Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

[Supreme]

Cometeer, do not read!

 

OK, so many of you already know that for my upcoming Marvel Age game my main villain is a Dr. Doom/Kang type named "Dr. Omenus." Omenus uses salvaged alien technology to re-create monsters of European mythos, particularly vampires. The deal is that Omenus found a buried UFO that leaks this glowing green liquid (Omenite) that turns people into monsters. This liquid picks up energy from crystals scattered on the moon (there were two ships, one crashed on the Moon). When the Moon is overhead the Omenite crystals pick up light from the Sun and relfect it on some funky frequency (this is a Marvel Age game so I'm not trying to make the science super-convincing) which activates the Omenite in the creatures (werewolves transform, vampires rise, golems awaken).

 

For vampires, the presense of normal solar energy shuts down their consciousness and they become dead (again). Take it away, and they rise again, though the less moon light there is the more blood they'll need to keep going. Silver breaks down Omenite. Garlic thins the blood and causes the Omenite to separate. In vamps, Omenite collects in two particular places: the heart and the brain. Pierce the heart or sever the head and they die (permanently). If they look upon a symbol which, in life, they strongly associated with reverence, it causes feedback in that part of their brain and they experience severe pain and disorientation.

 

Now... why should they be unable to enter people's houses without being invited?

[TheEmerged]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

I see two directions to go with this one.

 

#1> The reverence issue. If the house has been properly blessed (such as having one of those "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" plaques from Home Interior/the flea market) they can't enter it

 

#2> Resonance. So much psychic energy is spent in a house that unless they are welcomed "as part of it" the feedback causes damage to their true nature. Or perhaps the background "psychic radiation" reminds them too much of what they've lost.

[Supreme]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

I see two directions to go with this one.

 

#1> The reverence issue. If the house has been properly blessed (such as having one of those "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" plaques from Home Interior/the flea market) they can't enter it

 

#2> Resonance. So much psychic energy is spent in a house that unless they are welcomed "as part of it" the feedback causes damage to their true nature. Or perhaps the background "psychic radiation" reminds them too much of what they've lost.

Interesting suggestions. However, I'm trying to avoid the idea that normal people generate significant amounts of psychic energy. Also, most houses aren't blessed, especially in modern times (the game is set in 1961).

[Vanguard00]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Simple psychological blocks in a similar vein to the "items of reverence". In their subconscious they know it's not their home and it's an invasion of sorts, so they cannot enter without encountering more of the pain and disorientation derived from the feedback you mentioned.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Interesting suggestions. However' date=' I'm trying to avoid the idea that normal people generate significant amounts of psychic energy. Also, most houses aren't blessed, especially in modern times (the game is set in 1961).[/quote']

 

Fair enough, I missed the 1961 reference. Don't discount the blessing one though, maybe you just need a much looser definition of blessing

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

How about the issue of running water? Aren't vampires harmed by it or, at least, unable to cross it?

[Pegasus]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Now... why should they be unable to enter people's houses without being invited?

 

Maybe they have Omenite fueled good manners?

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Now... why should they be unable to enter people's houses without being invited?

 

There is a very good reason for that. Omenite-empowered creatures sometimes experience unexplained power drains especially in enclosed spaces (probably related to the moonlight being blocked in some rooms).

 

Because of these momentary weaknesses, they have learned not to enter places without being invited, lest they become trapped and weak in unfriendly area. Preferable with a blood doner nearby.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Interesting, and I love the unscience of it!

 

Personally, I'd go ahead and say that all those myths about supernatural creatures that can't be easily explained though omenite are just that. Myths. Added folklore passed down through the generations just because a single individual acted in a particular way (such as the serial killer vampire who would not enter a home without being invited, and therefore only kill those foolish enough to trust him). You can go ahead and make the fake myths part of the game, and leave it to the players to figure out what works and what doesn't.

 

Or you can use the ultimate GM tool. Let your players figure it out and tell you. Just leave out some of the essential explinations, and make sure that vamps can't enter a home unless invited. Sooner or later, some inquisitive and inventive player will have some theories he'd like to test out concerning why. Pick the one you like and congratulate your player on his cunning brilliance for "figuring out" one of the secrets of how omenite really works.

[Supreme]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

There is a very good reason for that. Omenite-empowered creatures sometimes experience unexplained power drains especially in enclosed spaces (probably related to the moonlight being blocked in some rooms).

