Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

[Beholder]

Greetings all.

 

My PCs possess a base with an outer force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened, mega scale covering an entire island.

 

I looked in the rules and didn't found if there was a way for an army of normal troopers to coordinate their attacks at a single point and try to break through the wall.

 

Any ideas? Beside the obvious trying to dig under the island and such ways of circumventing the wall.

 

I am talking about pure raw attack applied directly to the force wall.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Hmm... have to think about that for a while.

 

You could allow all the troopers to Haymaker their attacks.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Greetings all.

 

My PCs possess a base with an outer force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened, mega scale covering an entire island.

 

I looked in the rules and didn't found if there was a way for an army of normal troopers to coordinate their attacks at a single point and try to break through the wall.

 

Any ideas? Beside the obvious trying to dig under the island and such ways of circumventing the wall.

 

I am talking about pure raw attack applied directly to the force wall.

Well, as described a maximum die roll 4 1/2d6 KA with either x2 AP or 1 successful Find Weakness roll would get past 25 defenses. If anyone has an appropriate analize or demolitions skill I might allow it to be used as an equivalent to FW with enough time.

 

HM

[Beholder]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Find weakness. Good idea, that's one. Thanks

[Rapier]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Well, you could allow them to coordinate. Normally that wouldn't have scratch all effect on BODY, you could rule otherwise against inanimate objects.

 

 

Depending on SFX you could also rule that the FW is Ablative...which would actually make a lot of sense. Or maybe have it be modified ablative. It refreshes every Turn but as long as you can knock it down before the Turn is over you can punch a hole in it.

[lemming]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Find Weakness or somebody with a 2x penetrating attack could pop it like a bubble.

[tracer]

Speaking of Penetrating attacks:

 

When the Hardened Advantage was bought for the Force Wall, was it defined as going against the Penetrating effect, or the Armor Piercing effect, of an attack that was both Penetrating and AP?

[Kristopher]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

My PCs possess a base with an outer force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened, mega scale covering an entire island.

 

How did that happen?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Find Weakness or somebody with a 2x penetrating attack could pop it like a bubble.

Instead of a 'Daisy-Cutter' they call it a 'Cheese-Cutter'!

 

HM

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

OK, I'm not sure why you would allow 50/50 in the first place (Hardened or otherwise). However, for taking it, I classify your players "Powergamers". This justifies a "Powergaming" response. Provide your agents with slow-acting, but very powerful, blowtorches. They do 1 pip RKA (5 points) Penetrating x6 (+3), no Range (-1/2), OAF (-1), X charges (for -1 1/2). Cost 5 points.

 

Since, by the FAQ, 1 pip Penetrating always does one BOD, one shot will take down their force wall. Presumably, it will be expensive to buy another 5 layers of Hardened on the Force Wall (enough time for the researchers to bulk that blowtorch up to 10x Penetrating... ).

 

A teleporting device should get them in underneath the force wall, and seems a bit lkess cheesy.

 

Alternatively, surround the villains' base with a 50/50 Hardened force wall, and use the heroes' tactics to break their own wall. Or use reasoned discourse after hearing tjem whine about the unfairness of this impossible force wall you've placed in their way.

[Silbeg]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Speaking of Penetrating attacks:

 

When the Hardened Advantage was bought for the Force Wall, was it defined as going against the Penetrating effect, or the Armor Piercing effect, of an attack that was both Penetrating and AP?

As I recall, it doesn't matter on the first level.

 

OK, I'm not sure why you would allow 50/50 in the first place (Hardened or otherwise). However, for taking it, I classify your players "Powergamers". This justifies a "Powergaming" response. Provide your agents with slow-acting, but very powerful, blowtorches. They do 1 pip RKA (5 points) Penetrating x6 (+3), no Range (-1/2), OAF (-1), X charges (for -1 1/2). Cost 5 points.

I would agree with that solution. Very clean, but it does deal with the cheese effect of the force wall well. I could see the base re-establishing the FW on the controller's (AI or PC) next phase, but a good number of agents/villains/bunker-buster bombs should be able to get in.

 

Surrounding your island base with a persistent FW should also cause other problems.... not the least of which is getting weather and local fauna in and out of the wall. Their paradise will turn into a wasteland after a very short time if the rain can't get in (it should just roll off the FW, into the sea!)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

I could see the base re-establishing the FW on the controller's (AI or PC) next phase' date=' but a good number of agents/villains/bunker-buster bombs should be able to get in.[/quote']

 

Hmmm...if the FW automatically reestablishes, what if we sever the heroes' link to the FW (ie get the computer on autopilot) and then give them a good reason to need to get out? That could be somethiung dangerous on the inside that they need help dealing with (or, if they have non-Super NPC's at their base as well, they need to get the noncombatants out so they don't get killed) or a crisis outside that they need to deal with ("Lois is being stalked by a Killer Robot!! And I can't save her because I'm trapped in our headquarters!!!" ).

