Bill_CCHKK Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Gary Why didn't he just take Does Not Add to Figured Characteristics for -1/2? That was still legal in 4th Edition. Because then it would still add to skill rolls? Maybe he didn't want a 17- will all DEX-based skills. Just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Bill_CCHKK Because then it would still add to skill rolls? Maybe he didn't want a 17- will all DEX-based skills. Just a guess. But the limitation he took is more limiting than a -1/2. Perhaps not enough to get a -3/4, but it should be more than -1/4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 And yet that is the limitation he took. Could it be worth -1/2? You bet. Was it taken at -1/4? You bet. Does it matter? Not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_CCHKK Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Gary But the limitation he took is more limiting than a -1/2. Perhaps not enough to get a -3/4, but it should be more than -1/4. Huh. Yep, you're right. I dunno then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Von D-Man And yet that is the limitation he took. Could it be worth -1/2? You bet. Was it taken at -1/4? You bet. Does it matter? Not really. Since when did it have to matter, for someone to comment on some silliness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Gary Why didn't he just take Does Not Add to Figured Characteristics for -1/2? That was still legal in 4th Edition. 'cause with 700+ points, Steve didn't give a damn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Bill_CCHKK If I remember correctly, Steve posted in a similar thread one time that the Harbinger of Justice started out as a normal level character (250 points, probably, given the timeframe) and that everything that was shown in Dark Champions was accrued experience. Now *that's* scary. From his DC writeup: with all Powers, Skills, Talents and Perks factored in, HoJ weighed in at 895 points. For a street-level PC. Scary is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden From his DC writeup: with all Powers, Skills, Talents and Perks factored in, HoJ weighed in at 895 points. For a street-level PC. Scary is right. I wouldn't want to live on that street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Crimson Arrow I'm impressed he made it out of the door. I suppose lemmings are tougher than portrayed in the media. I've been collecting xp for a longer time. hah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Well, there's "street level" and then there's "street level." I don't think Harbinger was a PC in a street-level campaign per se. I think he was the "street-flavored" PC in a normal supers campaign. So I don't think he was just going up against thugs and low-powered wackos... he was going up against actual supervillains. Of course, he is still a butt-kicker par excellence. Also, I have a vague recollection of hearing that Steve's original character wasn't quite as high-powered as Harbinger is in the book, but that the Hero guys at the time asked him to beef Harbinger up to give an example of what a powerful "street type" character in a supers game could look like. (I'm not sure about this, but that's my recollection.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by lemming I've been collecting xp for a longer time. hah! I thought it was just simply one of your millions of duplicates that got zapped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Hey, in my campaign, we used to have a 750 point street level. Only power was some low-end superdex; everything else was skills, martial arts, and something resembling VIPER-X's equipment set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheImperialKhan Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 So, is Harbinger going to make it into Dark Champions this time around? Based on the blurb in "Our Products" I'd guess not, he really doesn't seem to fit very well any more. But around here you can never be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 The HoJ may make it into the supplement but as we have seen in all of the 5th Ed books, he may be drastically different than previously published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Yep, in 5e Dark Champions, it's revealed that HOJ is really Seeker. That's why he isn't in the Champions anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cubist Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by levi The HoJ may make it into the supplement but as we have seen in all of the 5th Ed books, he may be drastically different than previously published. Yes, but those characters were either altered or left out because Steve didn't like the old versions of them, whee as HoJ is Steve's baby. He may not show up in the DC genre, but I'd bet he'll show up somewhere in the 5th edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Gary I thought it was just simply one of your millions of duplicates that got zapped? We'll make more! Actually, with Supreme Serpent's comment, I think HoJ will be after different prey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by lemming Actually, with Supreme Serpent's comment, I think HoJ will be after different prey. Eh, I'm not worried - he's on the payroll. He's ACTUALLY really a VIPER hitman, taking out criminals who don't fall in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by TheImperialKhan So, is Harbinger going to make it into Dark Champions this time around? Based on the blurb in "Our Products" I'd guess not, he really doesn't seem to fit very well any more. But around here you can never be sure. I'm not sure if HoJ will make it into Dark Champions or not, but keep in mind that DC is a genre book along the lines of Fantasy Hero or Star Hero, not a campaign book. DC deals with the entire "normals" genre. Everything from SWAT teams to James Bond to low-level supers. My guess is that HoJ will make it into the Hudson City campaign book, which, IIRC, deals with the low-level supers stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Oh, the irony of putting an 800+ point individual in a setting labeled "Low level super". . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 He is referenced in the Champions Universe so it is likely we will see him. The Harbinger that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by death tribble He is referenced in the Champions Universe so it is likely we will see him. The Harbinger that is. He is?! Where? I didn't see him in the Champions Universe book itself. I used HoJ a few times in a past campaign, once as a foe for the PCs (who were much more "four color" in their ethics), and once as an (uncomfortable) ally against a common enemy. Eventually the PC heroes determined to track him down and stop him, which turned into a pretty memorable story arc. FWIW I made the secret ID of the Harbinger Donald Henderson, aka the Marksman from George MacDonald's "Guardians" campaign, a bunch of old Champions book covers, and the Champions comic-book series. The Marksman came into contact with the mystic Skull Pendant (from To Serve and Protect), which warped his desire for justice to an extreme level. The Marksman officially "retired" from superheroics before HoJ appeared on the scene. Henderson had been one of the PC team's financial backers and his company provided much of their electronic equipment, so the players were very ambivalent toward him after they finally caught him - which led to some great roleplaying. They were able to reverse the influence of the Skull Pendant on him, but Henderson still insisted on being tried for his crimes as the Harbinger. The extenuating circumstances led to him receiving a sentence of life imprisonment rather than the death penalty. BTW the Marksman's symbol was a black cross in a white circle over the heart of his uniform, I assume representing the crosshairs of a gunsight. Although it had no religious significance to the character, I rationalized that the fact that the Cross and the Crescent have been portrayed at odds so often in history inspired him to adopt the "crescent moon" for his symbol as the Harbinger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I have seen him referenced but need to dig up my books and give it a proper read. When I have it I will let you know where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden He is?! Where? I didn't see him in the Champions Universe book itself. He's mentioned in Hudson City in the sidebar on page 80. I did not include him in the Superhero pdf as I was unsure how the CU and the DCU were designed to fit together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted February 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Well, it seems from what little I know that Dark Champions *could* coincide with the Champions U, just with a different focus. The sticking point would be Hudson City, and why its so different from other cities, and lacking in public high-end superheroes. I'm sure *some* explanation could be whipped up, like a local oddity in the mana level or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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