Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

[Theron]

In launching my new campaign, and trying to kick-start my gaming in general, I've taken the step of inviting new blood to the table for the first time in ages. One of the guys is nice, eager, definitely a dedicated gamer. But he's never played a supers game before, and I'm not sure he's even much of a comics reader. This feels extremely odd, as for the past few years, I've mostly played with Genre Fiends. The first character concept he pitched made references to a bunch of characters from (I think) "Metal Gear Solid", which I'm led to understand is some sort of sneak around and blow things up console game.

 

I replied by suggesting that if he wants to do a super soldier type, said character needs to be suitably four-color heroic, and EX military, since I'm running Champions, not Black Ops In Tights. I had him review the CU timeline to see if inspiration would take hold.

 

He came back, having noticed the mention of a superpowered Navy SEAL team. I fear he has a one-track mind. I suggested a concept that would allow him to play a stealthy character, but I fear I may have a Junior Commando in my group.

[Hermit]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Has he watched Spider-Man, Spider-Man II, Batman Begins, and some of the other 'recent' (okay, last few years) movies?

[Theron]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Has he watched Spider-Man' date=' Spider-Man II, Batman Begins, and some of the other 'recent' (okay, last few years) movies?[/quote']

 

That's one of the questions I plan on asking him. I know that in the past, he played a lot of Palladium's "Ninjas and Super-Spies", which I think may have influenced him overmuch.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Yeah, what Hermit said. Point him to comic book movies. There are enough decent ones out there that it can work.

 

And good luck.

[Theron]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

I think he'll be OK. Ultimately, I'm going to be the one doing most of the work on his character write-up (he really is a novice to the HERO System), so I'm hoping I can steer him in non-lethal directions.

 

In fact, I'm seriously considering devoting the first session to a character building and example combat, rather than actual gameplay.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

That's a good plan.

You can set expectations and show him how effective he can be without killing his opposition.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Ah, the joys of mixing Iron Age players in a Four-Color game.

 

I commend you for trying to get the theme of the game over on him before actually starting play. I've been in a few games where it was 'Four guys with a 20 point Code Against Killing and one guy with a 20 point Code Against Not Killing', and the first real fight turns into interparty conflict.

[st barbara]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Let him try it his way (if he really IS a kill crazy berserker !), then hit him with the legal ramifications of his actions (The government, the police and every other super in the vicinity wants him arrested, all the super criminals, and some of the non super ones, want him DEAD. No his team mates don't want ANYTHING to do with him and will not help him !) He just might get the message !

[Trebuchet]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

I'd also suggest, since you're doing his character design, that you make certain his weapons aren't particularly lethal. Give him Stun grenades, a normal 8d6 blaster, and NND or rubber bullets. Don't give him any Killing Attacks at all, except perhaps for a standard 1d6 RKA 9mm pistol which would only piss off most supervillains anyway.

 

Once the player sees his character is effective without being lethal I suspect he'll be cool with it. The starting lineup in our campaign (way back in '92) included a Navy SEAL. The character was perfectly effective even without killing attacks (indeed, he spent most of his time doing ninja-like sneaking and planning ambushes).

[assault]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Let him try it his way (if he really IS a kill crazy berserker !)' date=' [/quote']

 

The problem is that this ensures that there is a problem. It would be preferable to avoid it, if it is possible.

 

The suggestions other people could be very good for this. In particular, of course, just making sure the player has seen at least some source material - the entirely mainstream blockbuster superhero films from the last few years.

 

---

 

To sidetrack briefly: the early Superman cartoons made by Fleischer studios back in the early 40s are in the public domain now. You can download at least some for them for free from:

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=subject:%22superman%22

 

They're 8-10 minute shorts, so they aren't exactly rocket science, but they are kind of neat.

 

And their portrayal of Superman could well be playable, although, of course, his power level varies. At the very least, they suggest that any old Brick with either decent flight or *lots* of leaping could fill the role quite nicely. He's not quite ultra-mega-Superman.

