Guest WhammeWhamme Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Doom would get in a time machine, go back to Cypher's birth, get a DNA sample, splice Cypher's power into his own head via genetic retrovirus, and then spend fifteen years in another timeline pumping himself up to obscene levels a la Kang the Conqueror before going right back to the day he left and crushing Super-Cypher like a walnut before he'd let that happen. In addition to intellect, there is also experience. And resources. Or, as the old saying goes, "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm." Riiight... Of course, that's assuming SuperCypher went public. Since him becoming SuperCypher would require him to have more than two brain cells to rub together, I don't think it's likely this hypothetical SMART person would. (Now, if the "real" Cypher had simply had the ramifications of his powers pointed out to him... yes, he'd be screwed. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? > Thus starting a cascading paradox as Cypher, having read something written > by Doom, extrapolates Doom's thought process [snip] *That's* a bit outside the scope of the power. Even Cypher's super-intuitive talent required a minimum amount of data to get a result, and limited the quality of the results to the quality of the data. He just needed a lot less data than anybody else. For example, he needed to look at the Magus' entire genetic code before he could comprehend that genetic code.... and strain pretty hard to do it. If he'd only had a fraction of the DNA to work with, he'd only have gotten a partial answer. So extrapolating Doom's entire course of action from an unrelated writing is not likely. And, of cousre, Doom is hardly going to send him a note on the topic. Re: 'early warning' -- hey, we know Doom had Muir Isle bugged from FANTASTIC FOUR VS. X-MEN. From FANTASTIC FOUR #28 we also know he had long-term backdoor access to the US military command systems, the SHIELD systems, and the Avengers mainframe... pretty much everywhere but the FF themselves, and possibly Wakanda. IOW, he damn sure know about Cypher before Cypher know he comin' for him. He doesn't need to 'go public'. He just needs to go to the X-Men. Doom is watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Of course, were I in the Marvel Universe with his power, rather than going to the creepy and hated Mentalist Mutant Master, I might just go to the universally beloved super genius... You did say that the Fantastic Four were the one group that he didn't bug, right? What a nice coincidence that RR seems like a perfect choice to go to if you want to "expand your mind"... :evilgrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? You did say that the Fantastic Four were the one group that he didn't bug' date=' right?[/quote'] Actually, no. I said it was the one group that managed to keep its computer files from being raped by Doom. But given that it's the home of his arch-enemy Reed Richards, it's the one group that Doom monitors the *most*. Even if he's usually restricted to just keeping tabs on who enters and leaves the building, because Reed's security systems are keeping the Doom-tech outside. Of course, that alone will be enough to very soon flag Cypher as suspicious, and then the full-court press enters the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Actually, no. I said it was the one group that managed to keep its computer files from being raped by Doom. But given that it's the home of his arch-enemy Reed Richards, it's the one group that Doom monitors the *most*. Even if he's usually restricted to just keeping tabs on who enters and leaves the building, because Reed's security systems are keeping the Doom-tech outside. Of course, that alone will be enough to very soon flag Cypher as suspicious, and then the full-court press enters the picture. But then considering Doom's full-court press hasn't wiped out the Fantastic Four anytime he's tried it so why should Cypher worry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Hello? He's atomized the FF with the Power Cosmic and raised them from the dead. He trapped them in Liddleville for months. He's had them in his dungeons and helpless any number of times. In FF #28, he damn near took out the entire *PLANET*. And then there's "Emperor Doom", where the Earth was so thoroughly dominated that the FF weren't even relevant to the storyline. I seriously wonder if Doom doesn't deliberately keep the FF around only because he dodesn't know what he'd do without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Actually, no. I said it was the one group that managed to keep its computer files from being raped by Doom. But given that it's the home of his arch-enemy Reed Richards, it's the one group that Doom monitors the *most*. Even if he's usually restricted to just keeping tabs on who enters and leaves the building, because Reed's security systems are keeping the Doom-tech outside. Of course, that alone will be enough to very soon flag Cypher as suspicious, and then the full-court press enters the picture. Of course, these things take time. How long WILL it take for SuperCypher to get active? Doom is a Planner, and Cypher's relevance would chance pretty quickly... Oh, and something the Vs System CCG made me curious about (since you seem to be a FF buff, I figured I might as well ask): Who the heck IS/was 'Valeria' (according to the game, she's either Reed's or Doom's daughter... eh?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? > Thus starting a cascading paradox as Cypher, having read something written > by Doom, extrapolates Doom's thought process [snip] *That's* a bit outside the scope of the power. Even Cypher's super-intuitive talent required a minimum amount of data to get a result, and limited the quality of the results to the quality of the data. He just needed a lot less data than anybody else. Doom has published enough scientific journals and other spew for his basic operating functions to be clear to as discerning a reader as our good Super Cypher. For example, he needed to look at the Magus' entire genetic code before he could comprehend that genetic code.... and strain pretty hard to do it. If he'd only had a fraction of the DNA to work with, he'd only have gotten a partial answer. Doom's mind at its most complex is hardly a patch on the genetic code of a technoorganic creature from another galaxy. I mean, really. So extrapolating Doom's entire course of action from an unrelated writing is not likely. And, of cousre, Doom is hardly going to send him a note on the topic. Thats the beauty of the plan; he doesnt need to anticipate the particulars, only that Doom is likely to be a threat and likely to launch an insidious indirect attack, coupled with the knowledge that he has been involved in temporal shinanegans previously. Once those basic assumptions are formed, its a small logical step to the plan to obliterate Doom completely in all times and places. Re: 'early warning' -- hey, we know Doom had Muir Isle bugged from FANTASTIC FOUR VS. X-MEN. From FANTASTIC FOUR #28 we also know he had long-term backdoor access to the US military command systems, the SHIELD systems, and the Avengers mainframe... pretty much everywhere but the FF themselves, and possibly Wakanda. IOW, he damn