Vigil Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 in your opinion between OIHID and Multiform? I ask because it seems that for most purposes there is no difference and that OIHID is, in fact, a cheap way to do Multiform. Take, for example, Colossus of the X-Men. Most often I've seen him expressed as a pretty straight forward, even archetypal, OIHID character. But, couldn't he also be expressed as a Multiform? And who would you cite as being a good example of either? I was just wondering how any of you differentiate bewteen the two? Disadvantages that carry over from one form to another? Appearance? This seems to be one of those occassions when the rules cross over and are pretty gray. Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... Multiform is when you change into an entirely new set of stats, skills, and abilities. The new form may share many of the original ones. For example, Fishman turns into a carp. The carp may have Fishman's intellect and skills - though perhaps not all of them (like skill levels with running), but the stats are generally those of a carp (or a super carp, it may be super fast, super strong and shoot plastic silverware out of its eyes...) OIHID (or HFO - Hero Form Only) means you add onto the original foundation. For example, Colossus getting metal skin and extra strength. Or Iron Man donning a suit of armor. Typically, there is little to no loss of the qaulities of the original (although things like losing COM is common, but there may be some other disadvantages to the hero form like having fat fingers or something). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted August 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... Hmmmm. According to the 5th edition rules, though, OIHID takes longer than a phase, minimum, and has to have some risk of not happening. I haven't ever seen either of those things happen in Colossus's case which makes me think that he is in fact a multiform kinda guy as opposed to someone like the classic 60's Thor who would be OIHID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... No, it says it takes your full phase, minimum. Which is 1 second. It can take longer if you want it to, but it doesn't have to (anyone can change clothes in 1 phase, anyway). The call for prevention is "new" with 5e and something I wouldn't bother with. It works better as a disad or a limit on instant change. Anyway, read further and I'll mention methods for getting around it for those who insist on including it... Colossus is a bad choice for Multiform in that you'd be buying everything from the meat form in the metal form, also. It's redundant. He's a classic HFO example, to me. All of his powers simply add onto his original form. He might not even be HFO. He might have lots of armor that requires activation and a bunch of stuff linked to the armor. Wallah. No need for the "hinderable" change of forms and it's still -.25 Or, he might have just purchased the "instant change" option from Transform to get around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... I tend to look at this a bit different. I compare Multiform to OIHID with Instand Change. With IC you can assume your other form just as fast as you can with Multiform. But ultimately this is a bit moot. After I've got a concept for a character with two or more "forms" I start thinking about what the forms are. Is one of the forms just a normal guy? If so, I'll go with OIHID. Are both forms powerful, just with different powers? If so, I go with Multiform. What if both form are powerful, but one form just has a few extra abilities the other doesn't? OIHID. I did this with a demon character that was rather powerful in his normal/default form, but could "demon out" into his full demonic form and gain more STR, some Armor and a Damage Shield. What if one form is just a normal guy, but the other form would have different skills/disads/etc? Multiform. Multiform is best for this, but if it's only a small change (like the other form has a Distinctive Feature) then I might swing OIHID and a make the DF Easily Concealable (can always switch forms). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewings Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... Personally, I use a very simple rule: If the character's Disads don't change, it's OHID. If they do, it's Multiform. DF or Reputation can be an exception to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutsleeve Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... I would say Colossus's transformation could be hindered. Hit him over the head before he completes the transform and has a metal head and boom ko Colossus and no metal form. Or in the marvel universe zap him with forges "instant shut your mutant powers off gun" and we have no armored colossus. Plus like the others have said Colossus may be written by some people with OIHID that doesnt mean he does have it. Personally id just make him with a heafty amount of normal armor with the special effect "skin turns to metal" no OIHID people just tacked that on i think to give it a point break. I however wouldnt have it a multiform The Hulk is a multiform because he has a total change when it occurs. Even the disadvantages change. Basically OIHID is like vanilla ice cream with toppings. Multiform is like is like making vanilla ice cream into Double Mint Fudge Ripple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... To me, the standard is that Multiform represents a change while OIHID represents an addition. For example, one of the PC's in my current campaign is a 16-form Multiform. The forms differ quite a bit; some of them share as little as 10% with the main form (mostly DEX and SPD points). Another has OIHID defined as "only when powered up", pretty similar to Collosus in that respect. He has the same disadvantages, the same skills -- except that one of them is basically an ordinary guy and the other is an ordinary guy with super powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... Classic examples? Beast Boy and Snowbird have Multiform. Each can take on a myriad of different animal forms. Thor/Don Blake and Captain Marvel/Billy Batson have OIHID. The characters are complete normals until activating their hero ID's. Colossus has special effects. Many of his powers are linked to his Armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJR Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... Classic examples? Beast Boy and Snowbird have Multiform. Each can take on a myriad of different animal forms. Thor/Don Blake and Captain Marvel/Billy Batson have OIHID. The characters are complete normals until activating their hero ID's. Colossus has special effects. Many of his powers are linked to his Armor. Or you can just as easily say: Beast Boy and Snowbird have shapeshift and an animal vpp to represent their limitless shape choices. Thor and Captain Marvel have multiform due to the fact that they have different personalities, skills, knowledge and powers. Colossus is only in hero id as his powers only work in Colossus form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... It would be clunky as hell to do "normal to megapower" as a Multiform. Like has been said, if you don't really lose any abilities or characteristics from your base form when you transform, its OIHID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... My first, broadest consideration when making this distinction is: Does the character have any need or reason to spend any significant amount of time in his non-powered identity? If he's almost always in superhuman form, then no