 

Once again, I'm taking a look at Assault's character sheet to see what needs to be tweaked. Maybe he needs flight after all...

[Sketchpad]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

I would recommend suggesting some comics for him to look at. If it's a super-soldier that he wants, what better than some Captain America issues? If he wants a weapon, I'd actually point him to some Green Arrow issues with Arsenal in them or some Hawkeye and Nomad appearances.

[Theron]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

The problem is that this ensures that there is a problem. It would be preferable to avoid it' date=' if it is possible.[/quote']

 

Exactly. In the past, I've had to deal with these problems before. Given how little time I have for gaming, I'd rather head them off early than turn them into object lessons.

[KA.]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Sorry for quoting myself, but here is something I posted to a thread about starting a new campaign.

Some of the points apply more to a Wolverine type, but the basic idea is still sound.

If a player wants a character that does not "fit in" with the group, then what are they doing in the group?

If you get the player to come up with his own strong motivations that cause his character to want to be part of the group and play by their rules, you should not have as much in-game conflict, just good role-playing opportunities.

 

 

5) The Inevitable "Loner"

Anyone who, during the creation process, starts down the "moody psychotic loner" path, should be asked:

 

a) Why is your character on this team? What does it mean to him? Since he hates all authority figures and won't work with anyone, what in his personality is so overwhelming that he puts up with being on a team? Why did he join in the first place?

Expect this to come up in play, often.

When your character wants to stalk off into the night, there should be a hook that pulls him back before he is out the door.

What is it?

Because I am not going to run an individual campaign for you while everyone else sits around and stares at the wall for three hours.

You can have that "type" of personality, but there must be a strong reason why, even though you don't like it, you stay with the team and follow orders.

Otherwise, come up with a concept that is more of a team player.

 

Why would the other team members put up with you?

If you are such a foul-tempered, uncontrollable, individualist, why would rational people with powers of their own put up with your crap?

Are you just crusty on the outside, with a "heart of gold"?

Do you bravely throw your body in the way of attacks that might kill other team members?

Are you the guy who "will not leave a team-mate behind" even if you die in the rescue attempt?

Why weren't you kicked off the team the first time you opened your mouth?

The other players aren't going to come up with reasons to put up with you, you have to come up with reasons you are worth putting up with, and then make sure you live up to them!

 

You will find the rest of the thread here, and it contains some pretty good information:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=562514

 

KA.

[gojira]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Hey all, sorry for a bit of thread necromancy but I had a brief idea reading this.

 

One thing that should be in your favor is that the Metal Gear Solid games are about using your head. They don't blaze away with guns at everything in sight. You have to seperate out your enemies and take them one at a time. Some of the levels you can't be detected, even once, or you lose. There's a similar game called Splinter Cell.

 

As a suggestion, let him start as a Navy Seal. Then introduce him to Primus, and give him some Dex and Speed boosts. (This is all pre-play time for the character. ) Then let Primus make him a secret agent and give him a lot of gadget to further boost his abilities. I think Captain America isn't exactly right, he's much more Green Arrow except his gadgets aren't all arrows.

 

I'm not a huge fan of this sneaker genre, but I am a huge computer geek, so I know a bit about them. Snake Solid uses distractions (knocking on walls, throwing small objects) to divert guards from their regular patrols and sneak past them. He also has this thing where he hides under a relative small cardboard box. It's pretty unrealistic but fans of the series seem to like it.

 

There's also the usual assortment of crawling through air ducts, creeping in ceiling spaces, shimmiing along pipes, etc. I'd even go for a limited invisibility power, with limits on being in deep shadow or very unexpected places. Snake can also shimmy up walls if they are close together, so a bit of clinging would also be appropriate.

 

Splinter Cell uses many more gadgets. I think I remember suction cups or glue for climbing up walls, cameras to display the position of enemies, special weapons for disabling enemy cameras and traps (Hmm, shades of Theif here), remote detonators that were used to distract, not kill (indirect illusion power? plus bonus to stealth skill...), and night vision equipment. Sam Fisher (the protaganist in Splinter Cell) also has a fair number of martial arts moves that can disable or kill at his option.

