monumental as the next edition of Hero, I would probably post a really inflammatory thread that boldly stated "Fuzion is Going to REPLACE Hero..." and then clarified in the first post of that thread "...unless you can tell me what is mechanically wrong and offer suggestions on how to fix it." That statement alone should generate a million page thread, but it would allow everything that people have talked about over the years to bubble to the surface and be evaluated. That is where I would start.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have all sorts of ideas on how to "fix" Hero mechanically. As I have said many times though, my fixes would essentially create a whole new game that resembles Hero only in the fact that it would use the 3d6 dice rolling and be a point buy system. I think about the time I cut out almost every Characteristic that did not pertain to Defenses, Recovery, or depleting stats like Stun, End and Body, I would lose a whole lot of people. Those that remained would probably run screaming when I told them that all skills start out at 0, Weapon Familiarity would become the new OCV skills, and the list goes on. So I cannot really say how I would change Hero to remain Hero and still have enough changes to warrant a 7th edition.

 

What I would like to see personally is some actual 6th Edition support. Adventures, splat books, and a thriving sense that the system/company is alive and well. Right now I am hearing the steady beep of the heart monitor and waiting for it to flatline. I don't mean to be negative, but there it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the assumption that the Hero System mechanics need a major change is fundamentally flawed. In my view it isn't the system that needs lots of fixing (or simplifying), it is the presentation of the system that needs a major overhaul. The Complete books took a reasonable step in the right direction, but they are one-off books with zero on-going support.

 

As I've said before, I don't think you can draw new players in on the basis of a game system they don't know yet. They would have to take everything your marketing copy says on faith, and I don't think that's ever going to happen. Instead you have to lure them in with something else, and that is a compelling campaign setting. A well-written teaser document describing a campaign setting can get people's imaginations fired up in ways that a description of the system can't hope to do.

 

And once you've got them on the hook for the campaign world, you give them the game system they'll use to play in that world. That's how you get them to play the Hero System. Of course, you have to explain the system in a way that is easy to digest, easy to introduce to new players, and easy to expand upon. I like the idea of there always being a "System Reference Book" that describes the entire system in complete detail, but that should not be the rulebook that new players start with, or that initially comes with the Campaign Starter Kit (or whatever it is called).

 

I honestly feel that tweaks to the system are the last order of business in any "7th edition" endeavor. There are other much more important things to do first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the assumption that the Hero System mechanics need a major change is fundamentally flawed. In my view it isn't the system that needs lots of fixing (or simplifying), it is the presentation of the system that needs a major overhaul. The Complete books took a reasonable step in the right direction, but they are one-off books with zero on-going support.

 

As I've said before, I don't think you can draw new players in on the basis of a game system they don't know yet. They would have to take everything your marketing copy says on faith, and I don't think that's ever going to happen. Instead you have to lure them in with something else, and that is a compelling campaign setting. A well-written teaser document describing a campaign setting can get people's imaginations fired up in ways that a description of the system can't hope to do.

 

And once you've got them on the hook for the campaign world, you give them the game system they'll use to play in that world. That's how you get them to play the Hero System. Of course, you have to explain the system in a way that is easy to digest, easy to introduce to new players, and easy to expand upon. I like the idea of there always being a "System Reference Book" that describes the entire system in complete detail, but that should not be the rulebook that new players start with, or that initially comes with the Campaign Starter Kit (or whatever it is called).

 

I honestly feel that tweaks to the system are the last order of business in any "7th edition" endeavor. There are other much more important things to do first.

 

Campaign settings are great. That's probably 100% of why D&D is so well-known IF we ignore the place it has held historically. I think the obvious choice would be a Champions setting of some kind, kind of a throw back, but it's classic. In that setting you could include different "locations" that are almost paradimensional in that they are different genres, including looks, characters, and narrative standards and visual effects, but you could still travel to them as a superhero, just like going one state over. Later real life superhero stuff was already mixed with Star Hero elements, Fantasy, and Pulp; Dark Champions and Teen Champions are pretty similar settings, too. Add a few more and you've got a complete cross-genre campaign setting that fits with the universal system of HERO.

It actually shouldn't be that hard with all of the supplemental media they've produced over the years. After all, the Monster Manual of D&D is a key element in the setting, stating things of historical value (like the fued between Giants and Dwarves) and where things come from (like other planes of existence).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the main thing is that, to gain a broader base, you really can't make Hero's granularity the centerpiece. This is NOT to say it should be discarded.

