Monolith Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Champions has a long-standing tradition of using Marvel (and currently DC) "clones" when designing its various heroes and villains, and yet I cannot seem to recall a clone of Juggernaut ever being introduced. Has there ever been a Juggernaut clone written up (and thus either my memory or collection is faulty) or is that traditionally been the one villain deemed too inappropriate (invulnerability issues) to carry over into Champions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterhawk Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 I always thought that Dreadnaught (orginally Juggernaut I believe in Enemies III) was supposed to be representative of the unstoppable brick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 I actually had a Juggernaught kind of bad guy, who I called... wait for it... Holocaust. CKC's is better though, and it's been awhile since I've used mine, so I'll be looking for a new replacment. Officially, I thought Drednaught was it. Shirak from CKC might be the closest thing to 5th edition 'unstopable' foe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson-Hawk Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 PRESS RELEASE FROM THE OFFICE OF FOXBAT FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE The Fox-Fans have cried out for an unstoppable foe, one whose very protective nature makes him incapable of being harmed by virtually any form of attack mustered by mortal hands! Well, Foxbat has listened! And the Great and Mighty Foxbat, Purveyor of Protection as well as Destruction (and Cherry-Flavored Whipped Cream Pies) has in his Master Plan just the answer to this driving dillemna! Heroes, beware! The Illustrious, Nefarious Foxbat shall be striking all chain grocery stores, Toys 'R' Us outlets, and Crispy Creme Donuts stores. Reynolds Wrap Aluminum Foil will make an excellent shield against energy attacks. Play-Doh will make an excellent armor for deflecting physical attacks. And Crispy Creme Donuts are so distractingly delicious that I will become immune to all mental attacks as well. So fear me, heroes of Millenium City and beyond! The Mighty and Malevolent Foxbat will become invincible, unstoppable, and totally enamored with the Cateran! For Foxbat is truly the Cateran's paramour and sidekick! Now I must remember to raid the floral department of said grocery stores.... (THE PRESS AGENTS FOR FOXBAT WOULD LIKE TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE SLIGHT DIVERSION. BE WARNED, HEROES, FOR FOXBAT STRIKES AGAIN!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 I had one of my own too, called hmmm, I can't remember his name from work. He had bought his strenght twice with the extra as only to be used for Casual Strength. So he got his 75 str as Casual Strength, thats how he was able to smash things and still fight. I think his name was Onslaught, but I might have changed it after marvel brought one out. I was wondering where the Superman clone was, myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 Originally posted by Enforcer84 I had one of my own too, called hmmm, I can't remember his name from work. He had bought his strenght twice with the extra as only to be used for Casual Strength. So he got his 75 str as Casual Strength, thats how he was able to smash things and still fight. I think his name was Onslaught, but I might have changed it after marvel brought one out. I was wondering where the Superman clone was, myself. Superman clone? Ah, that would be Viperia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 But is she still about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 Don't know. New Viper book isn't out yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 According to what I've seen about the new VIPER book, she's in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 Champions Universe mentions the "almost-indefeatable" Viperia among VIPER's supervillain cadre, on p. 112. Given the generally increased power level among 5E villains, I'm not sure I want to see the definition of "almost indefeatable". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 Now I'm hoping Hero Games and Guardians of Order do a hero-on-villain Superhero Showdown so we can see Sentinel vs Viperia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Man Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 I had two sorts of like Juggernaught (back in 4th ed). First was... Force of Nature! Big, green, no mouth (hey, I was playing Magic back then). Funniest thing was, by absolute accident, the PC's figured out he didn't have flash defense and hit him with some mace borrowed from a nearby policeman. The other was called Shockwave. Absorbtion vs kinetic energy with the +2 advantage that it added to all his physical characteristics and powers at once. (with 90 total capacity) He went from spd 3 to 12, his run became phenominal, strength went from 30 to 120... you get the picture. Fortunately, he was vulnerable to mental assault (though VERY hard to con-stun when he was boosted). Favorite maneuver of course was move-through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 My Juggernaut/Hulk clone would have to be Devastator. Other than his justifiable overconfidence, he has no vulnerabilities or weaknesses. The only way to take him down is to just keep on pounding away. I'm sure DocMan can tell you all kinds of stories about battles against the Big D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 I figured that Grond was the Hulk clone.... I didn't think that the incarnation of Devastator that I saw in the Champions book would match up to Juggernaught and Buffalo from Enemies III seems much too dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 I always thought Dennes Mahonie's pet supervillian The Unstopable Creep was a Jugernaught clone. Of course, I never seen a writup of him. What I can proably think up was that he was basicly a guy with normal base stats with lots of defensive powers. A 50 PD, 50 ED Armor, -25 Knockback Resistance, 50 Mental Defences, -25 Lack Of Weakness, ect. Of course, all double Hardened (+1). Mabie even some Damage Reduction also. So, how could he be stoped? Well, he can't be harmed, but he STILL only has a Speed of 2 and a Strength of 10. And no offensive powers at all. So, if the heros ignore him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Unstoppable!!! My own take on a Jugs clone I created for a Mutant Acdemy game I ran was a guy with 30 RPD/RED, 75% Resistant Mental, Physical, and Energy Damage Reduction, 10 Mental Defense, 20 or so KB Resistance, 15 Power Defense, 10 Lack of Weakness, about 5 points of