New to system... character ??

[Rathicus]

Hello,

 

I'm trying to figure out the most effective way to build a survivable character.

 

Should I go more power based or skill based? I realize balanced is ideal, but to start what is the most efficient use of points?

 

I'll look forward to your thoughts.

 

Thanks

[Steve Long]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Since this is a Discussion topic and not a rules question, I've moved it to the "Discussion" board so Herodom Assembled can chime in with its myriad opinions.

[Constantine]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

It really depends on the genre you are using Hero for. I'll assume Champions (superheroes) since this is the one I'm most qualified to talk about. I find that most characters I've played and looked at sink most of their points into powers and characteristics, and have some skills on the side, to balance the character a little, and give the character more of a realistic feel. I personally, don't usually spend more than 10pts on skills at the 250pt level of superhero play. Enough points to give the character some skills for role-playing (my character should know how to do this) purposes. Welcome to Hero, and welcome to the boards!!

[Rathicus]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Thanks.... I wrote that really late and clicked on the wrong window.. sorry bout that.

[Rathicus]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

As Constantine said..."It depends." It depends not only on the genre (Champions, Dark Champions, Pulp Hero, etc.) but on the sort of game your GM is going to run. To use Champions as an example:

 

If the GM is leaning more toward an Iron Age comics feel, you'd better have as good as you can get defenses, and they should be against Killing damage, and probably hardened to boot. You big attack will probably be a Killing attack, most likely with an Advantage like Armor Piercing, Penetrating, or Explosion. Skills for Intimidation, Demolitions, Combat Driving and so on a probably a must, along with some Contacts and Favors (and maybe a couple of Perks). Skills devoted to more "fluff" RPGing aspects should probably take a back seat, as will non-combat powers.

 

If the GM is leaning more Silver Age comics feel, then you should probably have some decent defenses, but only part of them need to be against Killing damage. Your big attack should not be killing, and you may in fact want to take a Multipower or Elemental control of similarly-"themed" attacks and other powers. You should probably spend the same (or a few more) points in Skills as you would Iron Age, but they should be more "fluff"-heavy: Sciences, Knowledge Skills, various Interaction Skills, and so on. That's not to say that combat-type skills are off limits, just that they should probably take a back seat to non-combat-type skills.

 

In other words, what constitutes "survivable" is going to vary from GM to GM, campaign to campaign, and theme/setting to theme/setting.

 

We could offer you some better advice if we knew what point level, genre, style, and feel your GM is aiming for.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Should I go more power based or skill based? I realize balanced is ideal' date=' but to start what is the most efficient use of points?[/quote']

 

Rathicus

 

In Hero, the GM has to set a number of benchmarks for his game, until those benchmarks are known then it is impossible to say what would be survivable and what would not.

 

For example, if the GM tells you that the average attack in the game will be 12D6 that means that the average attack will do 42 STUN damage and 12 BODY.

 

The average speed is normally about 5.

 

The GM might also indicate a benchmark for combat values - like a maximum of CV 9 with an average of 7.

 

So if Average Villain is fighting you shooting five times a round doing 42 STUN and 12 BODY then you have to be able to

 

1 - avoid getting hit all the time

2 - accept that you get hit and buy defences that prevent you taking damage

3 - accept that you get hit sometimes and buy enough defences that the STUN damage taken in a round doesn't exceed your STUN total nor BODY damage exceed your BODY total.

 

In most cases you will find that 3 is the most practical option and the GM should help you to fine tune that.

 

You fine tune your ability to do damage in the same way - working with the GM to ensure that your attacks don't completely overwhelm the expected average opposition nor are so weak that they'd never do any damage.

 

Mostly your combat comes through chracteristics and powers (with some specialised combat skills adding to and enhancing those). Most skills are there to allow you to flesh out the character and be able to do something in the game beyond hit things and move...

 

 

 

Doc

[Rathicus]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

I gotcha. My first excursion will be in a Pulp game.... going for a "Shadow" type theme.

 

Thanks for the advice.

[garou]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

It also depends on character concept - if you are thinking about a brick (strong, tough, not always bright), you might not spend much on skills. Or rather, you will, but on things like Combat Skill levels and the various martial arts abilities. If, on the other hand, you are planning on playing someone who's not too good in a fight, but useful to have around, you'll have (on average) lower characteristics and powers, but a lot more skills. In that case, you're going to want to take cover and hide a lot when combat comes.

 

As others have said, it really depends on the GM and the campaign - if you can give some information about those, you'll probably get more specific help.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

I gotcha. My first excursion will be in a Pulp game.... going for a "Shadow" type theme.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Excellent, it's a fantastic genre and one I think that Hero is particularly suited to.

 

I would suggest thinking about the background to the character that you want to play - come up with a 100-200 word description and then try to put statistics to the words (make a character).

 

If you want to post your character (with background) to the Pulp Hero forums, the excellent people there would be more than happy to critique and suggest other stuff.

 

Remember to tell them the points the GM is making available to you (benchmarks are less prominent in pulp hero games but flavour is paramount).

