2021 Baseball Thread

[Cancer]

Frankly, when I read about all the people who've been Commissioner of Baseball, the only one I feel any admiration for is Happy Chandler.

[slikmar]

I started reading that article about Manfred. My problem is, it starts with the rookie salary thing, which was part of the CBA. I am not sure what that article thinks he could have done about it. MLB owners have been presenting an increased rookie/pre arbitration amount with a decent (not great in comparison, but still decent) for those players in the rookie levels who are considered elite. Again, you can't put everything on the owners. How about $40 mil a year Scherzer, or some of the retired guys who made multi millions as stars AND advertising go and buy teams and then they can pay what they want, or start a new league if you want if you can convince everyone to go.

[unclevlad]

7 hours ago, Pariah said:

How Rob Manfred's ineffective reign as MLB commissioner led to baseball's 'disastrous outcome'

 

Followup on this...good story, BTW...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/01/sports/baseball/mlb-lockout-manfred.html

 

If paywalled:  

1.  The owners have never made an offer that would be acceptable.

2.  The "competitive balance tax" has been effectively an excuse to limit salaries at the high end, and has been the union's #1 bone.

3.  The owners' offer of adding basically 5% but holding it there fore 3 years????  Never, ever gonna fly.

 

silkmar:  the players want a couple things.  #1:  significant raise in baseline pay.  #2:  MINIMUM expenditure structures.  These aren't for the big names.  I think you're focusing on the wrong thing...and Scherzer isn't the only voice.  I don't believe he started in the negociations either, for that matter.  

 

I get the sense you're fixating on the salaries of the few.  EVERY sport overpays the perceived top players.  I'll agree that IMO baseball's the worst, in that it's the one where no single player can help *that* much.  But let's take the Dodgers.  Their total salary isn't just Scherzer and Kershaw:

 

Mookie Betts    28    RF    Vet    $17,500,000    $5,000,000    -    $22,500,000    $22,500,000    8.46    30,416,667
Kenley Jansen    33    RP    Vet    $20,000,000    -    -    $20,000,000    $20,000,000    7.52    16,000,000
A.J. Pollock    33    LF    Vet    $15,000,000    $3,000,000    -    $18,000,000    $18,000,000    6.77    12,000,000
Cody Bellinger    25    CF    Arb 2    $16,100,000    -    -    $16,100,000    $16,100,000    6.05    16,100,000
David Price    35    SP    Vet    $32,000,000    -    -    $32,000,000    $16,000,000    6.01    15,000,000
Corey Seager    27    SS    Arb 3    $13,750,000    -    -    $13,750,000    $13,750,000    5.17    13,750,000
Justin Turner    36    3B    Vet    $8,000,000    $4,000,000    -    $12,000,000    $12,000,000    4.51    17,000,000
Max Muncy    30    1B    Arb 2    $7,500,000    $1,500,000    -    $9,000,000    $9,000,000    3.38    8,666,667
Joe Kelly    33    RP    Vet    $8,500,000    -    -    $8,500,000    $8,500,000    3.20    8,333,333
Blake Treinen    33    RP/CL    Vet    $6,000,000    $2,000,000    -    $8,000,000    $8,000,000    3.01    8,750,000
Chris Taylor    30    2B    Arb 3    $7,800,000    -    -    $7,800,000    $7,800,000    2.93    6,700,000
Corey Knebel    29    RP    Arb 4    $5,250,000    -    -    $5,250,000    $5,250,000    1.97    5,250,000
Trea Turner    28    SS    Arb 3    $13,000,000    -    -    $13,000,000    $4,567,568    1.72    4,567,568

 

From Sportrac for 2021.  The number after the - is the salary cap number.  They picked up good to very good pieces for MULTIPLE spots, and those contracts add up.  But the low spenders have only a handful of even $5M contracts.  So something is seriously wrong.

 

I do get the risk that the changes are likely to make the rich get richer, and yeah, I definitely don't want that either.  But the current system isn't working.

[slikmar]

I agree. And your right, i probably do focus what I am saying about the top end players (I am an Angel fan and we have both Trout and Rendon - not to mention Upton - and are probably going to have to match the national debt for Ohtani), but my thoughts are the jouneymen, which is why I am annoyed with how the MLBPA have driven those contracts up then seemed shocked when teams pay those contracts and don't want to have the other 20 players earn more then $5 mil a year if they can help it. I do think a minimum threshhold is very much needed and I understand the frustration of young players like Arozarena not getting paid commiserate to their production, but this (older players being paid for their body of work) is what the MLBPA wanted back 30 years ago and they have not, until NOW, tried to change it. Part of their problem is, Teams have become so analytics driven that the guys who are turning 30 (somehow a magic number) are no longer valued - easier to bring in a rookie who probably has similar stats and earns FAR less.

As I said somewhere above - MLBPA hates what the Rays and A's have been able to accomplish because it entices other teams to try that mold but fail badly at it.

[Pariah]

It's the Kalamazoo Growlers of the Northwoods League (which is not affiliated with MLB).

