devlin1 Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Is it legal/accepted to put a Limitation on STR that's "Only to increase Casual STR"? If so, what would it be worth? If not, why? I can imagine why, but I'd like to hear other perspectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Re: Increasing Casual STR Originally posted by devlin1 Is it legal/accepted to put a Limitation on STR that's "Only to increase Casual STR"? If so, what would it be worth? If not, why? I can imagine why, but I'd like to hear other perspectives. Im pretty sure Ive seen this before. I would call it a -2, but if it is printed it will probably be a -1 as limits on STR usually dont go below that despite all the many things that STR normally does. Of course, combined w/ No Figured, even with a -1 for the Casual Only, it would total to -1 1/2 so every 10 points of STR bought this way would cost 4 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 It should be a -2 limitation. Casual Str is one of the least important aspects of Str. Well below figured characteristics, damage, and lifting capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 I was thinking -2 myself, so it's nice to be vindicated. I'm not sure I actually want to get this for a character, but it would be handy to represent a guy who doesn't let obstacles like people and cars get in his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 I agree it's a -2, though I feel Casual STR is a bit more useful/important than Gary implies. (Shrugging off Grabs and Entangles and shouldering aside obsticals.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by devlin1 ...but it would be handy to represent a guy who doesn't let obstacles like people and cars get in his way. That's why there's a power called "Flight." I take it this is for a villain? It's hard to see anything heroic in a character who throws pedestrians and cars around just because they happen to get in his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by Trebuchet I take it this is for a villain? It's hard to see anything heroic in a character who throws pedestrians and cars around just because they happen to get in his way. It's a largely rhetorical question, actually, but yes, I wouldn't buy STR this way for a decent, law-abiding character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by devlin1 It's a largely rhetorical question, actually, but yes, I wouldn't buy STR this way for a decent, law-abiding character. Good for cutting through crowds of agents too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Nobody thinks it should be -1 1/4, -1 1/2 or -1 3/4? I bring this up merely because it's so easy to jump from 1 to 1 1/2 to 2, ignoring the other inbetween numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 That's a good point. The definition for a -2 Limitation, IIRC, is the power losing almost all of its effectiveness. Is having additional STR only for this purpose as bad having additional STR that's, say, No Conscious Control (which, in itself, has all kinds of possibilities as well)? I think not. So, upon review, I'd make it worth less. Between -1 and -1 1/2, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by Dust Raven I agree it's a -2, though I feel Casual STR is a bit more useful/important than Gary implies. (Shrugging off Grabs and Entangles and shouldering aside obsticals.) Not nearly as important as Figured Characteristics, damage, and lifting. Also, bear in mind that you need +10 str with this limitation to get +5 casual str. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by devlin1 That's a good point. The definition for a -2 Limitation, IIRC, is the power losing almost all of its effectiveness. Is having additional STR only for this purpose as bad having additional STR that's, say, No Conscious Control (which, in itself, has all kinds of possibilities as well)? I think not. So, upon review, I'd make it worth less. Between -1 and -1 1/2, IMO. Not nearly enough of a limitation. Consider if you only made it a -1 limitation: +10 str "Casual Str only". Real cost 5 pts. Or you can do this: +10 str and sell back 5 stun. Real cost 5 pts. You get the same casual str as the first, but you also get +2 PD, +2 Rec, +2" leap, +2d6 damage, and X4 lifting capacity. I would strongly consider giving it more than -2 limitation, except that -2 is as high as it ever gets under normal circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Re: Increasing Casual STR Originally posted by devlin1 Is it legal/accepted to put a Limitation on STR that's "Only to increase Casual STR"? If so, what would it be worth? Oh yeah, I guess we forgot to tell you: yes, we think it's legal but I guess ya figured that from our posts, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Re: Re: Increasing Casual STR Originally posted by Tech Oh yeah, I guess we forgot to tell you: yes, we think it's legal but I guess ya figured that from our posts, eh? Yes, thanks to my 8- in Deduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by devlin1 That's a good point. The definition for a -2 Limitation, IIRC, is the power losing almost all of its effectiveness. Is having additional STR only for this purpose as bad having additional STR that's, say, No Conscious Control (which, in itself, has all kinds of possibilities as well)? I think not. So, upon review, I'd make it worth less. Between -1 and -1 1/2, IMO. With only a -1 Limitation, Casual STR would cost the same as regular STR. Casual STR is about a half effective as normal STR, or maybe less, so should cost half as much. At -2, Casual STR costs 10 points for 15 Casual STR. In any case I'd say that only getting to use, at most, half the value for very limited uses and under restricted circumstances losing almost all of it's effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Originally posted by lemming Good for cutting through crowds of agents too. I've found swords are good for that, too! J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Originally posted by John T I've found swords are good for that, too! Yah, but you might get blood on your threads. Don't want that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Well, let's see, for a 40 STR PC, this would cost 13 extra points if it were a -2, in order to have a 40 STR at all times(casually shrugging off grabs and entangles). And you'd want to buy it at 0 END, presumably, which would make the cost more like 20 points. For 60 STR, the net cost would be 30 points. Juggernaut would be a good exemplar of someone whose casual STR could equal full STR--you'd also want to give him Knockback resistance equal to his full STR DC in inches(somewhere between 16 and 25"). theoretically, you might want to allow full STR damage on move-bys, as well. Obviously that could get abusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiekins Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 What about characters that just have more Casual STR than you would expect...? Example from my old campaigns: METALMAN... He had a 20 STR, and then got 4 levels of permanent Density Increase on top of that... I figure he would have 40 STR, but a Casual STR of 30... In 4th edition it was easy to make him, since I could just buy Density Increase Always On, and have GM Fiat declare that the STR from Density Increase added equally to STR and Casual STR... In 5th Edition, I can't do that anymore, which is why this thread interests me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 Technically, you couldn't do that in 4th either. But since you did, you can just declair you're doing it in 5th too. (Though I think most GMs would make you pay points for the ability.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxiekins Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 Except that Always Dense characters are now supposed to be built by buying the abilities the Density Increase would give them, instead of buying Density Increase itself, which calls for actually purchasing the ability in question, along with everything else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 True, but I was referring to saying the STR from Density Increase applies in full to Casual STR, which it didn't in 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 I gave it a -1 on my Juggernaut Clone. but perhaps -2 would be better? I will ponder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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