Tactics Advice

[Cardinal]

Well, I am back to playing after many years away. However, I am a but rusty, especially with combat techniques. In addition, I am running an Energy Projector for the first time (previously I tended to play very high Dex MA types). As such, I would appreciate some advice on effective tactics to use in combat from the great minds on the board.

 

My character's power set (force field creation and manipulation EC) includes flight, force field, force wall, TK and EB with +1/2 variable adv (different shaped force rams). Dex and speed are mid to low for the campaign (23 and 5, respectively).

 

So far I have been fairly standard using FF, Flight and EB or TK to blast away at people and the FW to try to protect innocents.

 

The advice would be especially helpful if people could specify what type of foe a particular tactic would work well on (e.g. "Well your TK on Bricks is useless because of the competing strength issues, but rapid fire AP attacks work great because of their low DCV...", etc.).

 

Thanks in advance!

[Hermit]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Others on board are a lot better than I am at this, but off the top of my head:

 

Remember, Spreading is your friend. Spreading turns any old Energy Blast into either an area effect sort of power making it possible to knock agents/goons around like tenpins, or makes those agile types less annoying as you get some badly needed bonuses to hit them.

 

Coordination is key, assuming your character is not alone. Sometimes, even if you can't do stun to a foe, knocking him or her on le butt works wonders for setting up a follow shot by your brick buddy or what have you. I've seen players who are master of holding phases until just the right one two moment.

 

You have these all in an EC? Use that.... set forcewalls up and then KB folks into them. TK grip someone and blast away the next phase. That sort of thing. Since you can use your powers in conjunction instead of 'switching out', have fun experimenting with new ways to do so.

 

Those are just a few, probably obvious, thoughts.

[Rapier]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Post your character, if possible. It's often hard to get a real feel for the power set without seeing it in the flesh and blood, so to speak.

 

OtToMH, I would try and use some delaying tactics (englobe a villain in FW), disarms and throws (with the TK) to get the target at a disadvantage and hold back your EB until it can really count.

 

It also sounds as if your character is not as combat heavy as the rest of the team. You, as a team, should sit down and develop some simple tactics/maneuvers. Something as simple as Character A entangles target, everyone else lumps in on him (frequently referred to as "DogPile on the Rabbit" ), a FastBall Special , a sight Flash and a bit of hearing Images to get a villain to attack another villain etc.

 

You should also immediately invest in some TeamWork skill (along with the rest of the team). Using TeamWork even a few times will prove to you very quickly that you are much stronger as a team than the sum of the parts (combining STUN, BABY!).

[Trebuchet]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Never pass up an opportunity to put an opponent on the ground, where he instantly goes to ½ DCV. This is a favorite routine of my MA Zl'f, who does low end damage (8 - 10d6) but has several teammates who hit much harder. Rapier is correct, teamwork (and it's official manifestation, Teamwork) can create a synergy that makes a team much more dangerous than it appears on paper.

 

Also, don't overlook the fun you can have with using the Variable Advantage TK and using the Invisible Advantage. You'd be surprised at how effective an unseen attack can be. We used to have a teannate who often opened up our team's attack with his invisible TK attack.

[Outsider]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Hm. All I can see 'different shaped force rams' at +1/2 justifying would be AoE hex (broad ram) and AP (Pointy Ram). Other advantages would be iffy on special effect, or too large to fit the +1/2. I could just be blanking on special effect interpretation, though. What other advantages do you anticipate being able to put on your EB? Exactly what you can throw makes a difference for your tactical options. And does having the variable advantage make your number of dice small for the campaign? (as in, you have 8d6 EB with +1/2 adv. while everyone else is throwing 12d6 straight attacks?)

 

 

As far as tactics, Dont land or spend time very close to the ground if you can help it. Staying out of range of the surfacebound Brick's, Speedster's, and Martial Artist's optimized (HTH) attacks is a good thing. They will either have to use that secondary range attack they bought to attack you (which they may not have bought as large, or with quite so many applicable levels), or find a convenient object to throw (which may not be available, have enough DEF+BOD to deliver their full STR damage potential, and/or be something they can apply their skill levels/martial manuvers to) or they can half leap and attack (but, if they didnt buy superleap, their half leap verticle is going to be pretty poor. Even an 80 STR brick only leaps 4" vertically with a 'half leap') OR, they can try a full move leap moveby/through (which again they most likely will not have so many levels in, and which they WILL lose CV for performing)

 

