How does Dr. Doom compare to Dr. Destroyer

[Guardian]

I was considering having the PCs in my game face off against that icon of evil super-villains, Dr. Doom. My question to those of you who are much more knowledgeable than I about comic history: How tough is Doom?

 

Could I essentially use the Dr. Destoyer character sheet? How do Destoyer's defenses rate compared to those Doom has shown in the comic books? He could certainly handle the Human Torch's and the Thing's best shots with taking only stun, and not body. How tough would Doom's maximum attack be?

 

Thanks for your input...

[Monolith]

Dr. Destroyer is almost godlike in power level and in my mind far more powerful than Dr. Doom. Doom would be smarter, and have a bigger Gadget Pool but all the armor powers across the board would be weaker, imo.

[Kzinbane]

Doom

 

Doom personally is not on par with Dr. Destroyer. Dr. Destroyer however would likely not survive a "hunted by Doom" for very long. Doom's real advantage is that he is very intelligent and can invent about anything he puts his mind to.

Unless your team caught Doom by surprise he'd likely be ready with weapons or devices that are matched to known disadvantages (and he would likley know the disads, of be able to find them). Also remember that before you even get to Doom you have dozens of robots to fight through. Finally when you DO meet Doom it may just be a Doom robot!

 

Dooms powers - energy blast at least, jet pack for flight (built into it) and strengh probably at 40 or so. I'd give the armor a fairly high VPP so he can put different things in it. One thing he rarely uses but is reported to have is a force field capable of withstanding an atomic blast! Mainly though the fact that he can build virtually anything is where he rules. If he weren't so arrogant and took advice or features from others (such as Stark's Iron man armor) he would be nearly unstoppable.

 

I think he'd be an excellent supreme bad guy for a team to encounter. By the time they actually met him he'd know a lot about them and have gadgets in his armor designed to *$#&*! with them. Finally the added fun of having the team cellebrating their victory over Doom and then the armor mask pops off to reveal it's just a Doombot.

 

Hmm. Now that I have the Hero2 software I should put together a character sheet on Doom. I think I have read virtually every comic he's been in (I read a LOT of comics) and have a very good idea of his powers... yeah... something to do tonight...

I can have my group meet him (Spellbinder, you should not be reading the forums!)

[Lord Liaden]

Don't forget Doom's skill at sorcery. He'd probably have a fair-sized selection of spells, in a Multipower or even a VPP.

[Ghost who Walks]

Doom was originally a Fantastic Four villain...which meant he was to be defeated by brains and wits. If it came to an actual fight, only teamwork could stop him (all the FF working together). He has been exported to a number of "other" comics over the years...usually to his detriment as a character.

 

I always saw Dr. Destroyer as more of a tactical battle exercise. He is a villain that pretty much requires an entire team working together, to defeat. My best use of him as a character was to copy Dr. Doom story. Have him take over a country, and become head of state. Then he gets diplomatic immunity, and can growl menacingly in the background.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Kzinbane

Hmm. Now that I have the Hero2 software I should put together a character sheet on Doom. I think I have read virtually every comic he's been in (I read a LOT of comics) and have a very good idea of his powers... yeah... something to do tonight...

Don't forget his Luger!

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks

Don't forget his Luger!

 

Correction: broom-handle Mauser.

[Chuckg]

My own opinion on the topic is that while Destroyer has a significantly more powerful suit of armor, and a larger /present/ organization, Doom has a much more powerful "everything else".

 

Destroyer is already pretty much topped out. In order for him to get significantly more powerful than he currently is, he'd have to undergo a long and lengthy process of research and discovery. Likewise, in order for him to significantly increase his power base (more agents, more bases, etc.), Destroyer would have to plan and then execute a lengthy campaign of conquest. Destroyer pretty much already is all that he can be.

 

Doom, OTOH, is content to keep a lot more potential in reserve, and operate day-to-day at a less overwhelming level. But if Doom ever truly felt the need -- there is so much that he /can/ easily do that he simply has not done yet, as he hasn't felt the need yet.

 

With only a moderate effort, we've *SEEN* him acquire cosmic power beyond Destroyer's wildest dreams. We've *SEEN* Doom build up a strike force so large that it was potentially capable of flattening the entire planet Earth in a straightforward military conquest. (FF #28, second run, Claremont run). We've *SEEN* Doom steal Cosmic Cubes from the Magus and come within one half-second of obtaining the Infinity Gauntlet itself, and only be denied due to a direct screw-over from the Plaht Gawds.

 

So, without significant prep-time -- Destroyer wins.

 

*With* significant prep-time -- for the next thousand years, strong men shudder and weak men faint at the memory of Destroyer's fate.

