Wwyddiyryc?

[tinman]

(What Would You Do Differently If You Rebooted Your Campaign?)

 

I've decided to bite the bullet and do a complete reboot within my campaign world. The main reason is that the PC's have dug themselves into such a deep hole with regards to their relations with (insert entire world here) that I doubt they'll be able to pull themselves out. The game has become frustrating for several players because of this, and I'm not having as much fun with it as I'd like (or deserve) to have.

 

The biggest change will be that the characters will have a clean slate (for as long as that lasts). I will be using the same campaign world, but with changes to reflect what I now know works and doesn't work. I will also be taking out campaign elements that I now cringe about and putting in new and cool ideas that I've had (and which will surely make me cringe years down the road).

 

So in all this I started wondering what other folks might do differently with their games if they had it all to do over again.

[Blue]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

I'd transpose the campaign to Millenium City. I built my campaign before the sourcebook; It would be nice to use the book itself pretty much in tact (rather than in pieces as I have).

 

I'd save the time-travel snaffus for later. It's a hard way for players to start a campaign: trying to figure out what the heck I'm talking about

 

I'd use more out-of-the-book villains. Mine don't seem to stand up to the sheer numbers of the team of heroes.

 

I'd introduce the major villain in the first storyarc, probably in the first two sessions.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

Setting and PCs are fine in my campaign, as is the overall plot, but I almost overcomplicated things to the point where I nearly defeated myself with detail and unnecessary 'development' stuff. I'd simply use more genre staples to get back to the fun aspect of gaming...which I'm trying to do now.

[Chuckg]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

350 points, nuttin'. I'm handing out 425, so people can actually give me fully-realized concepts with detailed life experience, not bare-bones outlines of concepts with /tabula rasa/ pasts.

 

(Man, decent skill lists /cost/.)

[tinman]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

350 points, nuttin'. I'm handing out 425, so people can actually give me fully-realized concepts with detailed life experience, not bare-bones outlines of concepts with /tabula rasa/ pasts.

 

(Man, decent skill lists /cost/.)

 

I'm dropping my PC's back to 250 or thereabouts. I like a good selection of skills on the PC's, but their previous characters had wandered up into the 700 point range and I want them to have a look at the world from a little closer to ground level again.

[tinman]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

One thing a friend of mine did that I thought was interesting was provide a one-time discount on skills. Any skill bought during character creation received an automatic upgrade to the next level (8- became 11-, 11- became attr/5+9-, attr/5+9- gained +1).

[gojira]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

Could you explain what went wrong with your current campaign? I'm interested to learn so I don't make the same sorts of mistakes. Kind of a GMs helping GMs sorta thing. Plus others might like to know too.

 

I'm dropping my PC's back to 250 or thereabouts. I like a good selection of skills on the PC's' date=' but their previous characters had wandered up into the 700 point range and I want them to have a look at the world from a little closer to ground level again.[/quote']

 

Wow! That's a big jump! But I really like the 250 point range, it's where Champions started.

 

One thought I had was to sart with 250 pts., sans most skills, perks, contacts etc. Then have the characters write up a good background, then add up to 100 points based on the background alone. The result would be 350 pt characters, but the power level would be 250 points (I'm thinking 8-12 DCs).

 

I haven't tried this yet so I'm not sure if it would work.

[tinman]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

Could you explain what went wrong with your current campaign? I'm interested to learn so I don't make the same sorts of mistakes. Kind of a GMs helping GMs sorta thing. Plus others might like to know too.

I tend to run strongly simulationist games, and my current campaign is a "supers in the real world" setting. Right off the bat the PC's took on a haughty attitude concerning government authorities and law enforcement. Essentially they acted expediently and beyond the law when they felt it necessary and refused to cooperate with the authorities when they found it inconvenient.

 

This attitude led to strained relations and no desire on the part of the powers that be to give the PC's any benefit of the doubt or slack at all. Over the length of the campaign the situation became worse and much more tense. After the PC's were instrumental in the destruction of Manhattan (mostly through overconfidence) they became hunted criminals.

 

The players were frustrated by this and wanted their characters to regain the public trust somehow, but the hubris of their PC's and the magnitude of the mistakes they had made kept it from being a real possibility.

 

Hence the reboot. The players are putting together an "all-star" team made up of their favourite characters and everyone is starting with a clean slate and a better attitude. Sort of like Marvel's Ultimate stuff in reverse.

 

Wow! That's a big jump! But I really like the 250 point range, it's where Champions started.

 

One thought I had was to sart with 250 pts., sans most skills, perks, contacts etc. Then have the characters write up a good background, then add up to 100 points based on the background alone. The result would be 350 pt characters, but the power level would be 250 points (I'm thinking 8-12 DCs).

