Weakest Supers in books you've read?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Double-Header was a member of the Legion of Substitute Heroes' Auxilary. His 'power' was... he had two heads. (As the mighty Ambush Bug put it' date=' "Yecchhh. I hope they never put [i']that[/i] one in the Tunnel of Love!")

 

This definitely makes him the leading contender here, although the Subs as a whole, and the 'Auxilary' in particular, all deserve a nomination.

 

 

Speaking of nominations, has anyone mentioned Howard the Duck?

 

Hmmm...Arm Fall Off Lad? His "power" was his arm would fall off on command so he could use it as a club. [At least Double Header could stand watch all night, alternating which head would sleep...]

 

AndHoward was, IIRC, a crack shot and a master of Quack Fu - clearly a powerhouse in his own right compared to the Sub's.

[AngryBug]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

AndHoward was' date=' IIRC, a crack shot and a master of Quack Fu - clearly a powerhouse in his own right compared to the Sub's.[/quote']

 

True, true...

I think the Subs have this category locked up. I always liked Chlorophyll Kid, who could make plants grow faster... or slower!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

True, true...

I think the Subs have this category locked up. I always liked Chlorophyll Kid, who could make plants grow faster... or slower!

 

Color Kid - changing colors of objects is clearly THE power for saving innocents and defeating villains.

[Lightray]

Color Kid - changing colors of objects is clearly THE power for saving innocents and defeating villains.

A lot of the Subs had more power than you'd think.

 

Color Kid once changed enough green kryptonite to ring Earth (like Saturn) blue. Not much of a benefit ('cept to Superboy and Supergirl), but that's a heck of an area effect.

 

Once he "grew up" he learned to create a psychodelic-type field of crazy shifting colors -- kind of like a big Continuous AoE Flash (or maybe Darkness...).

 

Remember he has planetary scale? So, he can essentially blind an entire planet. It may not be up to the mutant power to translate languages, but he's no Arm-Fall-Off Boy.

[Twilight]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Color Kid - changing colors of objects is clearly THE power for saving innocents and defeating villains.

 

It is if the villains are mind controlled members of the Green Lantern Corps. Also by changing the colour of the entire eye to solid black would blind a person, if I'm not mistaken. Don't see why people are down on folks like Polar Boy though. Heck in the Great Darkness Saga, Polar Boy flash froze a Daxamite!

[RobCRogers]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Possibly the weakest team member I've ever seen in a comic book: Cypher' date=' from the New Mutants. for reference: http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/c/cypher.htm

 

He can translate. I especially love their description of why he's a mutant and not somebody who's just studied a whole lot. 'Really, he's powerful! Why don't you believe me? Where are you going?'

 

Any other votes? I wasn't counting characters out of things like Watchmen, which only featured one 'real' super hero.

 

-B

The fact that Cypher wasn't a combat monster (or combat anything, really) was the whole point of the character. He was the "everyman" in the New Mutants--a point-of-view character for the readers to identify with. He was there to ground the team, not to be "powerful." Obviously, some people (including Louise Simonson, the writer who killed him off) didn't get that.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Didn't Polar Boy eventually make the Legion? He's clearly no candidate for this contest.

 

Stone Boy, on the other hand ought to at least get a mention. His ability to transform himself into solid stone is somewhat powerful, even if his stone form isn't impervious to damage, simply resistant.

 

Of course, the drawback associated with always being unconscious when your power is active leaves quite a bit to be desired. The amount of villainy you can overcome while unconscious is pretty limited.