 

Standard packages, built off of the granular system, but standardized with their granularity invisible to all but the people who wish to understand the build.

 

For example, I've been thinking about doing a Harry Potter campaign, called The Aurors. Now, in Harry Potter, if someone casts a jinx, there is a counter-jinx. If you do the counter-jinx, no matter what, the jinx does not work. These are standards, and building the one power makes the same power for everyone.

 

In D&D, spell lists are quite standard. Combat maneuvers are quite standard. Weapons are quite standard.

 

If Hero tries to compete by sacrificing granularity, it will lose to systems that are established but never really had much granularity. If you lose the speed stat, you will lose the speedsters, and, by extension, the super level fans. Now, the speed chart could totally be lost, the stat could basically become a chance of acting in a segment, not a predetermined list of when people will act.

 

However, it is true that the system, in its full use, limits its popularity. This does not mean that, if presented in a way that all the math and work is done, you won't have a system that people can easily make characters with and play, but, like other systems, those characters will have less diversity as far as their powers and such. However, since the standardization would be based on the true system, simply not showing the true system except by inference, there could be advanced player's and GM guides that show HOW to make what you imagine outside the standardized system, yet they would be entirely based on the same rules that made the standardized system, and so balance would be preserved.

 

Functionally, there is no difference between these two(unless I slip up on the build of the first, which is irrelevant to what I'm pointing out):

 

Mind Link, Only with dead, only for three questions, one charge

 

Speak With Dead: This spell allows the player to, once per day, speak with a dead person in order to ask them up to three questions.

 

In terms of accessibility, the second is far more accessible to far more potential players. Yet, if the points are built on the same basis, they are built the same way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The main issue is math. There is simply too much numbers crunching in combat AND character design for most gamers, imo. I think that Hero could benefit from it's push to use technology in gaming by way of the designer and such. A free version based off of simple standards that came with the game would work well, so a Fantasy Hero designer, in which all the choices are quite standard and NOT termed in Hero technical terms, Sci-Fi Hero designer, Super Hero designer, etc.

 

Additionally, perhaps less of a focus on worlds as the basis for the games that old players are nostalgic about. And I'm really not sure of the value of the generic names for editions. Champions is a well known classic superhero game. I'm just not sure that the Hero name adds much value to the editions for fantasy, sci-fi, pulp, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In regards to my comment about technology: even with a pared down description of powers, certain ones get complex in gameplay, like allocating CSLs, drains against complex builds, damage to powered armor, etc.

 

If most players are not using software to play, many people will not find the experience satisfying UNLESS their GM does a lot of work to make it so.

 

Work that is vastly lessened by the use of computers. Which aids in letting the system be what it is meant to be.

 

Save GMs in their work, and they will be able to focus on other things, and will not find running the game as much of a time drain.

 

More people playing more satisfying games means more players.

 

Make it easier to play Hero, while making it still have Hero's strong points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll preface this as other have: I have no beef with 6th edition, and think that there's precious little need for a 7th Edition. 

 

That said, a hypothetical 7e - I'd definitely like to see more of the all-in-one-book solutions that we've seen thus far, though I'd dearly love to see them in hardback and full color.

 

Rule-wise, I'm a fan of a maps-n-minis style of play, so a modular, fully optional set of rules that hearkens back to the 2 meter hex days would be lovely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the approach we need, to stop Hero from dieng. We need to make Hero modular, short, and sweet, without sacrificing what makes Hero Hero.

 

If we actually need a 7th edition, or simply 6.75 edition is up to the head honchos.

 

The problem is that the fanbase is totally divided when it comes to "what Makes Hero Hero". Ask two of us and you will get two wildly different answers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would love to see a 7e cull some of the stats that are pretty much covered by other stats. I would like to see Stats that are the basis of skills to be expressed solely by the bonus to the roll they give.

I would love to see a reworking of the mental powers system that would work similar to the Stun/Body Damage system. Which would allow for mental powers to work at multiple power levels and also allow for lasting effects. Which would require the repurposing of one Stat and the addition of a Stun equivalent (yeah I know that it's not perfect).

Skills could sand to be culled a bit too and some skills merged into other similar skills.