Play the speed chart. As a high mobility/ranged attack specialist, you can deliver damage anywhere in the fight more easily than most others characters. Be ready to take advantage of momentary events. Is an enemy prone due to knockback? Recovering from being stunned? Trying to sneak an extra recovery in? Doing anything else that reduces his DCV or makes aimed shots easier? Have a phase held to take advantage of it! Figure out a way to trip or knock down your targets, even if it requies sarificing most of your damage. If you dont use it until you're just about to lose your held phase, then do, you will have a nice, prone target the next segment.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Hm. All I can see 'different shaped force rams' at +1/2 justifying would be AoE hex (broad ram) and AP (Pointy Ram). Other advantages would be iffy on special effect, or too large to fit the +1/2. I could just be blanking on special effect interpretation, though. What other advantages do you anticipate being able to put on your EB? Exactly what you can throw makes a difference for your tactical options. And does having the variable advantage make your number of dice small for the campaign? (as in, you have 8d6 EB with +1/2 adv. while everyone else is throwing 12d6 straight attacks?)

snip...

Actually, Variable Advantage can be a little cheaper (minus -1/4) if you limit the number of choices to 3-4 different advantages.

 

example:

Variable Advantage[+1/2 Advantages](+3/4)[Only 4 different advantages: Affects Desolidified, AOE 1 Hex, Armor Piercing and Indirect]

(AOE:1 Hex can be Blocked, Indirect can be Dodged)

 

8d6 attacks for 70 active

9d6 attacks for 79 active.

 

HM

[Cardinal]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Thanks for feedback. Keep it coming.

 

Post your character' date=' if possible. It's often hard to get a real feel for the power set without seeing it in the flesh and blood, so to speak. [/quote']

 

I will try to get the character up as soon as I get some stuff cleaned up.

 

Here is a quick version of the EC:

EC (50pts)

a) FW 12/12 5†long 5†Tall

FF 20/20 Reduced End

c) 20†Flight, x8 noncombat

d) 40 Str TK

e) 10D6 EB Variable Adv (set group – see below)

 

If you note, many of these powers are more than 60AP. The GM has approved certain schtick powers to be over the AP cap. Also, the EC has a number of limitations on it which I am not going to go into as they should not effect tactics.

 

Also, don't overlook the fun you can have with using the Variable Advantage TK and using the Invisible Advantage. You'd be surprised at how effective an unseen attack can be. We used to have a teannate who often opened up our team's attack with his invisible TK attack.

 

I apologize if my original post was unclear. The Variable Adv is on the EB only, not the TK. However, that is an interesting idea… ***thinks wicked thoughts***

 

Hm. All I can see 'different shaped force rams' at +1/2 justifying would be AoE hex (broad ram) and AP (Pointy Ram). Other advantages would be iffy on special effect, or too large to fit the +1/2. I could just be blanking on special effect interpretation, though. What other advantages do you anticipate being able to put on your EB? Exactly what you can throw makes a difference for your tactical options. And does having the variable advantage make your number of dice small for the campaign? (as in, you have 8d6 EB with +1/2 adv. while everyone else is throwing 12d6 straight attacks?)

 

As Hyper Man alluded, I plan to choose 3 or 4 and limit it to those to get the -1/4 break. Currently I considering the following: AP (pointy), One Hex Area (big car sized block), Explosion cone (a wave of force that spreads thinner as it moves out... though I am thinking about this one a little more), indirect (forming the block away from the character and going from there... though this may be redundant with TK), No Range Modifier (keep steering the ram as it flies... making it more accurate), and 1 1/2XKB (the normal block hitting with lots of momentum). Affects Desolid, normal explosion, penetrating don't seem to make sense for the SFX. Also, I do not think I will do reduced end for stylistic reasons (I wants the character to have to expend energy to use these powers).

 

Do people have suggestions for other advs. that might work and more importantly fit the SFX?

 

Most people seem to be tossing 12-15 DC attacks. However, with pushes, haymakers, etc. some numbers can get much bigger.

 

On that note, I have a quick rules question. If I Haymaker a Variable Adv. EB, do I end up with 14D6 Variable Adv?

 

One area that I am exploring with the GM is to have the character learn MA with the TK. I think maneuvers like passing strike, passing throw, leg sweep, etc. could be pretty fun with TK and Flight. Does anyone have experience with this? That being said, I would like to avoid the cheddar end of the spectrum. Has anyone run into problems with characters using this sort of power combination? How is this combination abused? Is there a way to prevent that abuse and still allow the conceptual use of that combo?

