Is this Munchkinish?

[SuperBlue]

an NPC Villain I've been working on (Named Gate cuz she can open up wormholes) can use her Wormhole ability to punch people at long distance through a wormhole.

 

I've heard of using Stretching with "Does not cross intermediate distance" but what about just creating Naked Advantages "Ranged" and "Indirect" for Martial Arts? Would those not create the same effect? I think the results would be better because Stretching is limited by Turnmode and Distance, while opening small "gates" would not be... so it would be closer to the SFX of her powers to use Ranged and Indirect.

 

Any ideas?

[JJR]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

I would buy the ranged and indirect on the characters strength not on the martial arts themselves. It would cost more endurance but would make for an interesting special effect.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

I would buy the ranged and indirect on the characters strength not on the martial arts themselves. It would cost more endurance but would make for an interesting special effect.

the only problem here is that FRED specifically states that STR usable at range should not be used and Telekinesis should be used in its place. And I believe that stretching already is considered indirect anyway.

[tesuji]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

Pay for naked advantage on the dice of damage you would be doing at the most... not on strength and not on the maneuvers.

 

So if your biggest attack were say 12d6, you would buy a +1/2 range for 30 pts and the indirect at whatever level seemed to fit... +1/2 seems about right.

 

So for 60 pts, you could throw any martial arts attack up to 12d6 thru the indirect and ranged window.

 

Now, if you want to open the gate, reach thru and grab and drag them back... thats more like a teleport usable as attack with full phase and "requires successful grab" limitations.

 

an NPC Villain I've been working on (Named Gate cuz she can open up wormholes) can use her Wormhole ability to punch people at long distance through a wormhole.

 

I've heard of using Stretching with "Does not cross intermediate distance" but what about just creating Naked Advantages "Ranged" and "Indirect" for Martial Arts? Would those not create the same effect? I think the results would be better because Stretching is limited by Turnmode and Distance, while opening small "gates" would not be... so it would be closer to the SFX of her powers to use Ranged and Indirect.

 

Any ideas?

[JJR]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

the only problem here is that FRED specifically states that STR usable at range should not be used and Telekinesis should be used in its place. And I believe that stretching already is considered indirect anyway.

I would just use the stretching myself. You gain the velocity damage from it too. Buying strength with indirect and ranged is just easier than trying to buy it on each martial arts maneuver.

[Blue]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

When you say "At a long distance" are we still talking Line of Sight?

 

I was thinking it could be a simple Energy Blast, physical, Indirect, LoS, with a special effect that the character is punching through a gate.

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

...but what about just creating Naked Advantages "Ranged" and "Indirect" for Martial Arts? Would those not create the same effect?

 

Yes, it would, and yes it would be 'munchkinism'. Martial Arts attacks all rely on STR of one sort or another, you'd at least have to have to give the same Naked Advantages to it.

 

However, I'm really with Blue on this one. This is really a question of "What's the effect?" The effect is that she can strike people at range without passing through the intervening space. That's an Indirect EB. Buy the EB up to the max dice thrown by your Martial Art strikes and have a party. If that's the only effect you want.

 

Now, I don't have my book in front of me, but a case might be made for Indirect Stretching (however that would be bought). I like this more, because you can do some of the tricks only allowed with Martial Arts - like 'Target Falls' and the NND attacks and the modifications to your OCV and DCV. I also like it because the effect could be neutralized by a standard block and might be considered Hand To Hand combat as opposed to Ranged. Trying to duplicate all of this with some kind of Wormhole Martial Arts Multipower with appropriate limitations and skill levels would be an intersting challenge (...wheels turning...) but the simplicity of the Stretching solution is just cleaner. I don't know if it's 'right' or the most 'legal', though. (Maybe if you make her buy Indirect on her STR as well as the Stretching...)

 

In the end, she's an NPC in a game you're running. Do what you want.

 

ooh look...post 100! That only took me 16 months. At this rate I'll reach 1000 posts by the Summer of 2016.