[OddHat]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

If you let the players have a 50/50 hardened FW in the first place, why have "ordinary troopers" breaching it? Still, your game. Use three tac-nukes, 20d6RKA Explosions with Megascale 1"=1km. The first takes out the force wall and kills anything above ground. The second takes out all structures that could have survived the first and digs a pit. The third takes out anything left of the base and kills any characters without absurd defenses or desolid. Not enough for your group? Make the bombs x3 penetrating ADSO; you're the GM. You always "win", if you choose to.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

How did that happen?

 

My reaction exactly! I've never required my players to pay for HQ or computers and such, as they are usually just props for story-telling and have little effect on the game. Often they are paid for by corporations/orgs/govs that support the heroes, and that is the trade off... now I have cool plot hooks using those corps/orgs/govs.

 

Then again, my players never asked for a 50/50 hardened Force Wall for the base, either. WTF? Why this would be important in a supers game is beyond me. Now if the campaign was some kind of "super war" campaign, where the heroes could regularly expect to be assaulted by armies and super groups... then "ok" we are talking about spending points because it becomes a "power" essential to the heroes.

 

As to mechanical solutions, the best have already been provided. I'm more concerned with "Why in the world do the players think they need such a thing?"

[TaxiMan]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

The ordinary troopers roll out their specifically-designed Shield Penetrator ®, a 4d6 Continuous AOE Suppress Force Wall.

 

And a 50/50 Force Wall is in genre for something like The Authority's force fields (like the one that surrounded Gamorra).

[Mortuorum`]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Well' date=' you could allow them to coordinate. Normally that wouldn't have scratch all effect on BODY, you could rule otherwise against inanimate objects.[/quote']

 

I've done this. (House Rule Alert)

 

Take the maximum BODY rolled and add 1 for each additional attacker that successfully coordinated and hit the target.

[Old Man]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

I like the blow torch and Suppress ideas. Very effective and efficient.

[Beholder]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

I see that some background is required

 

Yes, my player's characters are playing in the major league. What I mean by that is that they were the first super powered beings in my campaign. They caused quite a stir around the world, they played always high profile and, in the end, had many governments in the world as enemies (they were considered the most dangerous terrorist threat of the world). I won't go into details but they were, in the majority of time, villains.

 

Much later in the campaign (2 years of real time, 4 of game time), they decided to create a haven for all the new super powered beings that were hunted around the world, slightly because of my PC and their reputation, and offer them a safe haven. So now they have an island that serves as a safe place to live for super powered beings and normals that wish to live with them. They signed a non aggression treaty with the US government, stating that in exchange for this treaty, the group would strongly invite all the supers of the world to live there and be out of normal human affaires. So the US, Germans and Japanese saw this as an opportunity to remove a large amount of supers from their territories, and thus, go further in installing homeland security(which the 3 nations adopted following major supers activities in their territories).

 

The primary reason for the force wall was to protect this pseudo-nation against aggressive nations around the world. They looked what a nuke could do, approximately 60 kills average and decided to make a force wall able to withstand the majority of those damages. So if, for example, Kim Il-sung decides to send on of his ballistic missile on their heads, they could possibly hope to survive. The normal humans on the island would most assuredly be all dead though, but hey! It’s specifically built for supers….

 

Also, it is up only in times of emergency, so do not fear, rain and birds will still be able to go in and out without any problems

 

Yes it's strong, but it serves only one purpose, to ensure a small amount of security against world nations. It has almost no in-game effect save for my specific next session.

 

In my next event, an ancient underwater race suddenly found out that their sacred pilgrimage place has been overtaken by the humans. They intend to assault the island to remove this heresy from the being on sacred ground. But, for once, this wall that had no purposes other than let my players sleep well, is in the way. I see that an infiltration of some kind, a Dispel, suppress or many other solutions are possible and I will be able to logically, without having my players feel cheated, be able to get the army inside the wall.

 

I saw that some of you suggested going for the super attack that would go right through but in my campaign, we have a relative limit of 90 active points for any attack powers. So I would be way out of my self imposed rules if I allowed that and my players would be, rightly, outraged. So I can hear you say: "You permitted a 50PD/ED hardened?" yes, since it had almost no effect on game play other than offer a safe ground for supers of the world.