 

At Least One Baseball Team Has Now Issued MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred a Lifetime Ban

[slikmar]

Well, given the last set of proposals the MLB owners presented, you can't say they aren't willing to negotiate. Now we will find out if the MLBPA is. The owners basically came up to or close to everything the MLBPA had been asking for. Now its time for the players to allow some concessions so we can play baseball. Up til now, there stance has seemed to be all or nothing.

[unclevlad]

WHOA!!!!!

 

Surprise, surprise, surprise!!!

 

MLB.com is reporting an agreement has been reached, pending ratification.  

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-mlbpa-agree-to-cba

 

NO details, tho.  Which is a concern.  A comment last time was that Tony Clark gave away too much last time, so if there isn't enough movement on things, it's possible to me that it *won't* be ratified by the players.  I'm less worried about the owners agreeing, but it'd be foolish to say that's a foregone conclusion.

One point that was mentioned:  they'll schedule doubleheaders for the cancelled games, it'll be a full 162 game season.

[Michael Hopcroft]

9 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

WHOA!!!!!

 

Surprise, surprise, surprise!!!

 

MLB.com is reporting an agreement has been reached, pending ratification.  

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-mlbpa-agree-to-cba

 

NO details, tho.  Which is a concern.  A comment last time was that Tony Clark gave away too much last time, so if there isn't enough movement on things, it's possible to me that it *won't* be ratified by the players.  I'm less worried about the owners agreeing, but it'd be foolish to say that's a foregone conclusion.

One point that was mentioned:  they'll schedule doubleheaders for the cancelled games, it'll be a full 162 game season.

The days when a single ticket got you to both sides of a doubleheader are long gone, of course. As a member of sportsgame leagues, I came to loathe doubleheaders, especially when working with a 25-man roster, because it threw my bullpens into chaos. Bullpen management is not my strong point, anyway.

[Pariah]

The traditionalist in me is saddened by the adoption of the DH by the National League. But there will be baseball, and that's good.

 

The Rockies will finish dead last in the NL West, of course.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

3 minutes ago, Pariah said:

The Rockies will finish dead last in the NL West, of course.

 

Is that in the agreement? Wow, they play for keeps. 

[archer]

5 minutes ago, Pariah said:

The traditionalist in me is saddened by the adoption of the DH by the National League. But there will be baseball, and that's good.

 

The Rockies will finish dead last in the NL West, of course.

 

I've completely lost track...is that official?

 

The DH thing, of course. I'm already aware of the Rockies.

[unclevlad]

Elements in the agreement right now, from ESPN:

 

Other elements of the deal include:

• A 45-day window for MLB to implement rules changes -- among them a pitch clock, ban on shifts and larger bases in the 2023 season

• The National League adopting the designated hitter

• A draft lottery implemented with the intent of discouraging tanking

• Draft-pick inducements to discourage service-time manipulation

• Limiting the number of times a player can be optioned to the minor leagues in one season

The DH was gonna happen.  Yeah, I get the purists dislike it, but not doing it has nasty ramifications on bullpen use.  Plus, the existing situation was IMO *clearly* the WORST case, with one league doing it, and the other not.

 

If they do the pitch clock, I want to see a batter clock as well.  Jeter was one of the worst...step out after EVERY pitch, fiddle with gloves, fiddle with guards, step back in, get reset.  NO.  Yeah, OK, if the batter fouls one off his leg/foot, give him a moment, but otherwise, stay in the freaking box and ready to hit!!!!!!  Also:  not sure what the rule is when there's runners on base.  In the past, it's been tossed out the window altogether, but that's something I'd want changed.  

 

Sounds like the players did get some movement on the competitive balance and service time points, and those were big.

 

 

 

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

2 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

Draft-pick inducements to discourage service-time manipulation

 

What does this one mean? What is going on now that they need to stop?

[Pariah]

10 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

If they do the pitch clock, I want to see a batter clock as well.  Jeter was one of the worst...step out after EVERY pitch, fiddle with gloves, fiddle with guards, step back in, get reset.  NO.  Yeah, OK, if the batter fouls one off his leg/foot, give him a moment, but otherwise, stay in the freaking box and ready to hit!!!!!!

 

[unclevlad]

24 minutes ago, Logan.1179 said:

 

What does this one mean? What is going on now that they need to stop?

 

Kris Bryant was held in the minors for a couple months before he was called up, until a particular deadline was passed.  That deadline impacted his years of service credit;  after it passed, he didn't get credit.  Years of service dictate when a player can become a free agent, so by sitting the player out for a few months, the club gets an additional year of control.

 

Bryant was an early, *glaring* example but it's gone on a fair bit, as I understand it.

[unclevlad]

New details:

1.  Doubleheaders will be 9 innings, not 7.

2.  Standard rules...no runner on 2nd...in extra innings.

 

So we'll have the damned, BORING!!! marathons that kills bullpens.  

 

There's NO doubt in my mind that the standings will mean nothing before...I wanna say the 4th of July holiday, or thereabouts.  Opening day is set for April 7th, that's 4 weeks, so there'll be no time for preseason.  Pitchers will be treated with kid gloves by pretty much *everyone*...especially given the extra innings and doubleheaders...and neither pitchers nor hitters are going to be sharp for quite some time.  