[Benzini]

Doom like

 

Once, Von Doom actually stole the power cosmic from Silver Surfer. AND he has stolen the Beyonders power as well, both times essentially becoming a God himself...Doom and Destroyer seem to both have the same resources, (that of a nation) but Destroyer has been alive longer, (in theory) and I'd have to give him the edge.

[Blue]

Doom has more resources (In fact, an entire country full). It's good to be the king.

 

 

Plus destroyer is an RPG character, therefore, unlike Doom, he isn't real!

[Kzinbane]

Doom2

 

If Doom and Destroyer were to pop into a wrestle mania cage and only the one left living gets out things would be dicey for Dr. Doom. He might think his way out of the problem, trick destroyer or something though and prevail or escape.

 

In any case which Dr. Doom we are talking about here needs to be decided. The original (40 years ago almost in the first FF books) wasn't too powerful, though as always was smart. The later incarnations (say back when he met the X-men in the 80's and fought Iron man) his armor is much more advanced, he's a master scientist + has more gadgests in the armor.

10 years ago (maybe less, maybe more - I am lousy at timing things) he decided to update his sorcery skills and with Dr. Strange went to Hell to fight Mephesto. He used his armor to copy the gestures for spells (neat trick) and did pretty darn good.

The last we saw of him he traded his technology for sorcery by dealing with some demons. He kicked the FF's butt 6 ways from Sunday in short order but as usual didn't kill them all outright and with Dr. Stranges help Richards defeated him by tricking Doom into breaking his deal with the Demons which demanded that they get credit for anything Doom does magically. They dragged him to somewhere nasty and that's that.

Doom has the ability too, to exchange bodies once he gains eye contact, a trick he's only pulled a few times but could be useful. I think it takes a while and only works on "weak minded fools" (real ones - in Doom's view everyone fits into that catagory).

Doom's overconfidence and arrogance are usually his un-doing. If he gets annoyed enough he'll come join a "party" himself rather than letting his robots do the work.

[Ghost who Walks]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Correction: broom-handle Mauser.

Dang, your Doom-Fu is powerful!

 

Originally posted by Blue

Plus destroyer is an RPG character, therefore, unlike Doom, he isn't real!

Next you will be claiming that Telios isn't a real boy!

[Chuckg]

Re: Doom2

 

Originally posted by Kzinbane

Doom's overconfidence and arrogance are usually his un-doing.

 

And Destroyer has the same problem, only *worse*. So it's a non-factor for this fight card.

 

As for which Doom portrayal -- unless post-"Unthinkable" Doom is specifically required, I generally use later Claremont FF Doom, as that when was Doom was really on top of his game.

[TheEmerged]

Destroyer as written in CKC would only have a chance in a standup, duke it out kind of fight. And even then, it would be a dicey proposition.

 

Friend of mine used to have a great description of Dr. Doom. "Technologically he's just shy of Iron Man -- and can beat him on some fronts. Magically he's just shy of Dr. Strange, and has some advantages in some areas. He can kill a raging lion in his birthday suit (Doom limited series issue 1). The problem is that, contrary to his own belief, Doom is in fact his own arch-nemesis. This is the guy who conquered the world (either two or three times) and each time ended up giving it up because it no longer represented a challenge."

[SomeAsianKid]

I think Doom would win, hands down. Destroyer's only real limitation is that he won't use magic. Doom however has no such qualms about magic.

[Guardian]

Thanks for all of the helpful suggestions. I'm relieved to hear that most of you think that Doom's armor wouldn't be as strong as Destroyer's. I was looking at Destroyer's stats and thought, "Yeesh! My heroes can't touch this guy!" (They had a campaign limit imposed at character creation of 12 DC, and after almost a year of gameplay now the most aggressive attack is 14 DCs).

 

I picked up the "Domains of Doom" campaign set, from Marvel/TSR 1992. They list Doom's powers, but there is little info on disadvantages/weaknesses, etc. Powers in the Marvel RPG are apparently rated by a bizarre Stan Lee-esque hyperbole system ( "Incredible", "Stupendous", "Monstrous!" ) that means little to me in good ol' concrete Champions terms.

 

The powers listed are:

- Mind Transferral (switching minds post eye contact)

 

- Magic Spells:

Crimson bands of Cytorak ( entangle)

Dimension Travel ( Mephisto's realm only)

Eldritch Bolts ( Energy Blast )

Eldritch Shield ( Force Field )

Summoning of Supernatural Beings

 

- Doom's Power Armor:

Body Armor

Electrical Field ( Damage Shield )

Flight

Force Bolts

Force Wall

IR Scanners

Life Support (everything except Immortality)

Enhanced Senses (radio, hearing, vision)

"thermo- energizer" an END battery that recharges from solar and heat exposure.