 

Because of these momentary weaknesses, they have learned not to enter places without being invited, lest they become trapped and weak in unfriendly area. Preferable with a blood doner nearby.

I thought of that, but my main reservation there is that they'll never be able fight indoors. Also, they'll never be able to go to sleep indoors.

How about the issue of running water? Aren't vampires harmed by it or' date=' at least, unable to cross it?[/quote']

They're not supposed to be able to cross it (a very common element of folklore for evil, or unclean creatures to be able to cross running water). If I say that the Omenite rays are at the low end of the spectrum, then they shouldn't be able to penetrate water (correct my science if I'm wrong). Thus jumping into water with a current which could push you down would be a BAD idea for one of these things.

Or you can use the ultimate GM tool. Let your players figure it out and tell you.

Tempting. I'll have to leave a brain circuit open for that. Of course when it comes to science, I'm the "it" guy of the group. Still they might come up with something good.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Interesting, and I love the unscience of it!

 

Personally, I'd go ahead and say that all those myths about supernatural creatures that can't be easily explained though omenite are just that. Myths. Added folklore passed down through the generations just because a single individual acted in a particular way (such as the serial killer vampire who would not enter a home without being invited, and therefore only kill those foolish enough to trust him). You can go ahead and make the fake myths part of the game, and leave it to the players to figure out what works and what doesn't.

 

Or you can use the ultimate GM tool. Let your players figure it out and tell you. Just leave out some of the essential explinations, and make sure that vamps can't enter a home unless invited. Sooner or later, some inquisitive and inventive player will have some theories he'd like to test out concerning why. Pick the one you like and congratulate your player on his cunning brilliance for "figuring out" one of the secrets of how omenite really works.

So you're one of those sneaky GM's eh? I like it.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

So you're one of those sneaky GM's eh? I like it.

I'm not sneaky! I'm resourceful, and I mean it each and every time I tell my players that my campaign world is as much their's as it is my own .

 

Okay, maybe I am sneaky. I do the same thing with plots. I like to run complex adventure riddled with sub-plots and intrigues and it's a lot to keep track of. So when I player suddenly gets all excited, jumping up and down as something just dawns on him, who am I to tell him he's wrong? Especially if what he came up with is probably just as good as, if not better, than anything I would have and likely forgot half way through.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Supreme, if you were still using nanobots as the cause for these creatures rather than chemicals, you could say that the 'bots were originally programmed to infiltrate and subvert a new planet by stealthily infecting the populace; hence they try to gain the trust of those in a new location rather than forcing themselves upon them. That's harder to justify with Omenite being purely chemical, though.

 

Now, you do realize that Bram Stoker made up a lot of the "vampire lore" in Dracula out of his own imagination, right? I'm with Dust Raven; there's no need to keep to every detail of the popular conception of vampires for the ones in your game, especially since you've given them a completely different origin from the folkloric one. From using vampires in various games of mine, I can assert that it makes them much more dangerous and frightening if the PCs don't know everything about their natures and weaknesses - or if they think they do, but find out at the last minute that they're wrong.

 

I do have to point out that you've already taken some liberties with even the popular notions of vampires and werewolves. Vampires are supposed to arise three days after being drained of blood by another vamp; the presence of the moon doesn't influence the interval, or their need to feed. Silver adversely affects werewolves, but not vampires; garlic affects vampires, but werewolves are vulnerable to wolfsbane. There's nothing wrong with making such changes, of course, but then why stop there?

[Supreme]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Supreme, if you were still using nanobots as the cause for these creatures rather than chemicals, you could say that the 'bots were originally programmed to infiltrate and subvert a new planet by stealthily infecting the populace; hence they try to gain the trust of those in a new location rather than forcing themselves upon them. That's harder to justify with Omenite being purely chemical, though.

 

Now, you do realize that Bram Stoker made up a lot of the "vampire lore" in Dracula out of his own imagination, right? I'm with Dust Raven; there's no need to keep to every detail of the popular conception of vampires for the ones in your game, especially since you've given them a completely different origin from the folkloric one. From using vampires in various games of mine, I can assert that it makes them much more dangerous and frightening if the PCs don't know everything about their natures and weaknesses - or if they think they do, but find out at the last minute that they're wrong.

