SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

[KA.]

I just went to get a bottle of water.

Yes, fascinating, I know, but there's more!

I had just been posting here, so I was thinking of Champions/Superheroes, and a thought struck me.

Let's say I am Bobby Drake (Iceman).

I am walking down the street in civilian ID, when I spot a mugging in progress.

I don't want to change to Iceman, too many people around, and my Martial Arts skills aren't that great, and could cause embarrassing questions too.

What I need is a simple weapon, like a club.

I remember I am carrying a full bottle of water.

You know, if this thing were frozen, I could . . .

 

You get the idea.

 

Now I know that it is possible for characters to use their powers to do Power Stunts, by making a Power Skill roll.

That is all well and good.

But some things aren't exactly "Power" stunts, they are more like "SFX" stunts.

Unless Iceman has some sort of HTH Attack Power, turning a bottle of water into an ice club does not really fall under a specific power, but based on his overall SFX, he should be able to do it.

 

I know that a GM could just handwave this sort of thing, but, what does everyone else think of someting like an SFX Skill?

Or perhaps even giving certain characters this for free?

 

Let me put a little fine print on this first.

 

I imagine this being for characters like Iceman who have one basic "elemental" SFX.

Just because you have a napalm round in your multi-gun, it doesn't mean you can cook food over your hands.

 

And, I think it should be for relatively minor stuff, maybe 10 AP or less.

 

But I think it could be a cool way to allow characters to do some of the cool stuff we see in the comics, without having to buy a VPP, or tons of little powers.

 

Any thoughts?

 

KA.

[phydaux]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Unless Iceman has some sort of HTH Attack Power' date=' turning a bottle of water into an ice club does not really fall under a specific power, but based on his overall SFX, he should be able to do it.[/quote']

 

See Change Environment, FREd p. 90

 

Change Environment is the BEST reason to turn your characters Attack Powers Multipower (Bobby Drake's Ice Blast EB & Ice Entangle) into a VPP.

 

It is ALSO the best reason the DENY a player a VPP.

 

With a decent imagination and and a little non-combat time you can use Change Environment to do just about ANYTHING.

 

And some player's imaginations are just TOO good.

[phydaux]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

That said, SOME players should be allowed Change Environment, even if it's just a slot in their Multipower. Iceman is a classic example. Human Torch, really anyone with an "elemental" SFX. Also Mystics or a "weather witch" a la Storm or Thor.

 

But not Iron Man, or even Magneto (although SOME of the stuff they let Magneto do in the comics can ONLY be done through a HUGE VPP).

[paigeoliver]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Actually, a simple 10 point cosmic power pool, limited to the characters special effect can take care of any and ALL of these little tricks.

[OddHat]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

I think this is exactly the sort of thing the Power Skill is for, and I'd have no problem letting Bobby roll to change 1/10th or so of the Active Points of his best cold power into a HA for this scene. I also agree with Paige that a 10 point VPP works as well, if you want to pull minor tricks all the time.

[pinecone]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

I'm a bit of a fan of special effects...I'd let that fly without a qualm, I'd just treat it as a club...no differant than looking around for something to use as a club...to me it's just a cool thing a character can do.......

[caris]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

To me this does sound like what the Power Skill is for. The examples in the description of the Power Skill is using the skill to justifying getting some other small power based on the SFX of another power. In this case I would use it as being based off of Ice Man's Entangle, EB/RKA, or Transformation: air/water into ice.

[nexus]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

I'm a bit of a fan of special effects...I'd let that fly without a qualm' date=' I'd just treat it as a club...no differant than looking around for something to use as a club...to me it's just a cool thing a character can do.......[/quote']

 

I'm big fan of letting sfx matter as well and I'd like a player do this. I mean, I'd like him pick a stick or a rock, right? Its essentially the same thing game mechanics wise and just looks cooler.

[KA.]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Okay, it looks from the majority of the posts like I may have been thinking of Power Skill too narrowly.

If you all think that it could be used for minor effects that are "pure SFX" then that is okay with me.

KA.

[GestaltBennie]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

I'd recommend using the Power skill too.

[Rapier]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Something this small I might even waive the Power Skill roll. I mean, what are the odds that Iceman CAN'T convert a 1 liter bottle of water into ice?

 

The ice would be really hard. Very easily worth a +2d6, if not more.

[pinecone]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Yeah thats what I was saying I'd have no problem at all you're an ice guy so you can make ice...no problem. Ultimately its up to the GM...some will be bothered by it some won't...

[paigeoliver]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Only questions is how good of a weapon is a frozen bottle of water when you are a superhero. This might be going outside of game mechanics here, but I could see it being usefull for a low STR character, but a high STR character is going to be able to punch much more forcefully than they can smack someone with a bottle of water (which would probably shatter if a 20 STR character smacked someone with it anyway).

 

Actually, I think even I could punch someone more forcefully then I could smack them with a water bottle.