 

 

Doc

[prestidigitator]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Danger Sense and Defense Maneuver can be pretty good for keeping your a** alive in any genre. In a pulp style game DM 1&2 could be invaluable against all those goons.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Check out the example characters in the back of PULP HERO. That will give you a good deal of guidance as to the range of characters typical to the genre.

[Lucius]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

For a pulp style game, I'd say you definitely need skills rather than powers....there are probably lots of limits on what powers you are even allowed.

 

Assuming a base 75 points to start with, I'd say you want a DEX of 14, maybe more, and a SPeeD of 3 - less is too slow, higher only if you want a really impressive martial artist or something.

 

Spending 2 pts for 7 hexes of running can help you get away when necessary, and gives you a half-move of 4 in combat, that can be helpful.

 

Danger Sense and Defense Manuever have already been mentioned, and Luck might be useful too.

 

Make sure you get Weapon Familiarity for any weapon you want to use, and possibly some Combat Skill Levels.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

With the Ride Palindromedary Skill

[gojira]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

I gotcha. My first excursion will be in a Pulp game.... going for a "Shadow" type theme.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Welcome Valkyrie, er... Rathicus!

 

Wow, nice choice. I'm an old Champions player, and I don't even have the Pulp Hero supplement yet (I need to fix that), but I'll toss some advice your way anyway.

 

I think you will definately need Combat Luck, about six points each PD and ED. Combat luck is hardened defense. If you are going to be in firefights, which I suspect as The Shadow you will, this will be invaluable. This is basically the power to have bullets go whizing by you as your enemies make what should have been well aimed shots at you.

 

Besides this straight power, you should also look at getting a bullet proof vest and / or an bullet proof trenchcoat. Can't be too careful you know. Model these as IIF armor with an appropriate activation roll.

 

You should also try to not be shot at in the first place. Invisbility would be excellent here. Take some spicey limitations for it (requires Unkown Power Learned in the East skill roll first) and you are off and running. Don't forget ordinary skills like Stealth and Climbing.

 

You should also try to be more skilled in a hand to hand fight. The martial arts rules have changed drastically, so I'm not going to comment much here. Try to take something besides just damage though. A good combination is Grab and Throw, which might allow you to deal with heavyweights you can't out punch. Skill levels are also required here. Skill levels will allow you to do things in combat that lower skilled opponents can't match.

 

Lucius and Prestidigitator have some very good ideas. Then add some investigative skill (used to be Dectective), a fetching fedora, a brace of OAF 1d6 RKA pistols and I think you are ready for The Shadow Mk I to make his appearance.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Survivable Character?

 

Make sure you have some CSL that are flexible into DCV territory. Maybe a Stealth based bonus to your defenses to fit the shadow theme. Those would make a good start.

[Funksaw]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

I'm not sure I like the term, "survivable character" because it tends to imply that your GM's job is to make it difficult for you to survive.

 

Honestly, if your character can't handle it, a decent GM would alter the level of the opposition to match the level of the character...

 

What you want to do is sit down with your GM. See what type of character you want - you could make a combat wimp, but so long as he provides the inventions OR he provides the brainpower, he'd fit right in the party.

 

Work on what you want from your concept first. Before you worry about RKAs, OIHID, or BOHICAs, if you want a character like, say Batman, try putting a few points in stealth, maybe an "invisibility" power (He's so good at sneaking around, he -might as well be- invisible, goes the Herothink.) If you can sneak past your enemies, perhaps you don't have to worry about buying up any sort of armor at all.

 

On the other hand, maybe your character is the type that wants to face straight-up danger. What you might want to do then is consider some Armor. Maybe he's too fast to get hit - or maybe he's just lucky when it comes to bullets - you could take a damage reduction vs. bullets only to represent the cinematic ability for characters who get shot to always get flesh wounds.

 

There are a million different routes you could go with but I wouldn't worry about building a "survivable character" before you know what kind of character you want to play.

[Sean Waters]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Well, quite...start off by picking the right GM

 

I do not think there is a 'right' way to build a 'surviveable' character, but there is a right way to play one - try and avoid combat Seriously: that is where the damage gets dished out. Play a coward, or a sniper or a fast talking con-man/woman, and stay out of the line of fire. Consider other PCs as a kind of resistant defence, and never be too proud to surrender and barter all you (and your friends and family) have for life and limb.

 

I appreciate this is not a popular archetype to play, and, to be fair, I don't recall The Shadow ever squealing and running away to hide (well, if he did he did it heroically and muffled the squealing), but if you want to be alive at the end of the game this is definitely the way to go

 

One serious note: if you are playing a Shadowesque character please don't be disappointed when he doesn't live up to the image: you can do a lot of cool stuff in Pulp Hero, but, generally, you have to work pretty long and hard to get to a character of truly heroic ability. Of course EVERY character has it in them to be a hero even on their first adventure, but unless they are very lucky, they are going to start off as the sort of hero who has to struggle every step of the way.