 

For non-lethal levels, I don't think the characters carry much ammo. So you might limit his weapons with charges. The games also give you clear objectives, and they aren't GTA type of things where the player totally gets to choose his own path. I'd give him an agency he works for (or loose access to all the cool toys), and then use that to let him know exactly when he is not authorized to use deadly force. This might be a good way to go along with his character concept and get the player on your side.

 

Of course some missions are run and gun. This would be good for the climax, when the villian is cornered and it's time for lots of property damage. Give him some Primus agents to lead for the assult but of course have them get bogged down with agents while he pushes ahead. (Hmm, need a movement power here...)

 

 

Anyway, these are some ideas I had about geting him on your side. Good luck and I hope it all works out well.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Hey all' date=' sorry for a bit of thread necromancy but I had a brief idea reading this.[/quote']

"Thread necromancy?" It was only started two days ago! It's not dead and buried until at least a month has passed since the last post...

[Tim]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

"Thread necromancy?" It was only started two days ago! It's not dead and buried until at least a month has passed since the last post...

 

I thought thread necromancy meant it had to be at least 6 months since the last post.

[gojira]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

"Thread necromancy?" It was only started two days ago! It's not dead and buried until at least a month has passed since the last post...

Oh. Well in that case I ain't sorry for nutin'!!

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

I thought thread necromancy meant it had to be at least 6 months since the last post.

Admittedly, I just pulled the figure "a month" out of the air, because that's my personal guideline. I don't know if there's an "official" one or not.

[BlackSword]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Of course some missions are run and gun. This would be good for the climax, when the villian is cornered and it's time for lots of property damage. Give him some Primus agents to lead for the assult but of course have them get bogged down with agents while he pushes ahead. (Hmm, need a movement power here...)

That would be an interesting superpower, "Call in the Cavalry." That could lead to plenty of opportunities, they can tie down minions, damage and crowd control etc, but there are times when the Primus agents will get outgunned and may need to the superheroes to come back and help them.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

I don't think the issue is so much that he's afraid the character will strut up to the scene with a machine gun in each hand with underslung grenade launchers and unload a Utah-levelling barrage of firepower at a pursesnatcher.

 

He's trying to run a four-color 'heroes don't kill' game, and even a clever, cunning, stealthy, no-collateral-damage kill is still a kill, which is not in the flavor of the genre.

[BlackSword]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

I don't think the issue is so much that he's afraid the character will strut up to the scene with a machine gun in each hand with underslung grenade launchers and unload a Utah-levelling barrage of firepower at a pursesnatcher.

 

He's trying to run a four-color 'heroes don't kill' game, and even a clever, cunning, stealthy, no-collateral-damage kill is still a kill, which is not in the flavor of the genre.

But there is room for a clever, cunning, stealthy, no-collateral-damage incapcitation.

 

He could use a soldier's background and training, but update it to using non-lethal gadgets in order to carry out his war on crime and supercriminals. As Gojira pointed out, the games are not blood-fests, and use plenty of gadgets. Instead of focusing on the soldier aspect, focus on the gadgeteer aspect of the heroes.

[Kirby]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

I don't think the player wants to be a SEAL so that he can ruin the game and kill all his opponents, as much as the SEAL-type is what he's comfortable with. In my FtF game (sadly, we haven't seen each other since July ), one of the players has never read comics either, nor has she watched superhero cartoons. She has, however, played White Wolf games, so that's what she's comfortable with. For the game, I used the 4E versions of Jaguar from the Champions and Ocelot from Asesinos to create her a character. Now, she is a bit lethal, and I have gotten her to tone it down, and her most used phrase is "I want their spleens," but she's actually nearing 4-Color, despite all this.

 

What I wish I had done, and may still do, is let her read some comics (the few I have left are stored away), which I suggest you let this guy do, but make sure it's a story arc, not just random issues. If you have a series that has a super-soldier type, then that would be even better.