Powers are probably ok. But a system that switched to adders solely and removed all multiplication and Division would be welcome.

 

Removal of all mechanics that require Multiplcation (ex perhaps Damage Reduction). (so no half DCV/ make roll by half then blah).

Reintroduce powers like Instant Change, and some of the others that were removed in 5e.
----

I Disagree with the idea of Stand Alone (rules included) supplements. There are many successful roleplaying games that have separate rulebooks from World books. I would like World books that have all of the abilities pre baked into the product. ie a Supers world with all of the powers pregenned with the apropriate power levels for the game etc. Fantasy Worlds with fully fleshed out Magic Systems etc. A set of Pregenned PC's. Also all world books should have a built in Campaign Adventure arc (See Savage World's Adventure Paths and Pathfinder's Adventures)

I DON'T want to see powers disappear from the toolkit. Every time this has happened, it has increased the difficulty of creating characters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we are at a Catch 22. Many of us like the "can build anything" approach, but the gamers just getting into role playing, they look at all this rules and options and ask "can someone please build this for me".

 

So, how much hand holding should we go for? And, we do want new people so the game we love lives. But...how much can we sacrofice to make it so? And wouldn't it require a strong company willing to hire and pay people to create first party stuff on a regular bases? That doesn't sound like Hero Games as it exist today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we are at a Catch 22. Many of us like the "can build anything" approach, but the gamers just getting into role playing, they look at all this rules and options and ask "can someone please build this for me".

 

So, how much hand holding should we go for? And, we do want new people so the game we love lives. But...how much can we sacrofice to make it so? And wouldn't it require a strong company willing to hire and pay people to create first party stuff on a regular bases? That doesn't sound like Hero Games as it exist today.

 

I am forced to agree that Hero Games, as it exists today, is not positioned to do anything of substance with the system they own. Tragic, really. Consequently, everything we talk about in threads like this is idle dreaming and nothing more.

 

But in the spirit of day-dreaming, I would say that a product line based around a campaign world can start with a highly pre-packaged form of the game where lots and lots of stuff is already built for players and GMs. After all, the original Champions was a learn-by-example game. The sample heroes and villains served as tutorials, in a sense, of how to build characters. A setting-based product line would provide lots of sample heroes and lots of pre-built villains (like the Enemies books, but specific to the campaign setting and the Epic Plot going on in it). Same goes for pre-built gear (or spells or whatever).

 

Running combat, however, usually requires a gamer already highly experienced with other RPGs (and wargames). I suppose a Starter Kit could strip down the combat system and leave subsequent books to fill in the more advanced details, but I don't believe you want players permanently using the stripped down version as if that is the actual game. Not for long anyway. The goal isn't to dumb down the game, but to smarten up the newbie player base, to the point where they can play the full game and appreciate everything it has to offer.

 

99% of a "7th edition" effort should be in devising and writing up the campaign world, filling it with pre-built stuff, and planning and presenting an entire series of books and supplements to support the setting. A Starter Kit and a Core Rules book built around the setting would come first, with more advanced material coming along later. Changing the system and its mechanics would take up the other 1%. Really, the system doesn't need more revamping, it just needs a little tweaking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would love to see a 7e cull some of the stats that are pretty much covered by other stats. I would like to see Stats that are the basis of skills to be expressed solely by the bonus to the roll they give.

 

I would love to see a reworking of the mental powers system that would work similar to the Stun/Body Damage system. Which would allow for mental powers to work at multiple power levels and also allow for lasting effects. Which would require the repurposing of one Stat and the addition of a Stun equivalent (yeah I know that it's not perfect).

A starting point could be making the standard cost for mental powers 10 points per 1d6, rather than 5 points, but making them cumulative by default. Under the current model, the same 60 points I could use for 12d6 Mind Control would buy 6d6 Cumulative Mind Control, with a 144 point maximum accumulation (Cumulative, plus two doublings). Just making it cumulative without limit would not be a huge change.

 

I Disagree with the idea of Stand Alone (rules included) supplements. There are many successful roleplaying games that have separate rulebooks from World books. I would like World books that have all of the abilities pre baked into the product. ie a Supers world with all of the powers pregenned with the apropriate power levels for the game etc. Fantasy Worlds with fully fleshed out Magic Systems etc. A set of Pregenned PC's. Also all world books should have a built in Campaign Adventure arc (See Savage World's Adventure Paths and Pathfinder's Adventures)

As a revival strategy, a strong series of adventure paths would not be a bad idea. It certainly allowed Paizo to springboard, and build a game world one stage at a time. It's odd that, when the big players (including Hero) decided adventures were not the product line to focus on, Paizo came from nowhere and became a major player by first focusing on the adventures.