 

Serious note number 2 (one more and we can write a song) if you want to survive any game which uses killing attacks, buy resistant defences: combat luck, powers if youa re allowed them, equipment - basically anything that will stop a bullet killing you is good. high DEX is great, luck if fine, but eventually the dice are going to go against you and that is when you need a defnce you can rely on to always be there.

 

Have fun

[Silverbullet]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

It’s been interesting to read all of this, really. Rathicus is going to be playing in my game. This will be the first continuing HERO System game I’ve run in probably 10 years (yeash!) I’m having the Characters built on the Powerful Hero level—100pts/100disads. I’ve been looking forward to this for sometime and have only recently gotten the majority of my players interested in trying something other that d20. I am still waiting on my copy of Pulp HERO to arrive but I do know most of the concepts I want to do. The games will have a fair amount of combat, of course, but the vast majority will be the Chase/thrilling location/investigation type of game—Hudson City 1935. The only difference is originally, when I ran Dark Champions with Hudson City, my Hudson City was based in Virginia, just outside if DC, so this one will be too…

 

My point to this is I do tend to run very skill need based games, so Rathicus, please make sure you don’t ignore that. If you’re worried about survivability, if you listen to these guys you’ll do just fine. The suggestions here have been nice for me to see too, as I’m trying to get used to the HERO system again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, quite...start off by picking the right GM

 

 

 

Okay, for that shot, he dies!!! Kidding:)

[Captain Obvious]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

A couple of quick rules of thumb for Heroic level characters:

 

Always buy PD and ED up to double their base level.

 

Spend about half your points on Characteristics and about half on Skills.

[ghost-angel]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

On a side note I've built several "survivable" characters that had little to no combat skill ... the basic premise being "Run around a lot, duck, try not to get hit."

[Super Squirrel]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Shadow Armor: Armor (4 PD/4 ED) (12 Active Points); IIF(Shadow Cape; -1/4), Requires Shadows in Area (-1/4), Requires a Stealth Roll (-1/2). Total Cost: 6 points.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Shadow Combat: +3 CSL with All Combat (24 Active Points); IIF(Shadow Cape; -1/4), Requires Shadows in Area (-1/4), Requires a Stealth Roll (-1/2). Total Cost: 12 points.

[Rathicus]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

I'm not sure I like the term, "survivable character" because it tends to imply that your GM's job is to make it difficult for you to survive.

 

Ok.... surviable wrong word to use.

[Lucius]

A Justice Inc Story

 

Before there was Pulp Hero, there was Justice Inc - an early Hero System game of the twenties and thirties.

 

I played a character who was a witch. Dec 14 and familiarity with knife - otherwise, no combat ability, but with some interesting skills and psychic powers.

 

One of the game villains kidnapped my character's DNPC. The other players were going to go rescue him, and because they said my character was no good in a fight, I was left behind.

 

This was a mistake. I think the reason for kidnapping my little brother in the first place was to lure them away and give the villain's henchmen a chance to kidnap my character.

 

In any case, I am working in the curiosity shop owned by another character's aunt, when a couple of trench coated oriental gentlemen come in and are very insistent that I accompany them elsewhere. It takes no great psychic gift to know this would be a bad idea. So I pick up one of the brighter baubles lying around, and ask "Have you ever seen anything quite like this? It is fascinating. Look at the way it reflects the light....look closer...."

 

Unfortunately, it is difficult to hypnotize two men at a time who already had a clear intention in mind. So that failed. They took me by the arms and were hustling me out.

 

So I picked the pocket of the one on the right. Sure enough, he had a gun in his coat pocket. I didn't even bother to draw it out - I pulled the trigger where it was. No hit roll needed.

 

The other man thought the old woman (the other character's aunt) had shot at them. He wheeled and fired, fortunately missing her - the only time either of us were in real danger. Before He could pull the trigger twice, I had the other man's gun out and pressed to the back of his head.

 

When the other player characters returned triumphantly with my little brother, they were flabbergasted to learn that "that helpless girl" had disarmed and captured two armed minions of Fu Manchu....

 

And now you know one of my favorite roleplaying stories, and one that I think has a direct bearing on the topic at hand.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

That was before I even had a palindromedary.....

[Sidume]

Re: New to system... character ??

 

Your best bet is to check with your GM and get him/her to tell you what to expect. First things first though, know your genre, then determine your schtick. With 200 pts, your going to be hard pressed to pull of all of the Shadow's trick. Concentrate on 2 or 3 and do them well.

 

Unless they are in blatant violation of your character's schtick, I'd advise every pulp hero to have the (at least) following (most of which has been already mentioned):

 

1 level Combat luck

+1" Running

Stealth

Breakfall

+1 PER

Enough defenses that an average shot from a average thug won't leave you Stunned.

A fallback skill, other than your main schtick. If you schtick is throwing knives and someone takes your knives away, you may be handicapped, but don't let that make your character useless.

 

And one or both of the below

-At least 1 skill with at least 2 more skill levels in that skill

-An ability no one else in the party has.