Anti-Clinging

[Steve]

How would you build a surface or an object that Clinging doesn’t work on? Some sort of drain on clinging built as a damage shield? Perhaps a Change Environment construct?

[unclevlad]

How about Barrier, 1 PD, with Opaque to Normal Touch?  Rationale being, if you can't touch the surface, you can't cling to it.

[Grailknight]

Sounds like a job for an AoE-Surface Suppress.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Change Environment might work, but it would allow a roll, maybe STR roll at a penalty to stick.

[unclevlad]

4 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Sounds like a job for an AoE-Surface Suppress.

 

I like this one too, particularly for, say, an ice wall.

[Christopher R Taylor]

It usually doesn't take a lot to turn clinging off, its only 10 points for base STR, and how many characters buy more than that?  Still, its going to be fairly expensive to get a suppress AE surface big enough to reliably shut off clinging immediately.

[Doc Democracy]

I think that is fine, unlike defending an attack, this is denying a movement power.

 

I think I might go for Change Environment if it was a power that could be used in game.  If it is something in a scenario, I might give a player a roll to notice a material difference and simply rule it not versus clinging (though would have heavy SFX rationale and some clinging, depending on SFX might work).

[Ninja-Bear]

How about Desolid only vs Clingng? It’s a real wall that you can damage but if you try Cling to it, you can’t hold onto it. As for the Change Environment, which I also like. Buy it high enough and it just works, no roll allowed, just how Talents work.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Would a desolid wall have to take affects real world so that people couldn't just walk through it?

[LoneWolf]

Technically you would need to affects real world.  Doing it this way will be complicated, confusing and expensive.  There are a lot of ways that are easier and cheaper to do.

 

It also depends on what you want to stop.  Since Clinging uses ground movement to move up the wall you could target that with Change Environment.    -1m or movement is only 1 point.  30 points would get you a -30 to ground movement which is probably enough to stop anyone from climbing.  This would not stop someone from clinging in place, but would prevent the target from moving on the wall.  If I were GM and the character bought enough movement to stop any upward movement I would probably allow it to stop someone from clinging in place.  This also works well if you just want to make the wall difficult to climb.   

 

Instead of a suppress clinging you could use dispel clinging.  Put it in a damage shield and it affects anyone touching the wall.  Dispel is fairly cheap and 10d6 would only cost 30 points before the damage shield.  
 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Technically you would need to affects real world.

 

What would you buy the advantage on?  The paint?

[LoneWolf]

It would probably be the body and defense of the wall, because that is what characters interact with on a wall.  If the wall is defined as a barrier, use that.  If it is part of a base use the characteristics of the base. That is why I said it is complicated and confusing.  Rather than figure that out it is a lot easier to find a better way to do it.  

[Gauntlet]

You could write it up as follows:

 

Cost: 167                                         

Writeup: Ghost Barrier: (Total: 187 Active Cost, 167 Real Cost) Barrier 10 PD/10 ED, 5 BODY (up to 10m long, 3m tall, and 1/2m thick), Affects Physical World (+2) (147 Active Points) (Real Cost: 147)

and

Desolidification (affected by Magic) (40 Active Points); Linked (Barrier; -1/2), Only Makes Barrier Desolid (-1/2) (Real Cost: 20)

END: 19

 

There would be one problem though, as technically even if you purchase Desolidification that does not protect you in any way you still have to put the Affects Physical World (+2) on all of your other attacks. So this type of power would be EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE!!!

[Gauntlet]

I you were just looking to have a Barrier that someone could not use clinging on, it might just be better to add suppress clinging rather than making it desolid.

[Ninja-Bear]

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Would a desolid wall have to take affects real world so that people couldn't just walk through it?

That why I said only versus Clinging. 😜

[Gauntlet]

40 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

That why I said only versus Clinging. 😜

 

Doesn't matter, if you have desolificaton, even if it doesn't protect you, you still have to have the advantage Affects Solid on everything. I even put in question on that and was told that it the way it was period.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Applying desolid to something else is ridiculously expensive and technically you cannot affect a thing that is not a power with modifiers.  If you really had to twist the GM's arm, you could apply it to the Body of the wall as if its a base but come on, really?  That's why I said it as a goof.

[Gauntlet]

Why did you want your Barrier to be Desolid. If it is so that it stops someone who is Desolid then you just need Effects Desolid. If you want to make it so that it is practically unbreakable perhaps a better way would be to add a ton more defense with the limitation, does not work verse attacks that effect Desolid. In addition you would also want to add Hardened and Impenetrable to the entire Barrier. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

It was an offhand suggestion on how to make a surface impossible to cling to: because its not there!

[Gauntlet]

18 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

It was an offhand suggestion on how to make a surface impossible to cling to: because its not there!

 

For that just add suppression to Clinging to the Barrier, cheap and doesn't allow anyone to cling to the wall.

 

For Example

Total Points: 67

Power Writeup: (Total: 85 Active Cost, 67 Real Cost) Barrier 10 PD/10 ED, 0 BODY (up to 15m long, 3m tall, and 1/2m thick) (Real Cost: 49) plus Dispel 6d6, Area Of Effect (15m Long, 3m Tall, 2m Wide Line; +1/2), Constant (+1/2) (36 Active Points); Linked (Barrier; -1/2), Only Effects Those Using Clinging For The Wall (-1/2) (Real Cost: 18)

END: 9

Edited December 30, 2023 by Gauntlet

[unclevlad]

If we're basing on Dispel, and presuming a wall we're treating...we don't need Barrier, unless you really want to reinforce the wall.

 

The AoE is obviously case-specific, but the basis should be Surface, not Line;  it's not projecting out, it's covering the wall...or barrier.  "Thickness" is also a nonsensical concept for the dispel.  Now...I'm not sure how large an advantage this'll be, as HD and 6E don't really jibe...but by the same token, the 6E language is terribly sloppy.  The intent, as far as I can tell, is Surface starts with one, 4 square meter area.  Then you can double the total area for +1/4.  This fits with 

 

 

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for example, if a character wants to “cover” the Surface of a Barrier that’s 20m long and 4m high, that’s 80 square meters, so the GM might rule that the equivalent of 20 2m radius areas would cover it).

 

It's not a radius at that point, it's a square.  

 

HD is doubling the side length...which would give 4x the area...for each +1/4.  Radius *does* double the radius itself, ergo increasing the area by a factor of 4, tho, so what HD has may well be sensible so long as you treat the size number as the size of the square, and determine the area from that.  (Side^2.)  

 

I'm gonna assume that it is the length of the square...so 16m Surface means 256 square meters, which can be shaped to fit.  That would cover a 20m x 10m wall.  It's +1 at that point.

 

So, we need AoE (set to +1), Constant, 0 END, and I'm gonna assume Persistent...it seems a serious weak point to need to turn this defensive measure on.  So, +2 1/4.

 

How large a Dispel?  If we go with Standard Effect, then 4 dice would be 12 points, and this is a good place to use it, IMO.  Don't want to roll the effect.  4d6 Dispel (standard effect) is 12 points;  that --> 39 with the advantages.

 

Limitations...Always On makes sense.  I'd be REALLY leery about giving a price break for anything like Extra Time;  is this really something you'll use in combat?  Doesn't feel like it.  Linked?  Not if it's being applied to a wall.  With just the Always On, it drops to 26, to cover up to 256 square meters.  Bigger is cheap, too...we're talking only +3 points to the active cost...+2 to the real cost...for each area doubling.