 

I haven't tried this yet so I'm not sure if it would work.

It's worth a try, but you may find that you have player resentment if everyone doesn't start at an even point total. Some groups are better about this than others.

[BcAugust]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

Actually, I have done reboots of campaigns (Mainly D&D and Vampire). The main thing in D&D was different plots, more suitable to the characters. The main thing in Vampire was making one of the main characters of the first campaign which went horribly wrong a villian NPC from the start of the second, and changing things so characters looked more like they turned out. (For instance, one player asked, and recieved, that his character not have Code of Honor, given how badly the other players abused it. I gave him the points anyway, cause he would still mostly play it, just not to the insane flaw level.)

[Susano]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

I'd borrow a lot of from Astro City, Top 10, and the Pictures that could be a Super team thread. Meaning -- using "science heroes" instead of "super heroes," making the Second World War much more GODLIKE -- with more supers, and a lot more strange technology (like armored walkers and such). Hmm... some of the plot elements from Astro City as well as many of the characters (I really like the idea of the Old Solider and Silver Agent).

 

Funny... I'd been thinking about how I'd rebuild my old supers game if I ever dusted it off.

[hooligan x]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

Rather than reboot, you should Thunderbolt your PCs. New costumes and name equal clean slate. Fun resumes.

[tinman]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

Rather than reboot' date=' you should Thunderbolt your PCs. New costumes and name equal clean slate. Fun resumes.[/quote']

 

I thought about it, but I don't think they could pull it off. Too much "the talking monkeys should stay out of our way if they want to stay alive" and not enough "wow, we really went too far and have learned our lesson". The players want to play heroes, but their characters don't want to be heroes.

[hooligan x]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

I thought about it' date=' but I don't think they could pull it off. Too much "the talking monkeys should stay out of our way if they want to stay alive" and not enough "wow, we really went too far and have learned our lesson". The players want to play heroes, but their characters don't want to be heroes.[/quote']

So have the players make new characters and turn the old ones into villians.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

I'd write everything down.

 

no, that's it. We got lost in our campaign somewhere and had to sort of reboot out of simple forgetfulness.

[tinman]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

So have the players make new characters and turn the old ones into villians.

The problem is that the world that has developed around them is violently anti-metahuman almost entirely due to their actions. Those metas who aren't on international shoot-on-sight lists are being rounded up and pressed into government service or quietly assassinated. Any new metahuman "do-gooders" are going to be facing a very steep uphill climb (though starting their careers by sorting out the old PC's would be the best possible start).

 

At this point though, a reboot is really the only way to cleanse the pallet and make the campaign enjoyable for all concerned.

[hooligan x]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

I'd write everything down.

 

no, that's it. We got lost in our campaign somewhere and had to sort of reboot out of simple forgetfulness.

No joke! Since I am of the "pull it out your butt" school, I have an NPC who has three names so far because we all forgot what I called him in the game before.

 

Me: "That guy who works for Signora Pugioli calls you."

Player: "Who?"

Me: "That guy! You know, that guy!"

Player "You mean Whats-his-name?"

Me: "That F***ing guy!"

[tinman]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

No joke! Since I am of the "pull it out your butt" school, I have an NPC who has three names so far because we all forgot what I called him in the game before.

 

Me: "That guy who works for Signora Pugioli calls you."

Player: "Who?"

Me: "That guy! You know, that guy!"

Player "You mean Whats-his-name?"

Me: "That F***ing guy!"

 

That's totally me too.

[hooligan x]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

At this point though' date=' a reboot is really the only way to cleanse the pallet and make the campaign enjoyable for all concerned.[/quote']

Ok, so first, require CVK as a disad. Decide the tone before character creation and make sure everyone is onboard. And post every week on the "This week on Champions..." thread.

 

Good Luck!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

No joke! Since I am of the "pull it out your butt" school, I have an NPC who has three names so far because we all forgot what I called him in the game before.

 

Me: "That guy who works for Signora Pugioli calls you."

Player: "Who?"

Me: "That guy! You know, that guy!"

Player "You mean Whats-his-name?"

Me: "That F***ing guy!"

 

no bloody kidding huh. tha'ts us to a tee as well. So glad we're not the only ones.

[Jhamin]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

I did a warm-reboot of my campaign when we switched to 5th. (Big Crisis-style summer crossover followed by a reboot only the PCs are aware of)

 

What I did

 

-Added Millenium City, San Angelo, and Vibora bay to my world. None of them are the PC's home city, but adding other "super cities" to the planet goes along way toward establishing that DC/Marvel shared world experience with only one PC group.

