Prof. Muerte really truly dead?

[Castaigne]

I'm going to be running a Death of Professor Muerte flashback adventure tomorrow in preparation for having him return much-transformed several months from now. I've checked all the references in Champions and Champions Universe and I searched the boards. One of the posts in the Cheating Death thread said that Steve said Muerte is never officially coming back, but I can't find the original reference.

 

I'd hate to bring back my version of him if he's going to be in a future Champions supplement or adventure, so If anyone could point me to where Steve sealed Muerte's fate, or if anyone has the inside dope on the Prof., my players would certainly appreciate it. One or two of them might know, but I can't ask without giving the adventure away.

[Blue]

May have been part of the old boards. A search on this board with "muerte" yields several second-hand references to the info you mention, and one Post where Steve says "There are No Plans to bring back Los Assessinos."

 

You'll probably never get a better commitment than than.

[Castaigne]

It could be Steve expressed a dislike for Prof. Muerte on the old boards, and the name Terror Inc. is certainly in very bad taste at the present time, but one of the posts on the Cheating Death thread (not the Asesinos thread, which comes up on a search for 'Muerte' because of references to El Muerto Obscuro) mentions Steve saying that Professor Muerte will definitely not be back.

 

It's not vitally important, and Steve did provide the many Champions GMs who've used Terror Inc. with plenty of opportunities to bring him back, but because the circumstances of his death are so obviously negotiable I don't want to make a lot of plans and then have him show up in an upcoming Champions sourcebook or adventure that I wasn't aware of, particularly if he and Giganto get the same excellent treatment that Scorpia and Feuermacher do in CKC.

 

In any case Hernan Cortez will hopefully apparently breathe his last in the arms of one of the PCs (you never can tell what the players are going to do) tomorrow evening.

[Hermit]

I don't recall the details of the conversation where Steve posted the idea, but someone mentioned that one could easily make a Professor Muerte II. I think I'm going to go with that. A new Terror Inc might make good adveseries for my PCs.

[allen]

I was one of the people on the "Cheating Death" thread that mentioned Steve said Prof. Muerte wouldn't be back; I can't remember his exact phrasing, but he posted the comment on the old boards.

[Steve Long]

Your recollection is correct. I can guarantee you he's never coming back in the official continuity, and I'm sure I said so on at least one occasion (on the old boards).

 

But of course, do as thou wilt in thy own campaign. There's always an "out" in the world of the comics.

[Balok]

Muerte is, in fact, muerto. The details can be found in Feuermacher's entry under the Eurostar section of Conquerors, Killers, and Crooks.

[CPaladino]

I never saw the old thread; BUT, I really hope "Terror Inc." as a name has nothing to do with it. I'm neither defending nor attacking Prof. Muerte, I just don't want this to be a politically correct decision about Terrorism, or stereotyping Latinos or anything else...

 

I would hate for us to HAVE to stay politically correct to appease the people who may or may not get offended. One of the (few) things I LIKE about the new direction of D&D is the Book of Vile Darkness... It is a kickback to all the oldschool 1st edition demons/devils/truely evil stuff. The book is out there and if you want to use it, good, you now have the option to pick up an "official" book with "official" rules on topics not touched in a LONG time.

 

I haven't picked up the Newest Champs. books w/ characters in them, but I hope we're NOT being PC all over the place. (I'm REALLY waiting for the 5th version of Dark Champions, but we'll see...) In M&M (mutants and masterminds) they have the "White Knight" (basically a super-powered KKK guy) who actually fits into a SLIGHTLY gritty 4-color campaign w/o being comically stupid, nor "Punisher" realistic either.

 

I liked (in theory) the Widows and Orphans book for Hero. So I know they can hit on "taboo" material as they've done it before.

[lemming]

Originally posted by CPaladino

I would hate for us to HAVE to stay politically correct to appease the people who may or may not get offended.

I think Steve said he found Terror Inc. redundant and didn't like them. Eurostar does quite a bit terrorism as well as one example.

[Brick]

I always saw Professor Muerte as a good alternative to using Doctor Destroyer. DD is great, sure, but if you want to give your heroes a fighting chance, that's another story.

 

But who says it was really him? Teleios could easily have provided the Professor with a clone. And now that Scorpia and Feuermacher think that he is dead... let's just say that they could be in for a very rude awakening.