 

I do have to point out that you've already taken some liberties with even the popular notions of vampires and werewolves. Vampires are supposed to arise three days after being drained of blood by another vamp; the presence of the moon doesn't influence the interval, or their need to feed. Silver adversely affects werewolves, but not vampires; garlic affects vampires, but werewolves are vulnerable to wolfsbane. There's nothing wrong with making such changes, of course, but then why stop there?

Trouble with the nanobots is that they are not period appropriate. I'm concerning myself more with flavor than good science. The other problem is that the aliens whose ship crashed on Earth, are not part of an invasion or subversion. They showed up 10,000 YA to study a planet undergoing and ice-age and their unmanned ship crashed.

 

Now I know that I am already diverting from vampire lore significantly (though I wasn't aware that Stoker diverted that much himself, I'd thought he'd done a lot of research through 50+ trips to the Carpathians). I'm picking and choosing the parts of the lore that suit the game. When it comes to vampires, I feel that the inhibition against entering uninvited made the most sense because that forces them to stalk people on the streets at night (especially in modern times when people don't have blessed homes, or crosses on the door, or garlic hanging in the windows).

 

If I can't really make it work with a "good" explanation, I'll probably just kick it loose.

 

What I really need is something that makes it impossible for them to invade a persons home, but not impossible for them to invade a PC's lab, which I plan for them to do later. I can't wait for that. I'm going to reveal to him that there appears to be some sort of chemical in vampire blood which responds to some form of background radiation. When he attempts to scan for that chemical I'll say, "Well, you've got the scanner going, but... this can't be right. If these readings were right then there'd be at least a dozen of those things in the building with you right now..." Sort of a "the call is coming from inside the house!" kind of thing.

[Blue]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

I made a character for a V&V game (that never materialized) that was a vampire, only not. The character had been created by a sort of "ultimate sportsman" as something to hunt because he'd grown bored with animals, etc. So he used his massive wealth to convert someone of exceptional intelligence into a worthy adversary, complete with a bio-chemical imbalance that made them crave blood, and retractable metal fangs. He dressed in Victorian hunting gear and hunted the character across the globe.

 

The rest of the character's behaviors that mimicked vampiric behavior were mostly hardwired in (Being partly mechanical).

 

I guess what I'm saying is that if Dr. Omenus created them in the way he did because he had an affinity for this sort of mythical creature, then perhaps he's purposely conditioned his charges in that way. He may have even lobotomized, psychologicaly conditioned, programed, or chemically altered them to meet these exact needs.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

I'm not sure if this is what Blue was getting at, but...

 

How about just have it be an unwritten "vampire law"? Kinda like the mafia not making a hit on someone in their own home. The vamps are perfectly capable of entering a home uninvited, and they often do, but it's against their "code" to feed that way.

 

Where could such a code come from? Maybe the omenite makes them crazy. Maybe the good doctor watched too many B movies and demands his creations act in certain ways. Maybe his first creations watched too many B movies and just think that's what they are, and they pass this knowledge on to the next generation and it becomes a well known restriction that doesn't exist. Maybe once a vamp enterd the wrong house and a giant cross fell on him and every other vamp heard about it and, but only heard that he went in uninvited and was instatly killed. Maybe lots of stuff, but I'm leaning toward the science of human nature rather than alien chemistry.

[Supreme]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

I thought I should also add something. A lot of you are coming up with good ideas about the vamps being programmed. Unfortunately, I have a built-in theme about that with the vampires. They are supposed to be very hard to control. Omenus' minions are a spectrum of control vs power. The easiest to control, the golems, are the least powerful, whereas the hardest to control are the werewolves who are also the most powerful. The vampires, are very hard to control but Omenus can make deals with them. Though he creates them, they operate essentially as independant contractors.

[Bengal]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

There were people though, right? Before they became vampires? Every person knows (or enough of us do) that vampires can't enter dwellings, are harmed by running water, and so on. Only by trial and error could those persons transformed into vampires learn otherwise. Perhaps they will obey vampire law as if it were actual natural law at the beginning; only the most cunning among them will be able to muster up sufficient confidence to test these theories and find them lacking. Which means by adventure 2 or 3, you could easily have some of them inside a lab, whereas most vampires still wouldn't think of doing it since as everybody "knows", they simply can't.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

A problem with vampires in a Marvel Age game is that the walking dead were banned by the Comics Code at that time.