 

-Renamed the campaign city from Hudson to Horizen. I used a very 4 color Hudson from 4th when I started the game, mostly because it was more detailed than anything else I could find. As the game went on the city became more and more distinct and I just couldn't abide calling it Hudson anymore.

 

-Adjusted a few character building choices that had come to bother me. For example, I lowered the average Dex in the campaign by 6 for supers while keeping Viper/PRIMUS/Thugs at existing levels. As everyone dropped the same amount super on super fights stayed the same but even 500 point supers couldn't just ignore Viper. It is also possible to play a brick who isn't an olympic athelete.

 

-Added a *lot* of the CKC villians and the battle of Detroit (which was the final showdown after Day of the Destroyer, an important event in my old campaign). The new villians are alot of fun, but it's hard to slip them into established roles without a reboot. (You don't need Telios and Malachite, and Malachite was starting to draw Stewie Griffon jokes)

[Jhamin]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

No joke! Since I am of the "pull it out your butt" school, I have an NPC who has three names so far because we all forgot what I called him in the game before.

 

Me: "That guy who works for Signora Pugioli calls you."

Player: "Who?"

Me: "That guy! You know, that guy!"

Player "You mean Whats-his-name?"

Me: "That F***ing guy!"

 

 

I am blessed by having Hex as a core player in my group. The girl can remember names of random Bar Patrons from two campaigns ago....

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

The problem is that the world that has developed around them is violently anti-metahuman almost entirely due to their actions. Those metas who aren't on international shoot-on-sight lists are being rounded up and pressed into government service or quietly assassinated. Any new metahuman "do-gooders" are going to be facing a very steep uphill climb (though starting their careers by sorting out the old PC's would be the best possible start).

 

At this point though, a reboot is really the only way to cleanse the pallet and make the campaign enjoyable for all concerned.

 

Hmmm......

 

Sorry--

I just wanted to think about this for a minute.

 

Given what you've said about the current characters and the current players, the idea of simply vilifying the current supers and starting new ones in the same world has a lot of merit.

 

If you're players actually _do_ want to play heroes-- and that's "heroes" with a capital "noble good guys," then this setting sounds tailor-made for them to prove themselves. Not only can they attempt to do good works, they have the added challenge of demonstrating to the public that they _are_ the good guys, and that supers are not so different in that they come in good guy and bad guy.

 

They prove themselves to you, themselves, and the world at large. And at the end, they get to stop the world's first supremecist super villains!

 

Sounds good to me!

 

Duke

[Hermit]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

That's totally me too.

 

Perhaps we should start a support group..

 

"Fred... was it Frank? Well, it definitely started with an F... or was that a K..."

[tinman]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

Ok, so first, require CVK as a disad. Decide the tone before character creation and make sure everyone is onboard. And post every week on the "This week on Champions..." thread.

 

Good Luck!

 

Thanks, I will be making a big effort to make sure that everyone starts on the same page this time.

 

I'll be lucky if I write down notes on each session, much less actually post the "continuing story", but maybe...

[tinman]

Re: Wwyddiyryc?

 

I did a warm-reboot of my campaign when we switched to 5th. (Big Crisis-style summer crossover followed by a reboot only the PCs are aware of)

 

What I did

 

-Added Millenium City, San Angelo, and Vibora bay to my world. None of them are the PC's home city, but adding other "super cities" to the planet goes along way toward establishing that DC/Marvel shared world experience with only one PC group.

 

-Renamed the campaign city from Hudson to Horizen. I used a very 4 color Hudson from 4th when I started the game, mostly because it was more detailed than anything else I could find. As the game went on the city became more and more distinct and I just couldn't abide calling it Hudson anymore.

 

-Adjusted a few character building choices that had come to bother me. For example, I lowered the average Dex in the campaign by 6 for supers while keeping Viper/PRIMUS/Thugs at existing levels. As everyone dropped the same amount super on super fights stayed the same but even 500 point supers couldn't just ignore Viper. It is also possible to play a brick who isn't an olympic athelete.

 

-Added a *lot* of the CKC villians and the battle of Detroit (which was the final showdown after Day of the Destroyer, an important event in my old campaign). The new villians are alot of fun, but it's hard to slip them into established roles without a reboot. (You don't need Telios and Malachite, and Malachite was starting to draw Stewie Griffon jokes)

 

I'm a big fan of a low-DEX game as well. Not that MA and Speedsters shouldn't have the DEX to back it up, but the idea that a 20 DEX was considered pretty much minimal for a Brick always struck me as absurd.

 

I love skill levels though.