 

My goal is to have the character be a versatile and creative combatant rather than walking artillery piece. Any thoughts on how to use these specific powers to knock people on their a$$es and thus lower their DCVs?

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Well, I am back to playing after many years away. However, I am a but rusty, especially with combat techniques. In addition, I am running an Energy Projector for the first time (previously I tended to play very high Dex MA types). As such, I would appreciate some advice on effective tactics to use in combat from the great minds on the board.

 

My character's power set (force field creation and manipulation EC) includes flight, force field, force wall, TK and EB with +1/2 variable adv (different shaped force rams). Dex and speed are mid to low for the campaign (23 and 5, respectively).

 

So far I have been fairly standard using FF, Flight and EB or TK to blast away at people and the FW to try to protect innocents.

 

The advice would be especially helpful if people could specify what type of foe a particular tactic would work well on (e.g. "Well your TK on Bricks is useless because of the competing strength issues, but rapid fire AP attacks work great because of their low DCV...", etc.).

 

Thanks in advance!

Team up with a MA or brick to deal with big enemies. If the enemy focuses on you, it leaves them open to a heavy hit from the melee fighter. If they focus on the melee, you can get into a good position for a rear attack (1/2 DCV) or allow you to put Combat Skill Levels into extra DC without fear of missing.

[Victim]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Well, for different variable effects, how about:

 

Invisible to Sight (this force ram is transparent)

 

Indirect (create the force effect behind or to the side, then bash target)

 

Affects Desolid (exploit the force interactions that allow Desolid characters to move around, ect)

 

Impart more of your force to the target with x1.5 Knockback.

 

Reduced End might help you in some cases. If you use your TK to grab or trip someone, then a 0 END Rapid Fire attack gives you additional firepower without leaving you gasping like an ordinary attack might.

 

In some cases, Penetrating might be applicable, perhaps by creating the force effect on the inside of the target, thus bypassing their defenses and getting directly to the squishy bits.

 

Transdimensional to hit Ethereal targets.

 

---------------------------------------------

 

Don't forget that you can use your TK to help your teammates. Move them around if need be, get the slow guys into place faster, help the ground pounders against flyers, etc.

[phydaux]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Is your EB vs PD or ED?

 

If PD, then team up with the team brick or martial artist. If ED, then team up with another power projector.

 

Set the FW behind the villain, then Combined Attack him into the FW.

 

Also, your FW is big enough that you can wrap it around five sides of a villain's hex (leaving the connector to the the hex with the team brick open) and then squash him with a one hex AOE - No Diving For Cover!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Thanks for feedback. Keep it coming.

 

snip

 

On that note, I have a quick rules question. If I Haymaker a Variable Adv. EB, do I end up with 14D6 Variable Adv?

 

according to the FAQ:

http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/revisedrules/POWER%20ADVANTAGES%20AND%20ADDERS.htm

 

Q: If a character buys a naked Advantage (say, Armor Piercing) for his HKA, can he still apply damage from STR, Martial Maneuvers, velocity, and the like?

 

A: It depends on how he buys the naked Advantage. If he buys it so that it’s powerful enough to cover the whole attack, including damage from additive factors like Martial Maneuvers, it can.

 

For example, a character has an HKA 2d6 and 15 STR. So, he normally does HKA 3d6 with his sword. If he wants a naked AP Advantage for that, it costs 22 points ((45 x 1.5) - 45). If he has enough damage he can add from Martial Maneuvers to run the damage up to HKA 4d6, he can’t use his naked Advantage unless he restricts himself to HKA 3d6 — it’s not bought to cover a larger attack. If he wants it to cover an HKA 4d6 attack, it has to cost 30 points ((60 x 1.5) - 60).

 

(Regarding Martial Maneuvers, technically speaking, it should take +6 DCs (point value of “30â€) from a Martial Maneuver to add 3 DCs to this Killing Attack, and thus arguably the “cost†of the attack to which the naked AP Advantage applies is “75 points†(45 + 30), so the Advantage should cost 37 points [see UMA 104-05]. However, that’s getting a little too complicated for what we’re trying to do; it’s easier just to buy the ability thusly — Armor Piercing (+1/2) for up to HKA 4d6 — and not worry about where exactly all four dice of damage are coming from.)

HM

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

If you have anyone with ranged unusual attacks, englobe him with the Force Wall. His esoteric defense attacks fly through the wall without harming it, and he's got a 12/12 force wall protecting him. The team mentalist makes a good choice for this.