sure know about Cypher before Cypher know he comin' for him. He doesn't need to 'go public'. He just needs to go to the X-Men. Doom is watching. Thus the cascading paradox; once Cypher alpha-strikes Doom via temporal removal it doesnt matter since Doom ceases to exist. Further, as a failsafe, you must realize that a Cypher from an alternate dimension where Doom never met RR, never got scared, and never became an evil genius. Operating at a scale far beyond mere human comprehension (and Doom for all his genius is still merely human) this alternate dimension Cypher steps in to protect all versions of himself from all threats, including the Marvel Earth Doom. Doom simply isnt equipped to detect or defend himself from the attentions of this properly scoped Cypher and succumbs to temporal removal. I almost feel sorry for Doom. Almost. heheh This is like cowboys and indians. BANG! I got you! No you didnt, you missed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Actually Cypher had a great power -- it was the writers that dropped the ball on that one. The ability to instantly comprehend any "language" has so many ramifications that it would take a much smarter person than I to catalouge all of them. I agree. I always liked Cypher -- because he didn't have any combat powers. He was the "everyman" and that made him more understandable. Sort if like Peter Parker -- sure, he may be superhumanly strong and able to swing from webs, but he also had to pay the rent, get yelled at by J Jonah Jameson, and get to class on time. I'd love to be able to speak and read and language on earth. I could go anywhere and not feel a stranger, read any book, see any movie. Certainly get a well-paying job and never want for money. And, if I had it on a level of Cypher's presumed scale (I was never aware of exactly how extensive it was), well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? You know, if Cypher had lived, Marvel could have its own Oracle analogue. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? they already do shes called Sage heres a little bio and she is the only cool thing about the mostly excrable xtreme x men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? > Doom's mind at its most complex is hardly a patch on the genetic code of a > technoorganic creature from another galaxy. I mean, really. Actually, predicting the workings of the human mind is far *harder* than working with DNA. The one is a mechanistic system. The other is pure chaos math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? > Doom's mind at its most complex is hardly a patch on the genetic code of a > technoorganic creature from another galaxy. I mean, really. Actually, predicting the workings of the human mind is far *harder* than working with DNA. The one is a mechanistic system. The other is pure chaos math. Yes, but to Cypher math is just another language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? they already do shes called Sage heres a little bio and she is the only cool thing about the mostly excrable xtreme x men. Since I only buy X-Treme X-Men in moments of weakness that I regret afterwards, can someone explain why Sage can occasionally communicate with computers ("send e-mail with her mind"?) and at other times cannot? Is that supposed to be part of her powers, or is it just stupid writing like the rest of X-Treme X-Men? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? i think it was just stupid writing frankly everything is really confusing now. i mean Xorn just died again (but this is the real xorn(not the fake xorn created by the other magneto who wasn't the real one who wolverine killed Again after he destroyed new york again,the real one is now on genosha working with his nemesis charles xavier arggghh). actually xorn got the bums rush its a shame because he was much more intresting than the stupid magneto plot they used to get rid of him. chinese buddhist mostly pacifist teacher/healer with a miniture star for a brain,who teaches the remedial class at the xavier school. such a cool character ruined by lazy writing. they could have brought in a new nemesis something to extend teh franchise but no they had to rehash the same old stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? With appologies to other Legion fans (especially Hawksmoor!) What about good ol' Matter Eater Lad? Matter Eater Lad is not useless. If you doubth the coolness of being able to eat anything, try the manga Eat-Man. Bolt Crank is da bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Come now, there was only one destiny for Cypher...to be James Bond. Espionage would be the perfect vocation. Besides, reading body language...seduction anyone? Oh yeah, Cy had some real potential there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Matter Eater Lad is not useless. If you doubth the coolness of being able to eat anything' date=' try the manga Eat-Man. Bolt Crank is da bomb.[/quote'] Ladies and Gentlemen, Bolt Crank. http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsanime/bolt.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Yes' date=' but to Cypher math is just another language. [/quote'] 1 + ix = y. Find x and y. Even Cypher has to hear the whole sentence clearly to translate the whole sentence. If you went "fnord fnord fnord [mumble]", he'd only put out "And thus, it is perfectly obvious that [mumble]". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Weakest Supers in books you've read? Very, very suprised no one has mentioned Great Lakes Avenger's Mr. Immortal. Think about it. He's a normal human, in every respect, except that when he gets killed he gets better. In about 10 minutes. Lot can happen in 600 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? 1 + ix = y. Find x and y. Even Cypher has to hear the whole sentence clearly to translate the whole sentence. If you went "fnord fnord fnord [mumble]", he'd only put out "And thus, it is perfectly obvious that [mumble]". No, he wouldn't. If I did that his power would kick in and he'd know the entire language almost immediatly, that's how his power works. That's how it works with all languages, he'd have it figured within a few seconds that's why it's a power and not merely a well honed skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? ... what I'm trying to get across is that even Cypher has to hear or see something before he can translate it. His power does not *create* information, it *interprets* information. It's intuition... not omniscience. Ergo, it cannot be instantly used to solve every and any dilemna. Even he needs a certain minimum amount of data to work from before it can produce a complete answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? If we're including anime, then I'm nominating all seven of the Aasu sisters from Puni Puni Poemi. Especially the one with super-breakfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? If we're including anime, then I'm nominating all seven of the Aasu sisters from Puni Puni Poemi. Especially the one with super-breakfall. Oh heck, how about Hyatt from Excel Saga? Her main power is to drop dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read? Excel Saga kicks ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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