 

No plans for bringing back the Asesinos also? What a shame. Personally, they are one of my favorite villain teams - and I don't think that all Latinos are criminals. Political correctness is one thing, but one can go only so far with that. I am a German myself, and I don't mind that half of all German villains are portrayed as Nazis. It is NOT the reality, but that's part of the genre. Comic books are defined by using cliches - mad scientists, strong-jawed heroes, deathtraps etc.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[CPaladino]

Here Here Brick! Stereotypes in comics rule (and make things easy for a GM)

 

Everyone knows:

-All Germans are Nazis

-All Italians are mobsters (I, by the way, am Italian)

-All aliens are evil and bent on the domination of Earth

-The more ugly something is the more evil it is (not always true the other way around though, see below)

-All police are Irish

-All Russians hate anything non-russian (and are named Boris, or Ivan)

-All techies wear glasses

-All gorgeous women are airheads

-All inner city gang members are Black or Mexican

-Anyone who uses magic is a withered away old man with a LONG white beard

-The barbarian always wields a weapon larger than most of the other PCs

-The more evil the girl the more attractive they are (c'mon Bamusa the She-devil always is smoking hot w/ little red horns and giant bat-wings that everyone just ignores)

 

"Dude, your girlfriend is HOT!"

"Yeah, I know"

"'Cept for them giant bat-wings though"

"What wings?"

[Captain Obvious]

Hmm...if I was the one making the choice, I'd say boot out Eurostar and keep Terror, Inc. I've always liked the name as well as the characters better....

[Monolith]

I never really cared for Professor Muerte. Every time he was ever used the players would just spend their time making "poor-man's Dr. Destroyer" comments about him, in character and out. The villain never received any respect within the game.

 

I do very much like Giganto, Scorpia, and Feur (Feuermacher) though. Scorpia and Feuermach, both being European, make a much better fit for the European-based Eurostar than they do as part of a South American Terror, Inc. I could also see Giganto resurfacing as part of the South American VIPER.

 

My personal take on Giganto is that he is building a coven of support amongst the natives in the Amazon (they treat him as if he were a stone god), and that he will resurface with his followers. His goal is to get revenge on Scorpia and Feuermacher for killing Professor Muerte, but Giganto will eventually end up being a pawn to his "high priest" who issues orders to the native tribesman for the "god" since Giganto is mute. The high priest will end up being a shaman bent on his own schemes for domination who will cast-out the false god and use the native warriors to his own end.

 

I think that Holocaust is a much better fit as the new "Professor Muerte." Holocaust does not have the fanatical links to Dr. Destroyer (thus no in-jokes) and also has the power level to make him a good Dr. Destroyer-type enemy for starting level killers. The only thing he does not have his Muerte's Spanish accent. I could easily see Holocaust creating a new Terror, Inc; possibly even with Giganto as his chief lackey after he is cast-out by the high priest.

[Castaigne]

I always liked Muerte. His Soliloquy Bubble forced the PCs to fight his minions and hordes of satisfyingly (for the players at least) incompetent agents while I got to chew scenery. I also re-worked Giganto years ago with environment-absorbing Growth and a changed origin.

 

 

My plan is to set Muerte up as the Magneto-like foil for the PCs I was always disappointed didn't make it into the original Champions Universe. Ideally he'll be philosophically almost diametrically opposed to the Heroes, but still have enough in common with them that both sides will keep trying to bring each other around.

 

I'm bringing him back as a subtler figure with expanded force powers and permanently fused into the battlesuit. He'll have the Mech Agents DEMON rightly lost and some competent covert agents along the lines of Demonflux instead of an army of sub-average goons. If Demonspawn and Demonflux appear in a future sourcebook I'll make their agents magical and Muerte's technology-based, and if not then Chameleon will make a great addition to Muerte's organization.

 

 

And thanks for the official word, Mr. Long.

[JohnOSpencer]

(Looking from side to side in the hopes none of my players are listening.) My PCs found an old, scarred man in a villians HQ apparently in some sort of healing tank. Elsewhere in the base the PCs found some burned and melted armor the villians were examining. They rescued the guy, who has no memory. He now hangs out at their base and makes gadgets for them. They havn't really tried to find out who he is. But soon, they will find out nice old "sparky"(that's what they call him) is actually Professor Muerte.

 

John

[Balok]

I saw Professor Muerte as a character created to battle a team that had faced Dr. Destroyer a little too often -- so the GM wanted someone at a similar scale.

 

The problem is, Muerte was *too much* like Destroyer, leaving some (such as me) with the feeling that he was a poor man's version of the arch villain.

 

I like the name fine -- originally, I had a notion to recast the professor as a worker in the dark arts who raised undead servants (Professor Death fits in well with such powers). But now THAT niche has been filled, too.

 

In my campaign, he'll likely stay in limbo unless/until I come up with a concept for him that I really like.

 

I think one of Steve's motives for eliminating Muerte was that he felt two (?) of Muerte's Terror, Inc. team members properly belonged in Eurostar.