permanent growth, a good 80 STR, 35 CON, 25 BODY statline, 4 SPD, appropriate figured stats and alot of attitude. I thought it was beautiful when a PC used his AP EB Blast on the reinforced floor of the penthouse office the battle was occuring and said NPC's casual STR dropped him 40 floors to the parking garage (I ruled his casual STR and increased weight form his disads and growth coupled with falling about 8 to 10 feet a floor blew through just about every floor til the parking garage below.) Superhero Battle = Property Damage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 I have to agree with winterhawk and Hermit that the Dreadnought more or less filled the role of Juggernaut in the 4E Champions Universe. That's fairly clear from the description and illustration of the suit, the type of powers it grants (great strength and invulnerability, not to mention Tunnelling through DEF 36!), the identifying quote ("You can't stop a dreadnought!"), and the fact that when the armor first appeared in Champions III it was called - wait for it - "Juggernaut". Hermit, Shirak reminds me more of Marvel's Ultimo - you know, giant irresistable construct existing only to destroy. The characterization is quite different from that of Juggernaut, even if the results they leave behind are similar. I used the Dreadnought several times, mostly as out of Classic Enemies, although with some background changes. Biggest writeup change I made was to add the Armor Piercing Advantage to his 70 STR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 so where does one find a write-up for Dreadnaught? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 I never saw the Dreadnaught armor as unstoppable. It has 23 Mental Defenses, 20 Power Defense, and 30rPD/30rED with hardening. However, it does not have Lack of Weakness - even the original 4th Ed. Crusader can hurt this thing! Yeah, the 60 CON, 30 REC and 99 STUN make it almost impossible to stun, but it also only has DEX 8 and +6 levels with punching, making its total OCV 9 with just a single attack. And at DCV 3, even Aunt May couild hit it from a mile away with her eyes closed. And with a total running of 12", it can;t get away. Yeah, its got that 4" of tunneling through DEF 36, but the hole does not fill in behind it. You let the brick go toe-to-toe with it and put his combat levels into DCV, odds are the Dreadnaught won't be able to land a blow, and have everyone else coordinate their attacks. The Dreadnaught goes down just fine, making it a far cry from the neigh-unstoppable Juggernaught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted May 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 I have to agree with Klytus here. Dreadnought was only slightly tougher than an average PC brick. 70 STR, 30 DEF, 8 DEX, ect. Most starting PC bricks would be 60 STR, 30 DEF, 18-20 DEX. Granted he did have 99 STUN, but the average brick starts with around 60, and Dreadnought did have to fight an entire team. My players always cringed away from Giganto before they worried about Dreadnought coming down the street. I guess when I think of Juggernaut I'm thinking of the unstoppable foe. Someone who is basically immune to damage and can put out with the best of the best in the world. My vision of a CU Juggernaut would be somewhere between Dr. Destroyer and Grond. Dreadnought does not fit that mold to me, either in power-level or character concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted May 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by Mastermind so where does one find a write-up for Dreadnaught? The latest write-up is in Classic Enemies. You can find copies for sale on eBay from time to time. There is also a pdf, but I do not think DOJ is still selling that. Basically Dreadnought is a normal agent who runs around in an old Nazi powered armor suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by Mastermind so where does one find a write-up for Dreadnaught? The 4E writeup would be in the villain compendium, Classic Enemies, often available on eBay and used game dealers who carry Hero stuff. Many of the villains in Conquerors, Killers and Crooks can be found there, but often with differences from the new versions. There are quite a few villains in CE that didn't make it into the new Champions Universe, as well as a detailed writeup of the Stronghold superprison. IMO it's well worth picking up used at a reduced price. Klytus, I certainly agree with you that the Dreadnought was nowhere near as powerful as Juggernaut, but stylistically it's very similar, and the description of the armor suggests using it for similar encounters. It could function as an "unstoppable" foe as-is depending on the power level of the PCs, of course, and the design is simple enough that Dreadnought would be very easy to beef up as tough as you would want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by Klytus I never saw the Dreadnaught armor as unstoppable. It has 23 Mental Defenses, 20 Power Defense, and 30rPD/30rED with hardening. However, it does not have Lack of Weakness - even the original 4th Ed. Crusader can hurt this thing! Yeah, the 60 CON, 30 REC and 99 STUN make it almost impossible to stun, but it also only has DEX 8 and +6 levels with punching, making its total OCV 9 with just a single attack. Juggernaut doesn't exactly have an 18 OCV. And at DCV 3, even Aunt May couild hit it from a mile away with her eyes closed. You never see Juggy dodge. And with a total running of 12", it can;t get away. Yeah, its got that 4" of tunneling through DEF 36, but the hole does not fill in behind it. Juggy don't move fast, neither. And the holes he leaves when he tears through stuff don't close (unless it's through collapsing). You let the brick go toe-to-toe with it and put his combat levels into DCV, odds are the Dreadnaught won't be able to land a blow, and have everyone else coordinate their attacks. The Dreadnaught goes down just fine, making it a far cry from the neigh-unstoppable Juggernaught. He's not unstoppable, but then Crusader is a far cry from Batman, too. Dreadnaught is a poor man's Juggernaut. I reworked Dreadnaught, removing the "Does Not Affect Figureds" from his stats (which only increased the cost a little bit), and then lowered back some of the raised stats (like END, and maybe a little Stun, I think). He ended up the same points, with a 40 Defense, some Lack of Weakness, and something like 150 Stun. Now that's unstoppable (at least in a standard Champs game). Maybe I'll give him AE: Hex on his Str (really big fists) instead of the OCV levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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