 

I figure antennae lad can be replaced with a police scanner (or other high tech equivalent) Double Header, not so convenient, unless you have a spare head lying around.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

OK. I may be wrong about Ant-man. However, I still want to make a case. If I remember, Ant-man could not grow when he first started. The Giant-Man thing came later. I believe in response to the wimpiness of the character. The Atom can shrink to almost infinite smallness. Back in the day, they used to have him shrink down to sub-atomic sizes and interact with atomic particles. To my knowledge, Ant-man does not regularly shrink beyond ant-sized. If he does, it is for plot purposes. Atom can enter your body and do all kinds of nasty things. I am not sure Ant-man could pull that off. I don't remember seeing that. Maybe he could do the inner ear thing, but I doubt it. I saw the Ultimates version of the Wasp enter the Hulk's brain, but I didn't buy into it. It seemed beyond her normal range of shrinking ability. I think Yellowjacket was a response to the wimpiness of the Ant-man concept, just as Giant-man was. They gave him the Energy Blast to go with the shrinking and insect control to beef him up. Now, they said that he had the full strength of a man at ant-size, but that's not enough to make him less than wimpy, as a super-hero, IMHO.

 

 

 

http://www.toonopedia.com/antman.htm

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Ummm....Excuse me! Matter Eater Lad/Tenzil Kem a weak super!

 

Fall on you your knees and beg for my forgiveness.

 

No takers?

 

That's fine.

 

Actually RobCRodgers hit the nail on the head with the Cypher and I think MEL argument. Each exists to fill a needed role of humanity in the comic. MEL is even actually considered a fair hand to hand combatant. Cypher was essentially drafted by the New Mutants to talk to Warlock, but like many said Doug Ramsey was a pivotal character in the New Mutants storyline.

 

Weak is only in the eye of the beholder. As a character Doug is powerful...and remember that he is even a character in death as his legacy lives on as it were.

 

To me weak characters are those conceptualized from the Liefield model, codename ill defined powers and attitude. But that is all that is there!

 

Those are the weakest superheroes!

 

Hawksmoor

[ch0wyunf47]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Weak is only in the eye of the beholder. As a character Doug is powerful...and remember that he is even a character in death as his legacy lives on as it were.

 

To me weak characters are those conceptualized from the Liefield model, codename ill defined powers and attitude. But that is all that is there!

 

Those are the weakest superheroes!

 

Hawksmoor

 

I by no means think that characters like Cable were not weak characters; I was referring to their powers/abilities, and Cypher had always stuck out in my mind as someone who got the short end of the stick on the powers end.

 

I am now leaning towards Double Header as the "winner".

 

-B

[JmOz]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

OK. I may be wrong about Ant-man. However, I still want to make a case. If I remember, Ant-man could not grow when he first started. The Giant-Man thing came later. I believe in response to the wimpiness of the character. The Atom can shrink to almost infinite smallness. Back in the day, they used to have him shrink down to sub-atomic sizes and interact with atomic particles. To my knowledge, Ant-man does not regularly shrink beyond ant-sized. If he does, it is for plot purposes. Atom can enter your body and do all kinds of nasty things. I am not sure Ant-man could pull that off. I don't remember seeing that. Maybe he could do the inner ear thing, but I doubt it. I saw the Ultimates version of the Wasp enter the Hulk's brain, but I didn't buy into it. It seemed beyond her normal range of shrinking ability. I think Yellowjacket was a response to the wimpiness of the Ant-man concept, just as Giant-man was. They gave him the Energy Blast to go with the shrinking and insect control to beef him up. Now, they said that he had the full strength of a man at ant-size, but that's not enough to make him less than wimpy, as a super-hero, IMHO.

 

 

 

http://www.toonopedia.com/antman.htm

 

All I can say for certain is that Giant Man appeared in Avengers #2, which was 40 some years ago...

[RobCRogers]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Actually RobCRodgers hit the nail on the head with the Cypher and I think MEL argument. Each exists to fill a needed role of humanity in the comic. MEL is even actually considered a fair hand to hand combatant. Cypher was essentially drafted by the New Mutants to talk to Warlock, but like many said Doug Ramsey was a pivotal character in the New Mutants storyline.