 

I think there is some merit in a "quick start" sulebook that would have little or no character creation. This would be bundled with a second book which combines a setting and builds for that specific setting, with point costs, but not full builds. The full build could be made available as an "online extra". The build rules would be in a full Hero System product, not directly linked to any "Powered by Hero System" game. It would need a name that clearly spells out that it is the "Advanced Options and Custom Design" rules, not a game in itself.

 

So, in the game store, we have a Supers campaign book bundled with the basic rules set, a Fantasy setting bundled with the same basic rules, a Sci Fi setting, a Pulp setting, what have you. But these have all of the powers - superpowers, sci fi weapons, psionics, mutant powers, spells, weapon maneuvers, etc. described and priced, but not built. You want to build your own powers, spells, etc.? Buy the Full System Rules. You're happy playing with the game setting and its pre-builds (and nothing prevents having three volumes of additional power builds for successful settings), then you might never look at the customization rules.

 

I think the expansion of the rule set for character (and, more notably, character ability) creation has demonstrated that the pool which values this customization over the simplicity of pre-fab powers is not large enough to support the system and generate regular product releases. It's the model I like, but it's not the model that wins when mass marketed.

 

Is that a 7th edition? I don't think so. You could do this with any edition. But instead of the present Champions Complete, we would have the combat rules portion of that book (with maybe a few of the "not often used for Supers" options added back in), the core mechanics (how characteristics work, how skills work, maybe the skills entirely as they are pretty portable) but no "ability creation" as the "System Rules". The "Game" portion would feature guidelines on characteristic levels, skills to be used (or not used), their likely levels and a host of pre-built SuperSkills, Super Powers, Martial Arts Packages, Complications, etc., plus a basic setting with a number of sample characters. Round it out with an introductory adventure, ideally one which serves as the first few sessions introducing a larger Adventure Path as those have now developed in the market.

 

Then support the lines that sell with more books. More adventure paths, perhaps altering some of the character rules to fit their tone (Dark Champions, Teen Champions, Galactic Champions). Supplemental power builds - some just adding more powers, others built to a theme (e.g. a gadgets book that also introduces pre-fab vehicles and bases with add-ons, a martial arts book that rolls out ranged martial arts packages, etc.).

 

That would look a lot like D&D and Pathfinder, you say? Yeah, it would. THEY SELL. But they don't have that core system that allows you to build your own game, replacing the races, classes, spells and feats. If you don't want that, at least we are hopefully a viable choice over D&D and Pathfinder. If you do, Hero is the only real choice.

 

So I guess I agree with "don't lose the power construction system". But I disagree with it being the "core rules". Power construction is the "advanced option". Unlike most games, where "design a race/class/spell" is a really tough book to create, Hero has a system behind the existing abilities, making a "design your own" book a breeze - it's the book the designers of the games used.

 

Hero is not a game - it is a game design system. If we want to bring more people to Hero, Hero needs to sell games, not just the system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I Disagree with the idea of Stand Alone (rules included) supplements. There are many successful roleplaying games that have separate rulebooks from World books. I would like World books that have all of the abilities pre baked into the product. ie a Supers world with all of the powers pregenned with the apropriate power levels for the game etc. Fantasy Worlds with fully fleshed out Magic Systems etc. A set of Pregenned PC's. Also all world books should have a built in Campaign Adventure arc (See Savage World's Adventure Paths and Pathfinder's Adventures)

I DON'T want to see powers disappear from the toolkit. Every time this has happened, it has increased the difficulty of creating characters.

 

I think a lot of people could get behind having pre-built stuff in the genre books, and the full powers system in some other document. 

 

However, I don't think that everyone who plays Hero should be asked to buy a book with the powers system in it. It just seems too intimidating to people. They need something simpler, with just the rules used in play and the simplified character creation with pre-built stuff to choose from.