[Zed-F]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

My take would also be stretching bought with "Does not cross intervening space" is the cleanest solution for short range, and TK or an indirect EB for long range.

[Old Man]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

Wouldn't Hand Attack with +1/2 Ranged work too? or am I smoking purple haze?

[Lightray]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

However' date=' I'm really with Blue on this one. This is really a question of "What's the effect?" The effect is that she can strike people at range without passing through the intervening space. That's an Indirect EB. Buy the EB up to the max dice thrown by your Martial Art strikes and have a party. If that's the only effect you want.[/quote']

Actually, the effect is "ability to punch people at long distance through a wormhole". Sounds like Gate's hand is going to be where the punching is occurring.

 

So, if she punches Amazing Burnination Guy, her hand will be where his Damage Shield is. With an Indirect EB construct, that doesn't happen (although, the player might prefer this...). It does happen with a Stretching construct, or with a Naked Advantage(s) Ranged + Indirect construct.

 

With Stretching you've got limits on your range. You could expand that by using noncombat stretching, but probably not. On the other hand, this construct would give you no range modifiers.

 

With the Naked Advantage route you've got the range, but you also have the range modifiers. And it's gonna be expensive. Of course, you could also add in more Naked Advantages for Line of Sight, No Range Modifier, etc...

[SuperBlue]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

Thanks for the info... but after looking over the concept (and the points involved) I've decided to alter Gate to be more of an Energy Projector and Teleporter than a Martial Artist and Teleporter.

 

I figure by putting all of her powers in a multipower and having the following powers, I can get the desired effect:

 

Stop Attacks (Missile Reflection with Indirect) - a gate absorbs a ranged attack and fires it at someone else.

 

Going bye-bye (Teleport with Usable against others, Ranged, and AoE - 1 Hex, also prolly put in extra mass for Bricks...)

 

Dimensional Distortion (RKA with an AoE).

 

Also add in a couple of different Teleports (Extra Mass, AoE, etc).

 

Redirecting Damage - High ED Force Feild, the SFX is she's using wormholes to absorb some of the energy.

 

Stuff like that.

[SuperBlue]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

I just had a thought... how would I build a power where a "Gate" would allow people to see what's on the other side? For walls and stuff I could use N-Ray... would Clairesentience w/ Usable by others work?

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

However' date=' I'm really with Blue on this one. This is really a question of "What's the effect?" The effect is that she can strike people at range without passing through the intervening space. That's an Indirect EB. Buy the EB up to the max dice thrown by your Martial Art strikes and have a party. If that's the only effect you want.[/quote']Actually, the effect is "ability to punch people at long distance through a wormhole". Sounds like Gate's hand is going to be where the punching is occurring.

 

So, if she punches Amazing Burnination Guy, her hand will be where his Damage Shield is. With an Indirect EB construct, that doesn't happen...

 

Absolutely true, and, in fact, something I covered in the very next paragraph of my post. There are a lot of things you can do with Martial Arts that you cannot do with an EB. However, here's an easy solution if you just want to do Normal Damage (Martial, Basic and Offensive) Strikes through a 'wormhole':

 

 

Wormhole Punch: 10d6 EB Physical, Indirect, (additional advantages here), Up to amount of dice for Martial Attack being thrown (-0), Treated as a Hand to Hand Attack: can be blocked, Gate takes Damage Shield damage, etc. (-3/4).

 

Of course that last limitation value can be debated, that's just my take. No, I don't know how much it would cost. That's what the book is for.

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

I just had a thought... how would I build a power where a "Gate" would allow people to see what's on the other side? For walls and stuff I could use N-Ray... would Clairesentience w/ Usable by others work?

 

That seems to be a good way to do it. I definitely would go with Clairsentience. It is exactly what you want. How to give everyone with LOS on the 'hole' the ability to see as well is the kicker. No book in front of me here, but Usable by Others seems the most plausible answer, but I really can't come up with any other options.