 

Similarly, you can Englobe yourself and use your VA EB to fire from outside the Force Wall. As Telekinesis is also effectively Indirect, it can be used form inside the Wall as well.

 

You can also make an enemy a goldfish in a bowl this way, if he has troule getting out.

 

And, if all else fails, 20" flight can get you a decent distance away. Fire your EB with "No Range Modifier", "1 hex area" or Line of Sight Range".

[Outsider]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Can a forcewall be formed in mid-air, and remain immobile?

 

If so, would a person englobed in that forcewall remain suspended, so long as his weight didnt exert enough pressure to break the wall? How much weight can a DEF of forcewall hold up? Would the pressure exerted be the 'casual strength' of the STR needed to lift the weight? (ie, a 100 kg person (10 STR to lift) would exert 5 STR (1d6) of pressure on the wall by standing on it, while a 1600 kg person (30 STR to lift) would exert 15 STR (3d6) of pressure)

 

And finally, if so again, could a force wall be formed in the shape of a semisphere, concave side up, suspended in the air high above the ground, and be used as a field-prison for non-flying opponents? By leaving the top open, more prisoners can be added without having to break and reform the force wall. Sure, they can climb out the top, but their status as non-flier means they will have a nasty fall if they do. Up to 30D6 on landing if the basket is high enough. The potential fall would also discourage them strongly from trying to break the forcewall.

 

If the sky basket works, the team brick could put any basketball skills he has to use too... Missing might be messy, though.

[Chuckg]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

> Can a forcewall be formed in mid-air, and remain immobile?

 

Yes.

 

> If so, would a person englobed in that forcewall remain suspended, so long

> as his weight didnt exert enough pressure to break the wall? How much

> weight can a DEF of forcewall hold up?

 

Per 5e revised -- If you have an object or objects of weight X resting on a horizontal force wall (or the bottom of a globe)...

 

Determine the STR needed to pick up weight X.

 

'Attack' the Force Wall every Segment with that STR.

 

If the 'attack' does BODY past the Force Wall's DEF, the Force Wall collapses and everything on it falls.

 

It does /not/ say to use the Standard Effect Rule when 'attacking', but in my own judgement, that would be a good idea, save time, and allow for more reliable (predictable) use of Force Walls as structural supports, lifting platforms, etc.

 

[snip]

> And finally, if so again, could a force wall be formed in the shape of a

> semisphere, concave side up, suspended in the air high above the ground,

> and be used as a field-prison for non-flying opponents? By leaving the top

> open, more prisoners can be added without having to break and reform the

> force wall.

 

I see no reason why not.

 

Of course, it might be hard to put the Force Wall high enough to do that, unless you were a flier.

[Outsider]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Of course' date=' it might be hard to put the Force Wall high enough to do that, unless you were a flier.[/quote']

 

Which Cardinal's character is. It doesnt look like his FW is reduced end, though, so keeping an additional one up high as a place to stash mooks might become END prohibitive. Being as he is a good guy, storing a dozen normals, even bad ones, 30 hexes up in such a basket and then having it drop them to their deaths because he ran out of END or got knocked unconsious might be a bad idea...

[megaplayboy]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

If he can take any +1/2 advantage on his EB, I'd suggest getting some altitude with the flight, since not every opponent can fly, or has a ranged attack. then, depending on the nature of the opponent, you can select advantages appropriately:

AE-Accurate(vs. Martial artist)

AP (vs. brick or another energy projector)

No Range Mods(for long range shots)

x1.5 Knockback(to keep flyers off your back)

Autofire 5(this should be your "finisher" against anybody whose DCV has been halved or reduced to 0--you'll hit 3 or more times and do a lot of damage, but it will drain your END fast)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Per 5e revised -- If you have an object or objects of weight X resting on a horizontal force wall (or the bottom of a globe)...

 

Determine the STR needed to pick up weight X.

 

'Attack' the Force Wall every Segment with that STR.

 

If the 'attack' does BODY past the Force Wall's DEF, the Force Wall collapses and everything on it falls.

 

It does /not/ say to use the Standard Effect Rule when 'attacking', but in my own judgement, that would be a good idea, save time, and allow for more reliable (predictable) use of Force Walls as structural supports, lifting platforms, etc.

 

I'd be inclined to use standard effect unless something causes the attack to be more like an "atack". for example, the suspended people decide (for some reason - BAD mentalist!) to do jumping jacks.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Use TK'd weak villains to "block" attacks by other villains.