 

And of course there is the VPP Gadget Pool, for all of those plot-specific power suppresses, drains, and transfers that he would toss at a host of Marvel Good-Guys.

[Logan D]

Suggestion:

 

Based on everything I've heard above (plus some hazy memories of my own), I think that you would likely find the write-up of Professor Muerte from the 4th Ed Classic Enemies (If you have that book) to be a good template for Doom at least as far as his physical capabilities go.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Logan D

Suggestion:

 

Based on everything I've heard above (plus some hazy memories of my own), I think that you would likely find the write-up of Professor Muerte from the 4th Ed Classic Enemies (If you have that book) to be a good template for Doom at least as far as his physical capabilities go.

 

That's a good suggestion; I was thinking that myself. Actually Muerte's creator, Steve Perrin, recently posted an expanded version of Muerte's character sheet (in 4E HERO) which would probably be just as useful, if not more so. I've got it right here:

[Caped Crusader]

I can have my group meet him (Spellbinder, you should not be reading the forums!)

Bad news, Kzinbane...

 

Read and digested.

 

Although, I'm not sure what good the forewarning will do...

 

Besides, I was here first.

[Supreme Serpent]

Depending on your group, I'd be careful about using "Doctor Doom". If you have big Doom fans/genre fiends in your group, they may not agree with your interpretation of him, even to the point of derailing the game. "Doom would never do that! In FF #blah blah blah..." etc. Be warned.

 

Might be better off with a blatant rip-off - change the name and outfit, keep the abilities/general thrust of the character. "Dr. Dread" or somesuch.

[Kzinbane]

My take in "my" universe...

I have told the players that they may well encounter characters that have the same names and MAYBE the same powers as those in comics. In other words it's quite possible that some mutant or whatever has spider powers and decided to call himself Spider-man and is swinging around New York. He may even use the same costume as the comic book version. What this lets me do is run the group up against (or along side) an established Marvel or DC character, but also keep my creative license to have their powers different, and other changes as I see fit. This also keeps them from potentially knowing their secret identities, weaknesses and such in a pinch...

So if I were gaming Doom it would not necessarily be "THE" Dr. Doom right out of Marvel. Call it an alternate reality Doom if you want, but you'll derail the complaints that Doom wouldn't do this, or do that which may arise.

Heck when it comes right down to it the writers in comics don't even follow their own continuity. If you are the GM you are by default the writer.

[Ghost who Walks]

Originally posted by Kzinbane

So if I were gaming Doom it would not necessarily be "THE" Dr. Doom right out of Marvel. Call it an alternate reality Doom if you want, but you'll derail the complaints that Doom wouldn't do this, or do that which may arise.

Heck when it comes right down to it the writers in comics don't even follow their own continuity. If you are the GM you are by default the writer.

All true, I do the same thing.

 

As an example, I heavily modified Dr. Destroyer.

 

Once I made her a female alien impersonating a nazi war criminal who had traveled through time as one of the few suriviors of her race and desired nothing more than to feel save and secure in the modern world, Destroyer became interesting. Of course, it took a while for my players to figure all this out. It did do a better job of explaining his ubertech, however.

[megaplayboy]

I always thought of Dr.Destroyer as a cross between Dr. Doom and the Red Skull. That is, the arrogant genius of Doom, and the ruthless scheming of Johann Schmidt. Doom might be smarter than Zerstoiten, and of course his abilities may be a bit broader. Zerstoiten is likely to have more raw power. In a sudden encounter, I'd favor Destroyer, but in a situation where preparation is involved, Doom would prevail.

[ChuckB]

Destroyer is closer to Galactus' power-level , than say , Doom.

 

Doom is about on the same power level as individual members of the FF.

 

On occasion , he'll invent or find something that makes him a lot more powerful , usually he relies on guile.

[GestaltBennie]

In a battle between Destroyer and Doom, Destroyer blows Doom to smithereens, only to discover that he destroyed Yet Another Doom-bot. The real Doom, watching on one of his millions of video monitors. chuckles and sets off the autodestruct device in the place where Destroyer and faux Doom just fought, making a pithy statement about "amateurs" as the button clicks.

 

But Zerstoiten isn't dead. Old Albert digs himself out of the rubble, and makes a vow to get revenge by laying waste to everything Doom loves (ie. Latveria), and marks it down on his calendar.

 

Thus the whole cycle starts over again. And somewhere out there, a pair of cosmic entities who've made a wager on the outcome, squabble over who really won that encounter.

 

They're all just a bunch of big, snarling children in tin suits. :-)

 

Scott Bennie

[Agent X]

I think Galactus is a bit mightier than 150 active point attacks suggest.