 

Many years ago, I created an organization called the World Terror Alliance for my campaign. They were terrorists for hire -- no agenda other than cash. They were inspired by James Bond's old enemy SPECTRE. They haven't appeared in a long time -- not since well before 9/11 -- and I haven't yet decided whether to quietly retire them. On one side of the coin is current world events, and the prominent role agenda driven terrorism plays. On the other is realism and playability -- there's some value in presenting terrorists that the *characters* can beat up in a world where (all too often in some parts of the world) there's nothing people can do about terrorism beyond hoping it overlooks them.

[Castaigne]

Whoa.

 

JohnOSpencer, you are brilliant. I may well have to change my plans and steal your idea lock stock and barrel, even if it turns out to be a clever plan to infiltrate the Hero's organization. "Sparky" indeed. On my last thumb through CKC I also noticed that Lady Blue's Force Projection Powers are uncannily similar to Prof. Muerte's Powers in Classic Enemies. Hmm...

 

And if, inspired by Balok, I have a James Bond novel (not movie) inspired villain take over Terror, Inc. after Muerte's 'death,' I'm set. That's my campaign. I already based Muerte's HQ on Dr. No's guano mine.

 

 

I always saw Muerte as a villain designed to battle a team that Dr. Destroyer would turn into a thin red paste with little or no effort.

 

 

And regardless of where anyone thinks Scorpia might belong, she'll never really be a member of anything.

[JohnOSpencer]

Originally posted by Castaigne

Whoa.

 

JohnOSpencer, you are brilliant. I may well have to change my plans and steal your idea lock stock and barrel, even if it turns out to be a clever plan to infiltrate the Hero's organization. "Sparky" indeed. On my last thumb through CKC I also noticed that Lady Blue's Force Projection Powers are uncannily similar to Prof. Muerte's Powers in Classic Enemies. Hmm...

 

 

Thanks. Actually, he's been making them force field belts that most members have come to rely on. He's got one custom made for almost all of them.

 

I can't wait til they're done with the current plots so I can start the "Return of Muerte!"

 

John

[SuperPheemy]

I would be sooooo tempted to coin a "Hector Con Carne" accent from the Grim & Evil cartoon for Muerte.

[Captain Obvious]

Maybe all of Muerte is dead, except for his BRAIN!

 

Those con Carne troops seem to be a little less capable than Terror, Inc's agents, but not much so....

[Kevin Scrivner]

What REALLY happened to the Professor

 

"Si, si. I had completed my Atomic-Powered Cyclotrode and was about to take my rightful place as Master of the World. And I would have done it, too, were it not for those meddling kids and their foolish dog!"

[Marchwarden]

There is one thing that bothers me, though...why did Scorpia and Feuermacher melt the "body" into molten slag and drop it into the ocean? It's not as if they have much need to hide the evidence - they're already well known to be multiple-murderers, and San Muerte isn't exactly going to have much luck extraditing them from Europe.

 

Hmm...

 

"Yeah, boss, we got rid of Muerte. The body? Oh, it's unrecognizable and inaccessible, and nobody else witnessed the killing. But look - we brought some of his old gadgets and the number of his bank account!"

 

How's this - Fiacho believes that he turned Scorpia and Feuermacher; in fact, Muerte turned Mentalla. Her task? To reassure Fiacho that telepathy validates their story, then to bide her time along with the two double agents until Muerte gives the signal.

 

bwa ha ha ha ha

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Marchwarden

There is one thing that bothers me, though...why did Scorpia and Feuermacher melt the "body" into molten slag and drop it into the ocean? It's not as if they have much need to hide the evidence - they're already well known to be multiple-murderers, and San Muerte isn't exactly going to have much luck extraditing them from Europe.

My guess would be that since Teleios is a fairly well-known within the mercenary community they did not want to take any chances that Professor M might have any chance of coming back for revenge. The body was destroyed and hidden to the point of making it virtually impossible for cloning to be possible.

[Balok]

I'd say simple rage. They'd had enough. What they did wouldn't keep Teleios from restoring Muerte: if Teleios restores Muerte, it would be to fulfill a contract with the Professor. That contract would have included the necessary DNA records. I can't remember if Teleios can record a brain circuitry pattern and play it back into a clone brain or not, but if he can, I'm certain he'd receive periodic updates from Muerte to be used in the event of restoration. And that would be a fact of his existance that Muerte would share with no one.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Balok

I'd say simple rage. They'd had enough. What they did wouldn't keep Teleios from restoring Muerte: if Teleios restores Muerte, it would be to fulfill a contract with the Professor.

If a body had been left behind, it would have been a simple thing for the loyal Giganto to have cut a deal with Teleios to clone the Professor. Giganto might have offered service in exchange. Without that body that would become a much more difficult proposition.

 

While rage and anger, especially on Scorpia's part, would have been a part of it, not having to constantly look over your shoulder for the attack from a cloned Muerte would be a good thing on their part.