 

So that leaves us with one document with the powers system, a bunch of genre books with pre-built stuff, and then the rest of the rules either in those genre books or some third book. I think it'd be an easier sell to put the rules in each genre book, but doing it the other way could be made to work, too, I suppose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you literally cut out the powers(as in, powers for builds, as opposed to stock powers), advantages, and disadvantages from a stock genre standardized system, the only issues left for most non-Hero gamers are the game play elements that involve math that those end up contributing to. Note, the prefab genre standardized system would ENTIRELY be based off the granular system.

 

Really, if this was something they wanted to do, a forum or a series of sticky threads just for that, and they'd end up having the work done for free by those who love the challenge of a build. Kind of like, Challenge: make a power that fits this description: Shield: this low level shield protects the user from blah blah blah.

 

Of course, it might turn into arguments about whether Wolverine is the most overrated character ever, or if he is just the most overrated character in human history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems the fact of it is that we don't truly need a 7th edition more than we need a healthy Hero Games which publishes something regularly (once per moungth or more), is able to pay for writers and artwork without asking for handouts on Kickstarter, and has the ability to attract new players to the game system.

 

In the current situation, this seems like an impossibly. Should we be digging a grave for Hero instead of keeping it alive on life support?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems the fact of it is that we don't truly need a 7th edition more than we need a healthy Hero Games which publishes something regularly (once per moungth or more), is able to pay for writers and artwork without asking for handouts on Kickstarter, and has the ability to attract new players to the game system.

 

In the current situation, this seems like an impossibly. Should we be digging a grave for Hero instead of keeping it alive on life support?

"Begging for Money" on Kickstarter is the new model for medium to small game companies now. Pretty much everyone ex. Paizo and Hasbro funds their PnP RPG projects this way. Pinnacle (Savage Worlds Company) does 2-3 Kickstarters a year. All very successful. Many of the Savage World Licencees are doing the same with great success.

 

Hero related Kickstarters have been boring. They offer a book in PDF and Hard copy form. Addons that include Hero Designer files, other related books, PDF's of old versions. All really boring. I would love to see them offer Themed Dice, An Adventure, Miniatures etc all as exciting goals, and not just Color art, extra size etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like Champions Complete and Fantasy HERO Complete are the closest thing to 7th edition we are ever going to get... Short of the IP being sold to a company willing and able to invest a huge amount of money into the system. CC/FHC are what I use to run HERO, and I am quite happy with them.

 

For what it is worth, both CC/FHC simplified a lot of aspects of 6th edition: Such as condensing the categorized skills. Removing the concept of classes of minds from Mental Powers). Cutting itself down to less than half of the size of Pathfinder's Core Rulebook without losing much, if any of the game elements necessary to make it HERO. They even included a few of the more popular game elements from outside of the core rules volumes (FHC has the ranged martial arts maneuvers for example). Moreover, they even managed to remain more or less backwards compatible to all of the "old" 6th edition material.

Admittedly both books could use an errata and a 2nd printing to correct tabulation errors, omissions, and typos. But considering that Pathfinder's Core Rulebook has been errata'd and reprinted at least six times, that isn't a big deal to me. I would happily purchase an errata'd & reprinted CC/FHC.

 

While there is a lot of debate amongst the community regarding what to change about the HERO system in future editions, I feel like there is a general consensus that there needs to be a stream of new plug & play material being published for HERO to reinvigorate the community, and a major Ad campaign to get its name out there again, and get people seriously looking at CC/FHC (which I feel is much more approachable than 6th). For what it is worth, there are independent writers putting out new material for HERO. However they need patronage to keep producing that work, and more of us need to join the "production side" of the HERO system community. There aren't enough of us left to sit back and wait for someone else to do it for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a disconnect in our present reality: there is a belief among many that tabletop RPGs have as many active players today as ever. And yet companies can not make the publication models of the past (physical products sold through traditional distribution chains and sold through local brick and mortar stores) work. This does not compute.

 

I don't believe we live in a world where a niche system like the Hero System can thrive in a way necessary to have full-blown product lines that attract new players in large numbers. There is no "someone else" out there (that we know of) who is capable enough and willing to do what would need to be done. And given the disintegration of the traditional distribution chains, local game stores, and gaming clubs, there is no way to make the old ways work again. Today it's either sell directly through Amazon or forever remain an obscure niche product.