 

EDIT: Anyone got either of the Fantasy Hero Grimoires? How do they handle scrying? Crystal Balls and the like? I'd definitely look at those resources for an example. Maybe even FH has an example. I'll look when I get home.

[Lightray]

Most of the Divination spells in Fantasy Grimoire are built around Clairsentience. There're a few Detects thrown in as well, but to different purpose. Dunno if Fantasy Hero does it any differently.

 

In my campaign we've got a student in the "superhuman school" who turns things invisible (mostly, his skin). I just gave him N-Ray Vision, Affected As Sight, Area of Effect - 1 hex, Nonselective. Because, really, 12 pts. is enough to pay for a power that's more flavor than devastating effect.

 

It does still leave the wall in place. Our gates that can be seen through and fired through just use the Gate +1/2 advantage, whether they're Teleport or Extradimensional Movement. I'd see no harm in applying that to Clarisentience (so everyone on either side can see through).

 

edit: oops, me no good at maths. 12 pts, not 30 pts!

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

Maybe even FH has an example. I'll look when I get home.

 

FH has a Scrying Mirror on p112. Clairsentience (Sight), Increased Range, Usable Simultaneously by up to 8 (and a few lims specific to a mirror). Pretty much how you'd postulated, SuperBlue. I'd go with it.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

I just had a thought... how would I build a power where a "Gate" would allow people to see what's on the other side? For walls and stuff I could use N-Ray... would Clairesentience w/ Usable by others work?

The Teleportation Gate from FREd would do exactly this, and would also allow travel to and from the location viewed (and allow anyone on the other side to see back.

 

If you didn't want anyone in the area to see back, and you didn't mind not being able to use the gate for travel, you could buy Clairsentience.

 

If you buy Clairsentience, you could just buy it AE: Cone Nonselective. The gate would be in the first hex, and anyone in the area is close enough and at a good angle to see through it. Or you could just buy Clairsentience, put a +1/2 Usable Simultaneously and just say anyone close enough can look through.

[caris]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

Another possibility might be Linked Images that can only show what would be visible from the Gate.

[Simon]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

Actually, one thing to note is that purchasing Ranged and Indirect on the character's Martial Arts would be MORE expensive than purchasing Stretching.

 

You need to remember the rules for applying Advantages to Maneuver: you take into account the overall "Active Cost" of the Maneuver, not the Maneuver's cost.

 

To apply Ranged and Indirect (any direction, any location) to just Basic Strike makes Basic Strike cost 34 points.

 

To apply Ranged and Indirect (any direction, any location) to a reasonable group of offensive Maneuvers that amount to 10 points (the minimum purchase for Martial Arts), you end up in the vicinity of 130+ points.

 

The Maneuvers would also cost END to use at this point....unless you further Advantage them by purchasing Reduced END on the group as well.

 

So no, I would not call it "Munchkinish"

[Sylevus]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

What about an EB, Indirect with a -1/4 limitation that your hand is really there? Then things like a damage shield or an entangle in the area could come into play. Just my two cents worth.

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

You need to remember the rules for applying Advantages to Maneuver: you take into account the overall "Active Cost" of the Maneuver' date=' not the Maneuver's cost.[/quote']

 

Duh. I forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder, Dan. I guess 125 points for '20" Stretching, Doesn't cross intervening space (+1/4)' is fairly feasible. Even a similar (maybe even less) amount for the Wormhole Kung Fu Multipower.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is this Munchkinish?

 

What about an EB' date=' Indirect with a -1/4 limitation that your hand is really there? Then things like a damage shield or an entangle in the area could come into play. Just my two cents worth.[/quote']

I like this method, though it still wouldn't allow some of the effects of HTH maneuvers (like grabs, disarms, and throws). It might be good in a multipower with Stretching. The EB can hit targets that are much further away, but you can only use the finesse maneuvers (NND, throw, disarm, etc) on targets within a closer range (that of the Sretching).