 

Wait for villain to try to leap/fly somewhere, and TK him into the ground/wall. Hopefully your GM will give you velocity dice too.

 

TK villains into the way of attacks - brick starts move through, move villain into his path, etc. If you don't have a brick handy, oncoming traffic can work, but try to avoid the little cars. Cement mixers and semis work best.

 

Especially if you can do "fine work", messing with foci can be fun. Grab their gun/wand, etc away from them. Pull the pins on Death Commando's grenades. Etc.

[Cardinal]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Thanks for the advice everyone (and the rules update on FW Chuckg - very handy). I love the mental image of playing basketball with mooks. Very mean, but, hey, they obviously deserve it. Metaplayboy, I found your post particularly helpful.

 

In flipping through the book I noticed rapid fire. This is a new addition since I last played on a regular basis. How effective do people find it to be in combat? Do the cummulative minuses, dcv and movement restrictions limit the usefulness? Are there ways to position oneself to maximize the use?

 

I get the impression that it could potentially be used with the Variable EB set to One Hex as a nasty attack (END expensive).

[Chuckg]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

The thing about Rapid Fire is that it's the ranged version of Sweep -- you're at 1/2 DCV, you take the cumulative minuses, and it eats up a Full Phase.

 

The /good/ news is, since it is a ranged attack, you don't *have* to be doing it where you can get immediately clocked.

 

As you can imagine from the above, the best position from which to rapid fire is:

 

a) from far enough away that the Range Mods the enemy is taking to hit you help make up for the DCV you're losing

 

but with something (either No Range Penalty, Area Effect, Accurate, Penalty Skill Levels vs. Range, etc.) to help you not get hosed by the Range Mods as well.

 

Oh yes, and of course, c) somewhere you won't need to be moving out of until your next Phase comes up.

 

Basically, if you're going to use the Rapid Fire maneuver, either it should be a "finisher" on a single opponent (at which point you don't have to worry about counterattacks vs. your half DCV because the intent is to hammer the guy into la-la land before he *can* counterattack), or it should be in the "artillery support" role (like a mortar platoon supporting an infantry company in the assault -- you are waaaaaay over /here/ while all the thumping and banging and wounding and general rudeness are going on waaaaaaaaay over /there/.)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Basically' date=' if you're going to use the Rapid Fire maneuver, either it should be a "finisher" on a single opponent (at which point you don't have to worry about counterattacks vs. your half DCV because the intent is to hammer the guy into la-la land before he *can* counterattack), or it should be in the "artillery support" role (like a mortar platoon supporting an infantry company in the assault -- you are waaaaaay over /here/ while all the thumping and banging and wounding and general rudeness are going on waaaaaaaaay over /there/.)[/quote']

 

Without in any way disagreeing with Chuckg's comments (these issues have resulted in no one in our group being brave enough to try it, so I agree with his caveats), another use is "I'm low on STUN, just about ouit of END. I'll KO myself in a phase or two anyway. Why not blast off lots of END in a rapid fire shot and maybe accomplish something in the process of dropping?"

 

At least I deny the villain the satisfaction of taking me out.

 

This could actually be a very viable maneuver for your character, give you can place No Range Modifier or 1 Hex Area on your EB and fire from a considerable distance, reducing the odds of a successful counterattack while still having a decent chance at connecting.

[Rapier]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

Without in any way disagreeing with Chuckg's comments (these issues have resulted in no one in our group being brave enough to try it, so I agree with his caveats), another use is "I'm low on STUN, just about ouit of END. I'll KO myself in a phase or two anyway. Why not blast off lots of END in a rapid fire shot and maybe accomplish something in the process of dropping?"

 

At least I deny the villain the satisfaction of taking me out.

 

This could actually be a very viable maneuver for your character, give you can place No Range Modifier or 1 Hex Area on your EB and fire from a considerable distance, reducing the odds of a successful counterattack while still having a decent chance at connecting.

I've probably got sheets for a couple dozen characters with Last Resort Powers. 1 Charge, x8 END, etc etc. You don't use them very often...but when you do...WHOOOOBOY!

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Tactics Advice

 

That could be an interesting character to write up/play. Lots of variety of powers, but can only do any single one once each day. Heck, could even do it as a VPP with a limit (cannot duplicate SFX and effect same day). So, could do a flame blast, but then that's it for flame blast. No getting around it as an RKA, AE, etc. Go to lightning, radiation, etc. instead for "blast" effects. Could still put up a flame FF - once. Etc.