 

Weak is only in the eye of the beholder. As a character Doug is powerful...and remember that he is even a character in death as his legacy lives on as it were.[/Quote]

Thanks, Hawksmoor. Well put. Well, except for the whole misspelling my name thing.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

OK. I may be wrong about Ant-man. However' date=' I still want to make a case. If I remember, Ant-man could not grow when he first started. The Giant-Man thing came later. I believe in response to the wimpiness of the character. The Atom can shrink to almost infinite smallness. Back in the day, they used to have him shrink down to sub-atomic sizes and interact with atomic particles. To my knowledge, Ant-man does not regularly shrink beyond ant-sized. If he does, it is for plot purposes. Atom can enter your body and do all kinds of nasty things. I am not sure Ant-man could pull that off. I don't remember seeing that. Maybe he could do the inner ear thing, but I doubt it. I saw the Ultimates version of the Wasp enter the Hulk's brain, but I didn't buy into it. It seemed beyond her normal range of shrinking ability. I think Yellowjacket was a response to the wimpiness of the Ant-man concept, just as Giant-man was. They gave him the Energy Blast to go with the shrinking and insect control to beef him up. Now, they said that he had the full strength of a man at ant-size, but that's not enough to make him less than wimpy, as a super-hero, IMHO. [/quote']

 

He was "just Ant-Man", no ability to grow, for a brief period, up to about Avengers #1.

 

There's another thread around here somewhere that comments on how powerful Ant-Man's communication with ants was as an info-gathering tool, so he holds the distinction of being both over powered and underpowered according to the Boards.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Didn't Polar Boy eventually make the Legion? He's clearly no candidate for this contest.

 

He did, and he's not a candidate IMO.

 

Stone Boy' date=' on the other hand ought to at least get a mention. His ability to transform himself into solid stone is somewhat powerful, even if his stone form isn't impervious to damage, simply resistant.[/quote']

 

Stone Boy was offered Legion membership at one time and turned it down. Mind you, that was when they still had Bouncing Boy, another runner up though I can't see him winning this contest.

 

I figure antennae lad can be replaced with a police scanner (or other high tech equivalent) Double Header' date=' not so convenient, unless you have a spare head lying around.[/quote']

 

I forgot about Antenna Lad! But hey, he could tap into more secret radio frequencies, so there's some potential ultility there.

[Pegasus]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

There have only been a couple characters whose powers had me saying "Ooh! That would be the coolest power to have in real life!"

 

Two of them were Cypher and Matter Eater Lad. Cypher got me slightly interested in the New Mutants. Then they killed him. I really just don't get that one. Enormous potential obliterated.

 

As for weak powers, we used to joke about a character whose only mutant power was that he didn't show up on mutant detectors.

[Chuckg]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Hey, No Girl's power was to not exist.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Actually Cypher had a great power -- it was the writers that dropped the ball on that one.

 

The ability to instantly comprehend any "language" has so many ramifications that it would take a much smarter person than I to catalouge all of them.

 

Cypher could have been the most dangerous man alive with the proper writer.

 

 

Things Cypher should have been capable of:

 

He could have been the worlds greatest mathmetician, physicist, engineer, computer programmer, geneticist, chemist, and linguist ever.

 

He should have been a greater scientist than Reed Richards, a greater inventor than Forge, and more brilliant than the High Evolutionary.

 

Why?

 

Because anything that could be represented symbolically or formulaically he could instantly comprehend and extrapolate from its rudiments.

 

With his learning capacity effectively unlimited, his knowledge level should have increased at an incredible rate, since he only need exposure to the rudiments of a language to extrapolate it to its furthest extent, he could have mastered all of the worlds sciences and technology in a very short period of time.

 

 

 

All in all, the greatest waste of potential the Marvel Universe has ever known.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

As for weak powers' date=' we used to joke about a character whose only mutant power was that he didn't show up on mutant detectors. [/quote']

There was a collection of short stories about mutants many years ago. I cant recall the name of the book, but one of the short stories was about a secret society of mutants that lived in some alternate space. There were doorways into our world, but they could only be seen by mutants.