[fbdaury]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Well, in the situation described, he could throw the bottle at the mugger, knocking them down/out and making them drop the purse/wallet. Bobby's gotta have a cooking opitching arm after all those years throwing snowballs at people

[Savinien]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Only questions is how good of a weapon is a frozen bottle of water when you are a superhero. This might be going outside of game mechanics here, but I could see it being usefull for a low STR character, but a high STR character is going to be able to punch much more forcefully than they can smack someone with a bottle of water (which would probably shatter if a 20 STR character smacked someone with it anyway).

 

Actually, I think even I could punch someone more forcefully then I could smack them with a water bottle.

 

You've obviously never been hit with a 'bottle of water' sized chunk of ice, then! It would give a small HTH bonus IMO. Of course, you could also rule the expansion of water into ice enough to crack the bottle and the ice breaks, or what have you. However deep you want to get into it.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

The other night I gave someone an extra +2d6 because he broke off an impressive tree branch and used it as a club.

[Rapier]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

You've obviously never been hit with a 'bottle of water' sized chunk of ice' date=' then! It would give a small HTH bonus IMO. Of course, you could also rule the expansion of water into ice enough to crack the bottle and the ice breaks, or what have you. However deep you want to get into it.[/quote']

I invariably freeze a bottle of water in the back of fridge about once a month. The plastic deforms but holds together pretty well.

 

But, you would be in the same boat with Breaking Things as if you used a chair etc. What is the BODY/DEF of 1 liter of ice?

[Misery Lad]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Something this small I might even waive the Power Skill roll. I mean, what are the odds that Iceman CAN'T convert a 1 liter bottle of water into ice?

 

The ice would be really hard. Very easily worth a +2d6, if not more.

 

But hold on. +2d.6 or more? Maybe even +3d.6? By that measure, would you make it a 1d.6 Physical HKA? If I had that power, I'd probably open the bottle and turn it upside down so that the water runs out. As it does so, I would then freeze it and voila! Instant ice dagger with a well-grippable "hilt".

[Rapier]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

But hold on. +2d.6 or more? Maybe even +3d.6? By that measure' date=' would you make it a 1d.6 Physical HKA? If I had that power, I'd probably open the bottle and turn it upside down so that the water runs out. As it does so, I would then freeze it and voila! Instant ice dagger with a well-grippable "hilt".[/quote']

No reason why it couldn't be. But to do the 'empty the bottle to create jaggedy spikes' version I would most definately require a Power Skill roll.

[zornwil]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

That said, SOME players should be allowed Change Environment, even if it's just a slot in their Multipower. Iceman is a classic example. Human Torch, really anyone with an "elemental" SFX. Also Mystics or a "weather witch" a la Storm or Thor.

 

But not Iron Man, or even Magneto (although SOME of the stuff they let Magneto do in the comics can ONLY be done through a HUGE VPP).

I know it's a tangent, but would you care to elaborate on your Magneto comment? He's a MAJOR NPC in my game but I'm running him without a lot of hands-on comic knowledge (I'll admit it, I was more inspired by the movie Magneto, and I only read the X-Men much at all back in the early '70s when they weren't popular and I was a kid). So you probably have some great, even if munchkiny, examples of his comic book powers... (that emoticon is especially for lemming, or if lamrok happens to note (or chromatic, but he's even less often on the boards))

[zornwil]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

You've obviously never been hit with a 'bottle of water' sized chunk of ice' date=' then! It would give a small HTH bonus IMO. Of course, you could also rule the expansion of water into ice enough to crack the bottle and the ice breaks, or what have you. However deep you want to get into it.[/quote']

Just to echo this, paige oliver, do you remember how hard you could get hit with an iceball masquerading as a snowball? And we always called big-time foul on that (I think it only happened once or twice, but a person could get seriously hurt with one, no kidding).

 

Hmmm, or did you not grow up around much in the way of snow and ice?

[lemming]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

I know it's a tangent' date=' but would you care to elaborate on your Magneto comment? He's a MAJOR NPC in my game but I'm running him without a lot of hands-on comic knowledge (I'll admit it, I was more inspired by the movie Magneto, and I only read the X-Men much at all back in the early '70s when they weren't popular and I was a kid). So you probably have some great, even if munchkiny, examples of his comic book powers... (that emoticon is especially for lemming, or if lamrok happens to note (or chromatic, but he's even less often on the boards))[/quote']

Hey! Well, I do have a large collection of X titles in the basement. Pretty much up to 93 if you want to spend some time in research.

 

And getting hit by a bottle of frozen water hurts. don't ask.

[zornwil]

Re: SFX Stunts : Cool or Abusive?

 

Hey! Well, I do have a large collection of X titles in the basement. Pretty much up to 93 if you want to spend some time in research.

 

And getting hit by a bottle of frozen water hurts. don't ask.

Sure, that'd be great, just whenever we get together is fine, no special trip. I didn't even think to ask, I should have thought of that.