 

So, does this makes my players powergamers, well in a way yes, since for a majority of their supers carreer, they fought against nations and their security forces. In other words, they have to face major power consequences.

 

So thanks for all the suggestions, it’s highly appreciated, and keep em coming. I Like the AoE supress that could punch a hole through and let troopers and bots go in and the Take the maximum BODY rolled and add 1 for each additional attacker that successfully coordinated and hit the target.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Taking the history of your campaign into consideration (and this does sound like a "super war" campaign, as I mentioned... so cool...) I would caution one thing. Don't let the FIRST TIME the Force Wall is important for the story, be the one time it doesn't work. Have an attack... maybe some cruise missile style attacks, or sorcery attacks or whatever fits... that show that the wall in in place, works like it should, and lets the heroes get their money's worth.

 

See how they react. Are they power hungry and aggressive, and despite their superior position, just go out and trash their enemies... or do they treat with them, ask "Why are you attacking?" and such.

 

If they act with civility from a position of strength, that could be cool, and having diplomatic meetings, with opposing sides arguing and threatening to attack could be really interesting, without a full scale invasion.

 

If they just smoosh the initial attack and then bunker down... ok... war is on!

 

Whatever you choose to "get through" the Force Wall... have it be appropriate in an SFX mind. Example: Generic Force Wall vs. Generic Drain attack... BORING!

 

Now, if the Force Wall was constructed using an alien Quantum Phase Generator that shunts fifth dimensional energy and creates the force wall from folded space... then have the attack be something like a mystical "anti-probability" projector which cuts off the generator from it's power source by shutting down the quantum field... or maybe they have a Seventh Space Fractal Conductor that they use to refold the time/space of the Force Wall and open a door... whatever... just be imaginitive, so that the WAY they break through is just as interesting as the fact that they did.

 

Anyway... just a suggestion.

 

Neil "The story is more important than the mechanics" Carver

[Rapier]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

The ordinary troopers roll out their specifically-designed Shield Penetrator ®, a 4d6 Continuous AOE Suppress Force Wall.

 

And a 50/50 Force Wall is in genre for something like The Authority's force fields (like the one that surrounded Gamorra).

I could very easily see something like this:

 

MP Agent Based Laser Rifle

u - Focussed Beam: 4d6 RKA

u - Standard Beam: 12d6 EB (vs ED)

u - Cutting Torch: 4d6 Dispel Wall, Continuous

 

You are loosely defining the Dispel to effect all walls and wall like structures. This is little more than your standard laser rifle MP.

 

Good catch, TM!

[John T]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

A couple of questions geared toward a story-based (rather than mechanic-s based) means of bypassing the FW:

 

Does the race in question have access to communication and computer tech roughly equivalent to the PCs?

 

Is the FW in any way controlled or accessible by their base computer?

 

Is the computer connected to the outside world (satellite, direct connection, etc)?

 

If "Yes" to all of these, have your race access their computer from outside and shut off the FW. Might end up with an entertaining sequence of contested rolls with a PC trying to re-erect the FW while baddies continue to swarm in...

 

John T

[Beholder]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

Now, if the Force Wall was constructed using an alien Quantum Phase Generator ....

 

Funny, you have that part exactly right on target

 

The De Facto leader of the team is called light master and the protection is based on his powers, which comes from aliens called Antaraans.

 

And he specifically said it was Quantum based.

[Beholder]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

A couple of questions geared toward a story-based (rather than mechanic-s based) means of bypassing the FW:

 

Does the race in question have access to communication and computer tech roughly equivalent to the PCs?

John T

Technology equivalent, yes, slightly higher even, but completelly incompatible.

 

A

Is the FW in any way controlled or accessible by their base computer?

 

No , it's commanded through a dumb terminal by operators.

Would have been fun though.

 

 

But I like the idea of RDU Neil make it a stand still and see how the super powered population reacts.

 

Gonna be fun

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

I could very easily see something like this:

 

MP Agent Based Laser Rifle

u - Focussed Beam: 4d6 RKA

u - Standard Beam: 12d6 EB (vs ED)

u - Cutting Torch: 4d6 Dispel Wall, Continuous

 

I assume the third slot is Suppress, not DIspel.

 

For the same 60 AP, this could be a 1 point RKA, Penetrating x 22. Useless for anything but cutting force walls (por, I suppose, slowly cutting anything). 1d6 Standard Effect RKA could be 6x Penetrating, avoiding the cheesy rulig on 1 point Penetrating KA's.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Breaking through a force wall of 50PD/ED Hardened

 

AP Teleportation.

 

The AP on the Teleport cancels out the FW's Hardened advantage, allowing the teleporters to get through the FW.....

 

Simple!