 

One guy saw one of the doors and long story short it turned out his only mutation was the ability to see the doors.

 

Kind of silly, but an interesting premise. In the end, the society didnt want him IIRC because he had no real ability.

[Chuckg]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

KS -- re: your Cypher post?

 

One, you are brilliant. I've dimly had the same thoughts myself, from time to time. But I never put all the pieces together.

 

Two -- can I repost your post elsewhere? With attribution?

 

Thanks.

[Chuckg]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Ewww. Just thought of a downside of being smarter than Reed Richards.

 

You bump up to #1 on Victor Von Doom's to-do list.

 

... that is a place that even Mega-Cypher does not want to be. (Or anybody else anywhere near remotely sane, for that matter.)

 

Edit -- oh dear Lord, even worse thought.

 

Doom using the Ovoid Mind Transfer to put his intellect... into Douglas Ramsey's neurons. And remember, mutant powers stay with the body.

 

... I'm scared.

[JmOz]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

The Doom/Reed thing is more personal than who is smarter (It has to do with why Doom was scared). Doom could except someone smarter than him just not Reed

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

KS -- re: your Cypher post?

 

One, you are brilliant. I've dimly had the same thoughts myself, from time to time. But I never put all the pieces together.

 

Two -- can I repost your post elsewhere? With attribution?

 

Thanks.

Thanx for the kind words, and sure!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

To truly fight Cypher if he had been used correctly, a Tech based character would have to basically go the Battlestar Gallactica route of using only closed systems.

 

Anything with an I/O networked together would be vulnerable to Cypher. Once he was able to establish comms with your systems.....heh heh.....its "all your base belong to us" time.

 

 

That raises another point. If Cypher had the gift for Magic, he would also be the greatest magic user there ever was. Once he learned the rudiments of applied magic.....ding ding ding.....instant comprehension of its farthest flung possibilities. Doom would catch it on both ends....

[Chuckg]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Doom would get in a time machine, go back to Cypher's birth, get a DNA sample, splice Cypher's power into his own head via genetic retrovirus, and then spend fifteen years in another timeline pumping himself up to obscene levels a la Kang the Conqueror before going right back to the day he left and crushing Super-Cypher like a walnut before he'd let that happen.

 

In addition to intellect, there is also experience. And resources.

 

Or, as the old saying goes, "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm."

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

 

Doom would get in a time machine, go back to Cypher's birth, get a DNA sample, splice Cypher's power into his own head via genetic retrovirus, and then spend fifteen years in another timeline pumping himself up to obscene levels a la Kang the Conqueror before going right back to the day he left and crushing Super-Cypher like a walnut before he'd let that happen.

 

In addition to intellect, there is also experience. And resources.

 

Or, as the old saying goes, "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm."

Thus starting a cascading paradox as Cypher, having read something written by Doom, extrapolates Doom's thought process and anticipating such a move launches a preemptory assault of his own. Easily comprehending the nuances of time travel and manipulation, Cypher takes the high road of snuffing out Doom prior to his birth. In every dimension. Just to be safe, he also prevents the birth of Doom's parents.

 

To avoid any long term continuity issues, Cypher then replaces Doom with a synthoid created by Cypher and programmed to behave as Doom would save that the synthoid could never work againt the wishes of Cypher either directly or indirectly.

 

Further, just to cover all bases, Cypher creates an undetectible bio-virus that specifically targets the genetic code of Doom and propagates it throughout time into every era of every dimension. The virus is of course instantly lethal and so insidious that no amount of bio-filtering can prevent it, but only affects Doom himself. This should take care of any Doom's that manage to escape temporal removal via temporal displacement. As soon as Doom emerges into normal timeflow, its lights out.

 

Cypher briefly considers Doom as the most memorable enemy who never was, smiles contendedly for a few micro seconds, and then continues pondering concepts too advanced for any normal human to rationalize.

 

Superior comprehension and prior planning trumps experience and dirty tricks.