 

Also, 12 team playoff.  That's high but not horrible, from the standpoint of regular-season valuation.  Too few teams, it's too sensitive;  too many, it's too diluted.  The general consensus I've seen is the sweet spot is about 1/3 of the teams, with anything from about 25% to about 40% being OK.  This is 40%.

 

A concern here:  the executive committee voted 8-0 to *reject*.  The player reps voted 26-4 to *accept*.  That suggests it'll be ratified to me...but also that there are serious unsatisfactory conditions, so we may well be right back here in 2027.

[Cancer]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

If they do the pitch clock, I want to see a batter clock as well.  Jeter was one of the worst...step out after EVERY pitch, fiddle with gloves, fiddle with guards, step back in, get reset.  NO.  Yeah, OK, if the batter fouls one off his leg/foot, give him a moment, but otherwise, stay in the freaking box and ready to hit!!!!!!  Also:  not sure what the rule is when there's runners on base.  In the past, it's been tossed out the window altogether, but that's something I'd want changed. 

 

Did you ever see the Human Rain Delay in live action?

[unclevlad]

I haven't seen a live game in 50 years, so...no.  And I'm glad.  I'm completely losing any tolerance for most slow play cases;  tennis has several players that stretch the serve clock.  (Altho the serve clock has some procedural points that need to be worked out better.)  Someone standing at the service line bouncing the ball a dozen times drives me up the wall.  The whole point of it, far too often IMO, is trying to rattle the opponent.  The practical result is to aggravate the audience.

[archer]

I like going to the DH.

1) It helps keep players healthy by giving them a virtual "day off".

2) Allows you to bring back good players from injuries and get them back into the groove gradually.

3) Extends the careers of some players who are good batters but who've lost a step in fielding.

 

Does it mess up some of the strategy of when to bring pitchers in and out? Sure. But watching pitchers hit sucks. And watching a pitcher who is pitching well get pulled so someone else can bat really sucks.

 

So more upside than downside.

 

Probably better for baseball as a business to keep stars playing.

 

====

 

I don't see a problem with shifts. You beat a shift by batting over the shift, being more patient and going for a walk, or batting to the field opposite the shift.

 

When clubs start drafting players who can beat a shift and training players on how to beat the shift, the shift will take care of itself.

 

If a player is one-dimensional enough that he can't beat a shift, he's not deserving of the big money.  

 

2 cents

 

====

 

Mixed feelings on a pitch clock. I don't particularly like slow games. But a large part of the game is the catcher and pitcher trying to figure out how to deal with a batter.

 

When pro basketball went to a shot clock, it was so short that all thoughts of setting up an offense went out the window and the game became unwatchable for me. 

 

If the pitch clock is "get the ball, throw the ball" with no pause to figure out what to do, that wouldn't be a move in a good direction.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

What happens when the pitch clock runs out? Balk?

[unclevlad]

Shifts:  I *detest* the push to eliminate shifts.  Hitters can't avoid pulling the ball?  Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh.  Learn.  Stop glorifying bad hitting.  

 

Pitch clock:  again, they're pros.  Like the hitter...the goal isn't to figure out anything.  THAT takes 10 seconds.  The rest of the time is to get the batter to second-guess.  But me?  I think it screws up the pitcher.  A smooth, even, well-paced rhythm always seems to pay better than herky-jerky, slow pitching.  The pitcher gets no rhythm doing that.  

 

Pitchers will adjust.  Batters will adjust.  They'll whine and bitch for several years, but they'll adjust.  

 

Pro basketball went to the shot clock in 1954.  I have to question any memories you might claim of the transition.

 

Logan:  IIRC, if the pitch clock runs out, it's called a ball, IIRC.  Balk would only matter when a runner's on base (and I believe there is no pitch clock there).

[slikmar]

I think the vote was telling. Most the guys on MLB and insiders think reported, as mentioned above, that the executive committee voted against it and the individual player votes as tallied by team were overwhelmingly for (26-4). Harold Reynolds pointed out that most of the executive committee were players earning over $300 million, but the biggest gains in the CBA were for the low end and younger players. I, again, go back to my earlier argument that maybe the executive (read negotiators) shouldn't be the guys who are making the top contracts, but more should be the guys who can relate to the other 1000+ players in the league earning minimum or low end contracts.

[Pariah]

Okay, forget what I said about the universal DH. This is the thing that really bugs me.

 

MLB to add jersey advertising for first time in league history as part of new CBA, per report

[archer]

5 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

 

Pro basketball went to the shot clock in 1954.  I have to question any memories you might claim of the transition.

 

 

I misspoke and meant to say college rather than pro. I never cared for pro basketball (though I was a fan of the red, white, and blue basketballs).

[Pariah]

For an exhibition game that ultimately means absolutely nothing, I agree with the author that this is a fine idea. The only problem I have with it is that people might think it's such a good idea that they decide to move it to the regular season, which would suck.

 

MLB's All-Star Game could be decided by home run derby instead of extra innings