 

From the 1954 Comics Code General Standards Part B:

Scenes dealing with, or instruments associated with walking dead, torture, vampires and vampirism, ghouls, cannibalism and werewolfism are prohibited.

 

The comics code was relaxed in 1971, opening the door for stuff like Werewolf By Night and Blade the Vampire Slayer.

[Bengal]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

A problem with vampires in a Marvel Age game is that the walking dead were banned by the Comics Code at that time.

 

From the 1954 Comics Code General Standards Part B:

 

 

The comics code was relaxed in 1971, opening the door for stuff like Werewolf By Night and Blade the Vampire Slayer.

 

 

I poop in your shoe! Vampires are fun, so I think they should be allowed.

[zornwil]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Cometeer, do not read!

 

OK, so many of you already know that for my upcoming Marvel Age game my main villain is a Dr. Doom/Kang type named "Dr. Omenus." Omenus uses salvaged alien technology to re-create monsters of European mythos, particularly vampires. The deal is that Omenus found a buried UFO that leaks this glowing green liquid (Omenite) that turns people into monsters. This liquid picks up energy from crystals scattered on the moon (there were two ships, one crashed on the Moon). When the Moon is overhead the Omenite crystals pick up light from the Sun and relfect it on some funky frequency (this is a Marvel Age game so I'm not trying to make the science super-convincing) which activates the Omenite in the creatures (werewolves transform, vampires rise, golems awaken).

 

For vampires, the presense of normal solar energy shuts down their consciousness and they become dead (again). Take it away, and they rise again, though the less moon light there is the more blood they'll need to keep going. Silver breaks down Omenite. Garlic thins the blood and causes the Omenite to separate. In vamps, Omenite collects in two particular places: the heart and the brain. Pierce the heart or sever the head and they die (permanently). If they look upon a symbol which, in life, they strongly associated with reverence, it causes feedback in that part of their brain and they experience severe pain and disorientation.

 

Now... why should they be unable to enter people's houses without being invited?

Here's a weird idea - Omenite is actually a biological substance, even sentient. It understands the interactions of its host bodies on an elemental level, at least. It exerts little control on the host body although one area it does control is "invitational entry". The Omenite beings have a fear of going into private spaces due to an archaic religious/spiritual belief about souls, etc., it's a superstition. It's why powerful vampires can enter domiciles, they accumulate enough of their own power to overrule the Omenite or they've even become one with it and make decisions with the Omenite.

 

However, my explanation in my own games is that it's the way in which DNA mutations are affected by unconscious human control which reinforce the myths in the way they shape the DNA.

[Bengal]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

Here's a weird idea - Omenite is actually a biological substance, even sentient. It understands the interactions of its host bodies on an elemental level, at least. It exerts little control on the host body although one area it does control is "invitational entry". The Omenite beings have a fear of going into private spaces due to an archaic religious/spiritual belief about souls, etc., it's a superstition. It's why powerful vampires can enter domiciles, they accumulate enough of their own power to overrule the Omenite or they've even become one with it and make decisions with the Omenite.

 

However, my explanation in my own games is that it's the way in which DNA mutations are affected by unconscious human control which reinforce the myths in the way they shape the DNA.

 

 

This is very Marvel- if not very Silver Age. In the X maxiseries trilogy, it is the dormant Celestial Seed which is germinated by traumatic events, radiation, or other strange phenomena which awakens superpowers in an individual. If you take that as a baseline, it makes sense that creatures created to be a certain thing would act like that thing (eg a vampire superhuman wouldd act like a vampire is supposed to act) even if it's hard to come up with a physical reason for it to be so.

 

On a not entirely unrelated note:

 

Clever players will tell you why a thing is as it is. Lay out the clues, and let them jump to their own conclusion.

[Supreme]

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

 

A problem with vampires in a Marvel Age game is that the walking dead were banned by the Comics Code at that time.

 

From the 1954 Comics Code General Standards Part B:

 

The comics code was relaxed in 1971, opening the door for stuff like Werewolf By Night and Blade the Vampire Slayer.

The Comics Code also prohibited the military from being shown in an "unfavorable light" yet who did the Hulk fight every month? Marvel, even in the 60s, paid little attention to the Comics Code.