 

Once you take a cold hard look at the situation, you realize that what we have now is as good as it is likely to get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a lot of people could get behind having pre-built stuff in the genre books, and the full powers system in some other document.

Genre books are a different beast entirely. I think the system needs to exist first, because it is what the writers will use in building their own abilities for their settings. But I think we need actual games, in their own settings, with all of the dials set and the abilities pre-constructed for selection, not needing to be designed by player or GM. That will, of necessity, reduce choice. Maybe there are only three FireBlast spells, 6d6, 8d6 and 10d6, and they all cost full END. You want 7d6, that lights the target and costs no END? Buy the System Book and tinker away. Or wait and hope the next volume of the Grimoire provides such a spell - just like the D&D or Pathfinder players do.

 

The lack of a "read the book, build a character, play the game" model is, I think, a huge disadvantage to Hero attracting entry level players. The model of System Book first, then a Genre Book to provide dozens of options to use the system book to create a variety of different games and game worlds in that genre and all of its subgenres, and get to an actual specific game setting later, if ever, isn't doing the job.

 

If I were a new gamer, would I want to buy (say) the 2 volume system rules, plus Hero System Fantasy, plus the Valdorian Age, then build my own spells, monsters, adversaries and adventures? That's a hefty investment in cash and time.

 

But what if I could buy The Valdorian Age, and it came with:

 

(a) the Hero System gameplay rules;

( b ) a description of how magic works, mapping out the common limitations but not the build mechanics;

( c) half a dozen to a dozen racial templates and two or three dozen class/profession choices, again with ability descriptions but not mechanical builds;

(d) a bunch of pre-fab spells, racial abilities, skill tricks and combat tricks, some of which are already incorporated in those racial and profession templates;

(e) a bunch of monsters, and other beasts (horses, say?; familiars, maybe; some animals which could be followers or foes);

(f) a starting setting with a 3 - 4 session adventure, leading into a larger Adventure Path (which will further develop broader parts of the game world, perhaps provide other new game elements, and for sure new enemies to match the rising character power)?

 

A complete game - build your characters and let's game!

 

The full system is still available for those who want to tinker, build their own setting or adventures, etc. More books can be released adding more races, professions, racial abilities, skill tricks, combat tricks, spells, even entirely new magic systems. But they are all pre-fab. The mechanics stay behind the curtain. Maybe available online as an "extra feature" for those wating to delve into the system and tinker.

 

Genre books are a step between "Hero System" and "Game Powered by Hero System", providing advice on creating different games or settings in the same genre, assuming people buy the Hero System in enough mass to justify what are essentially guidebooks on how to use the system to build your own "Game Powered by Hero System"

 

It seems the fact of it is that we don't truly need a 7th edition more than we need a healthy Hero Games which publishes something regularly (once per moungth or more), is able to pay for writers and artwork without asking for handouts on Kickstarter, and has the ability to attract new players to the game system.

I agree with Tasha on this. Darren Watts is not asking for handouts to create Golden Age Champions - he is asking for pre-orders, with prepayments. If it does not fund, he gets nothing - no handouts. If it does, we get our book(s). If you don't like Golden Age Supers, or you don't think Darren will do it justice, don't sign up. No one should feel obliged to fund a project they have no interest in.

 

Like comics in the 1980's, RPGs are evolving a new distribution system.

 

I feel like Champions Complete and Fantasy HERO Complete are the closest thing to 7th edition we are ever going to get

No, they are different presentations of the 6e rules. They are one step between my "Game Powered by Hero" model and the "System + Genre Book" model.

 

For what it is worth, both CC/FHC simplified a lot of aspects of 6th edition: Such as condensing the categorized skills. Removing the concept of classes of minds from Mental Powers). Cutting itself down to less than half of the size of Pathfinder's Core Rulebook without losing much, if any of the game elements necessary to make it HERO. They even included a few of the more popular game elements from outside of the core rules volumes (FHC has the ranged martial arts maneuvers for example). Moreover, they even managed to remain more or less backwards compatible to all of the "old" 6th edition material.

The sole change to 6e rules the author of Champions Complete claimed to make was the removal of Classes of Mind. All else was revised presentation, including a culling of elements rarely used in the genre in question. I assume the Fantasy Hero Complete mandate was similar. I am biased in regards to ranged martial arts - I thought they should be in the 6e core rules - but that would have made the 6e core rules bigger, as well as more complete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...