 

As an alternate to going solely the PRIMUS route, you may want to think more "Boba Fett," which the player should be able to respond to even better. According to the Star Wars RPG Core Book, this is what Boba Fett has:

 

Special Armor: Helmet contains +2 to motion & listening checks, infrared, comlink, broadband antenna/signal interceptor, targeting rangefinder. Also, he has a Jet pack, Antit-Security Blades (+2 sec sys, lockpicking), Laser Gauntlet (2d4 dmg, rng 10 m), Flamethrower gauntlet (2d6, rng 2 m), Whipcord (entangle, rng 5 m), Rocket Darts (in kneepads, 2d6 rng 1 m, maybe use these as STUN drains?), Spiked boots (1d6+3, no rng).

 

Carried, visible weapons include, Blaster Rifle, Grenade launcher (3d6/1d6, rng 30 m, fires stun grenades), Missile launcher (5d6/3d6, rng 50 m, explosive) which can be exchanged with a magnetic grappling hook & line, rng 30 m (fires straight up, of course).

 

SW Skills: Astrogate, Computer Use, Demolitions, Disable Device, Gather Info, Hide, Intimidate, KS: Law enforcement, KS: Organized Crime, Move Silently, Pilot, PS: Law officer, Read/Write Basic, Repair, Speak Basic, Survival.

 

SW Feats: Armor (L, Med & Powered), Exotic Wpn (whip), Infamy, Martial Artist, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Track, Weapon Group (blaster pistols, rifles, hvy wpns, simple wpns, vibro wpns).

 

Just using this information while giving him a SEAL background could make him a character he's comfortable to play. With easy modifications of his weapons, you could still keep him true to what he wants to play, but keep it 4-color-ish as well. Maybe his blaster rifle has 3 settings: 8d6 EB, 7d6 AF EB, 3d6 RKA (uses extra charges). Give him Flash/Bang grenades and Concussion grenades. Maybe that shotgun looking weapon he has fires entangles.

 

I like the PRIMUS connection, and maybe he worked for them for a little while and helped him understand the "killing is the last option during combat, not the first. And we don't threaten to kill when interrogating." He should be treated a bit like a SEAL that decided to go into Law Enforcement; it's not impossible to adjust. Later, he decided to proceed on his own once he'd created his own suit.

 

This character could also be the one to prowl the streets at night and hitting up street contacts for info, filling the Justice League's Batman role, just without the annoying SOB with funny ears.

 

Hope this helps.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

Short and sweet, because I'm not going to jump to conclusions about the person involved -- I agree that the best tactic is to shove some reading material in the person's general direction. Specifically, some comic books, animation and feature film stuff that reflects the sorts of campaign adventures you'll be running.

 

Another idea would be to run the first session with pre-generated characters with a number of archetypes and let the players pick which ones they wish to run, end-running the unplayable character issue in the first place. I usually have a few guest heroes floating around in case there's an unforseen friend of the gaming table who just happens to be free for a night to play. That way, you have your team already assembled and the rest of the team can be NPC's until someone comes along to pick up the gauntlet.

 

Matt "Ever-the-flexible-artful-dodger" Frisbee

[gojira]

Re: Steering A New Player Towards The Superheroic

 

But there is room for a clever, cunning, stealthy, no-collateral-damage incapcitation.

 

He could use a soldier's background and training, but update it to using non-lethal gadgets in order to carry out his war on crime and supercriminals.

That was my whole point. I hope it didn't get lost too much with the other suggestions I added.

 

I added Primus because I thought it was a neat way to integrate the character into the Champions world, but it was just a suggestion. Something to maybe get some creative juices flowing. Giving him a "commander" in game would also give the GM some control over the character, and kinda be in genre for the video games too, where the player if given objective to carry out.

 

But I don't think you should expect to have a crazed killer here. He might in fact have a really good character, basically a gritty version of Oliver's Green Arrow. Unless the player himself seems otherwise inclined, I think Theron might have an easier time with this guy. Just make sure to give him a lot of in character options besides a gun.