special provisions for a second form are necessary or warranted. My second question would be, does the character retain his essential personality, Skills, non-superhuman abilities, and at least some Disadvantages in both forms? If the answer is yes, OIHID sounds more appropriate; if no, Multiform is more the way to go. If the answer to the second question was yes, then I ask if the character has any kind of difficulty changing forms (requires some extra time, intense concentration, special spoken word or item) such that an opponent, or the right circumstances, could prevent the change? If the answer to this question is yes, then OIHID is probably warranted. If the shift between forms is instantaneous and effortless, and it rarely or never inconveniences the character, then the two forms are basically SFX and the Limitation really doesn't apply. (Mind Controlling the person to not change, or attacking him when he's sleeping, wouldn't be fair to include as prevention conditions IMO.) I hope that's of some help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... in your opinion between OIHID and Multiform? Vigil There are two main differences between OIHID and multiform... The first is mechanical... OIHID has an issue with transforming, a problem, a hitch... something the enemy/scenario can exploit to make the transformation not happen. Multiform is not required to have such. The second is more IMO but i use multiform when the majority of the character changes, including personality, skills and what not. Hulk/Banner, Marvel/rick jones, larry talbot/werewolf are all IMO good and classic multiforms. iron Man IMO is a classic OIHID. Sure he could be built as focus but his focus breaks too infrequently for me to see it as a focus. Colossus is neither. he can change on a whim with no problem. he is a case of someone with visible armor, perhaps non-persistent armor as well though its been too long for me to recall if he goes all soft instantly when knocked out or even stunned or not. I seem to think he stayed hardbodied when stunned and such or at least for a little while, which i would view as persistent enough. I would build a beast boy/animal man as multiform, even though the personality doesn;t change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutsleeve Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... Eearly Thor probably would not be a OIHID. When the early Thor was summon Mr. Happless with a stick became Thor. His entire metality shifted to being Thor. It was only in later Holders of the Walking stick who retained their own sentiennce while having thors body. Billy Batsons a good example of OIHID he may be an 8 year old boy but he still retains most of his psyche when he transforms. His new Stats are powers with OIHID so he gets by the Age limited stats. The thing about all these characters is they can all be made in a variety of ways. What you have to do is figure out which way apears to more closely resemble the character in the comic book, what are the drawbacks of each way, And which way do i like to use for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: What's the difference... Eearly Thor probably would not be a OIHID. When the early Thor was summon Mr. Happless with a stick became Thor. His entire metality shifted to being Thor. It was only in later Holders of the Walking stick who retained their own sentiennce while having thors body. Actually, the very early Thor was "Whosoever holds this hammer shall posess the power of Thor". That was OIHID. Then, fairly early on, it was decided that really WS Thor. At that point, a Multiform's probably better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBug Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: What's the difference... I would use OIHID for Colossus because I find it simpler, but I think it could also be expressed well by having all his 'armored' attributes linked to one level of Growth (bought to 0 End and/or Persistent, depending on who's writing him). When he's Grown, he has his extra STR, Armor, etc. Iron Man is definitely OIHID for reasons already mentioned. To me, it seems Multiform is most appropriate when the character's personality changes along with his abilities. I think the classic example of Multiform is Cap'n Trips from the Wild Cards series. He was an ordinary person who could 'summon' -ie. transform into- his superheroic 'friends' by imbibing the right chemical formula. Each hero had his own distinct personality, separate from each other and from the base personality. Many of them didn't even like each other. Powers, disadvantages, appearance- everything changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: What's the difference... Just to toss a couple coins on Colossus... I'd write him up with Visible Armor and Linked STR and related Powers. If I wanted to be totally by the book, the Armor wouldn't even be Visible (since it would depend upon your POV if it was actually perceivable by more than just the Sight Group). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: What's the difference... well it did go CLONGGGGG when you hit it and felt like steel, i bet he smells and tastes different. and his heat pattern probably changes as does his magnetic resonance and he will have a better radar return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel Gabri Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: What's the difference... I think the "difference" between OIHID and Multiform is more fundamental. OIHID is a limitation intended to represent a power that cannot be used unless the character has made a change in himself, and for that change to be meaningful enough to get a limitation, there must be some chance that it will fail, or it must take some time, or there's a hassle in doing it. Multiform is intended to permit a character to have powers that occur in large blocks of very different construction. OIHID exists so that Iron Man, who has to put on a suit of armor to get his abilities, can be properly compensated for the limitation of having to go home and climb in the suit. Multiform exists so that a character can turn into a werewolf without having to buy both the human and the wolf on the same character sheet (way too expensive to pay for). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: What's the difference... well it did go CLONGGGGG when you hit it and felt like steel' date=' i bet he smells and tastes different. and his heat pattern probably changes as does his magnetic resonance and he will have a better radar return.[/quote'] That magnetic issue is a pretty big deal for a guy whose team is hunted by the Master of Magnetism, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: What's the difference... Yeah, whenever he's in powered form, he has something like "x2 Effect for All Magnetic Powers." And being able to turn off the weakness by turning off the metal form ain't that big an advantage. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 27, 2004 Report Share Posted August 27, 2004 Re: What's the difference... OIHID exists so that Iron Man' date=' who has to put on a suit of armor to get his abilities, can be properly compensated for the limitation of having to go home and climb in the suit..[/quote'] OIHID should also work with magical girls (like, say, Sailor Moon). Beleve me, waveing transformation sticks and chanting and prancing just to change is hard work. Of course, Lady Heart is a multiform, but mostly because, well, of the he/she thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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