FenrisUlf Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 HI all, Recent discussion of the JSA has set me to pondering -- How woudl any of you handle either (a) Wildcat's 'nine lives' (I'm thinking a powerful Regeneration, only when at 0 BODY, limited to eight charges) or ( Johnny Thunder and his djinn? Would it be the result of a big-arse Summon, or a monstrous VPP with the special effect that it's all done by the djinn (and as such he can be stolen away, stopped if Johnny can't speak, etc.)? Just fishing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Re: JSA powers Originally posted by FenrisUlf HI all, Recent discussion of the JSA has set me to pondering -- How woudl any of you handle either (a) Wildcat's 'nine lives' (I'm thinking a powerful Regeneration, only when at 0 BODY, limited to eight charges) or ( Johnny Thunder and his djinn? Would it be the result of a big-arse Summon, or a monstrous VPP with the special effect that it's all done by the djinn (and as such he can be stolen away, stopped if Johnny can't speak, etc.)? Just fishing here. Actually, I think I would do Johnny Thunder as Duplication rather than summon, even though the damage rules would make it wonky. The T-Bolt is just a little too obdient in all the appearances I've seen with it. edit to add - or build Johnny as the T-Bolt's follower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 As far as the Regeneration for Wildcat I would go with something like this (this is taken from my write-up for elves in a new fantasy campaign I'm working on): Elve's Of The Six Lives: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) Healing 1 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (20 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 6 Hours (-2 1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Resurrection Only (-1/2) (Real Cost: 4) plus Resurrection, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (40 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, -4), 5 Charges which Never Recover (-2 3/4), Self Only (-1/2), Resurrection Only (-1/2) (Real Cost: 5) You would just adjust the charges to 8 and whatever Extra Time modifiers you wanted based on the character. I would just use a Summon for Johnny Thunder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Re: JSA powers Originally posted by FenrisUlf How woudl any of you handle either (a) Wildcat's 'nine lives' (I'm thinking a powerful Regeneration, only when at 0 BODY, limited to eight charges) or ( Johnny Thunder and his djinn? Well, I'm confused... Which retcon introduced Wildcat having 'nine lives'? As far as I was aware, Wildcat was just a normal with lots of martial arts and acrobatics-type stuff. That's how I would build him. Johnny Thunder? Good question. I'd never thought about it. Maybe the Thunderbolt should buy Johnny as a follower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Yeah I'm one for johnny being a DNPC or follower...duplication sounds good too.....I too have never heard of the "nine lives" thing...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Originally posted by pinecone Yeah I'm one for johnny being a DNPC or follower...duplication sounds good too.....I too have never heard of the "nine lives" thing...... It is a fairly recent retcon. I think since the start of the current run of JSA, but I could definitely be wrong about it. Anywhos, it is basically an expanation of how come a so called normal who was in his 20s/30s during WWII is still active in the 21st century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Originally posted by caris It is a fairly recent retcon. I think since the start of the current run of JSA, but I could definitely be wrong about it. Anywhos, it is basically an expanation of how come a so called normal who was in his 20s/30s during WWII is still active in the 21st century. OK, that's fair enough. Does it have a tactical effect? If not, it's part of his character origin, costs no points, and has no effect other than allow him to be there. It's a special effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Originally posted by assault OK, that's fair enough. Does it have a tactical effect? If not, it's part of his character origin, costs no points, and has no effect other than allow him to be there. It's a special effect. In a recent issue it had the tactical effect of allowing him to be fatally shot at least twice and still survive the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 I'd probably go with a very specific, very powerful summons for the Thunderbolt. Given the point conversion rate for summons, even with Johnny Thunderbolt being Fanatically Loyal ( and he probably isn't ), JJ wouldn't be *too* expensive, mainly since he is mostly lacking in ability aside from the summon ( and maybe some Luck ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Originally posted by Metaphysician I'd probably go with a very specific, very powerful summons for the Thunderbolt. Given the point conversion rate for summons, even with Johnny Thunderbolt being Fanatically Loyal ( and he probably isn't ), JJ wouldn't be *too* expensive, mainly since he is mostly lacking in ability aside from the summon ( and maybe some Luck ). Well, there is also the issue that you may have to also put on the Specific Person advantage. Under the strictest interpretation of the rules, you would need to have that. A GM might waive it for this case, but it isn't a gaurentee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 I agree with the general opinion here. The T Bolt is just a fanatically loyal Summoned creature probably with a level or two of difficult to dispell to express that it's Johnny will that keeps him around. I'd also build the T BOlt with a pretty honking big VPP< maybe 125 - 150 point with the limits that the Pool requires verbal commands from Johnny. As for Wildcat, it's apretty simple Healing with Resurrection adder with 8 charges...most of which the Crimson Avenger used up already. Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 The T-Bolt should also have enough defenses of all kinds to make it more or less immune to attack by anything less than a critter with an equally big VPP. . . or very specialized attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Originally posted by Twilight In a recent issue it had the tactical effect of allowing him to be fatally shot at least twice and still survive the issue. Ah, so it's nonsense then. I thought it would be. Fair enough. Just buy him some combat luck, and ignore bad writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Um, its an explicit power. Yeah, where he got it hasn't been explained, but it has been an explicit plot element twice, to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farik Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 ever since the 9 live thing was revealed I've wondered how does he know? Maybe he has hundreds of lives but hasn't broken 9 yet. I personally don't mind the 9 live development he's still a martial artist he doesn't have regeneration or anything it's the kind of plot driven power that allows him to be bold without allowing him to be stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Originally posted by Metaphysician Um, its an explicit power. Yeah, where he got it hasn't been explained, but it has been an explicit plot element twice, to date. It's an explicit power that some writer has just suddenly sucked out of their thumb, and will probably be ignored when some other writer takes the character over. In other words, it's safe to ignore it. DC seems to retcon their characters in silly ways all the time. Few of the changes seem to stick. At the very least, I can't think of too many reasons why you would bother including it in a Champions character based on Wildcat. Edit: Most likely they will take him down to his last "life" and then ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Considering that the writer who created it was Grant Morrison, and the writer who has most often used it as a plot element is Geoff Johns, it ain't getting retconned as a "stupid" development anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 I believe the nine lives was thrown in to explain why Wildcat keeps showing up after he's supposed to have been dead. (wasn't he supposidly dead when Yolanda whatshername became Wildcat II?). The reason he and the other old JSAers are still young(ish) after all these years is different -- they were affected by the fallout of someone's darkness powers (I forget which foe). That's also the reason that Obsidian (Green Lantern's son) has darkness powers. They've actually handled the "nine lives" thing with a good bit of tongue-in-cheek humor -- at one point they had Green Lantern / Sentinel doing a spittake of "He's got nine lives? Since when does he have nine lives?" It's been explained as the side effect of Zatara undoing an attempt by another sorcerer to turn Wildcat into a cat for refusing to throw a fight. Somewhat hokey, but that's the JSA for you. And implying that the writers of the JSA are willing to retcon or ignore backhistory, willy-nilly, only shows that someone hasn't been paying attention to the latest JSA run. It's actually been the book where all those awful past retcons are being fixed. So far they've rescued Hawkman, Dove, and Power Girl seems to be next on their list. Anyway. Someone know the current list of Hawkman's powers from his Nth metal harness? Flight, regeneration, past lives... Any others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Hell, after Geoff Johns managed to come up with a way to actually reconcile all the contradictory retcons of Hawkman's history into a single coherent whole, I was ready to nominate him The Continuity God. We *KNOW* what the words "continuity" and "Hawkman" used to mean, don't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Yeah-"Hawkman continuity" used to mean the same thing as "military intelligence",only worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Much love to the Geoff, but I don't think he saved Dove, he just did very wierd things with her. I'm still not really sure why Mordru ended up with her. When exactly did he grab her? After Extant snagged her from the time stream? Didn't she die? Wasn't he imprisoned then? I don't remember it ever being properly explained and I've read Geoff's entire run on JSA. Does anyone recall how she ended up in Mordru's clutches and then made to look like Lyta Hall in a coma? Her continuity was never that messed up anyway, at least until he started using her. She was dead, not too much going on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 hmmm... Maybe I'll have to go back and re-read. I'd assumed she fell into Mordru's clutches during the bit when Mordru was going around killing anyone powered by Chaos or Order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Originally posted by assault It's an explicit power that some writer has just suddenly sucked out of their thumb, and will probably be ignored when some other writer takes the character over. In other words, it's safe to ignore it. DC seems to retcon their characters in silly ways all the time. Few of the changes seem to stick. At the very least, I can't think of too many reasons why you would bother including it in a Champions character based on Wildcat. Edit: Most likely they will take him down to his last "life" and then ignore it. In other words it's an actual power for the character and has been used by two writers and referenced several times in the series and in crossovers with other characters. We'd bother to include it in a Champions write up of the character because IT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF HIS POWERS. Simple enough to figure out isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 How about something like this for Wildcat? 26 9 Lives: Duplication (creates 9 350-point Duplicates), Cannot Recombine (+0) (90 Active Points); Limited Power Only 1 Duplicate at a time (Loses one Duplicate each time used) (-1 1/2), Limited Power Only when Hero's at 0 Body (-1) As for JJ ... I'd make the T-Bolt a summoned being Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Problem: Wildcat is more than 350 points, even excluding the Nine Lives power. Very good all-around physical and mental stats, the best Boxing martial arts abilities in the world ( maneuvers, DCs, levels ), a wide smattering of various skills and knowledges, a bunch of perks and talents. He'd easily be 500 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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